Grits and Shins Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 "Sacrificing" to get Manning is one thing ... bending over the table and taking it in the ass is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 horse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzkek Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I even offered the #1 pick to all the guys in the league. This guy was the only one that wanted to will and deal.   Does anyone want to let Canman know that it is said, "WHEEL and deal."  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 I talked to the guy Im doing the trade with and he said he still wants the trade. He wants Manning that bad i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Scorp Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 canman...there is no reason to void a trade based onthe stupidity of one of the owners. I would be more upset with "Chris" as he was stupid enough to give up too much for the 1st pick. Swapping first and you getting his second for your 4th would have been much more equal. Â Your team should come out of this stacked (especially in a 12 team league). Please let us know hoe the draft turns out...I want to know what Chris' master plan was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_knights_2004 Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 You gave  1.01, 4.12, 5.01  and got  1.05, 2.08, 3.05  So now you have 1.05, 2.08, 2.12, 3.01, 3.05  and he has 1.01, 4.08, 4.12, 5.01, 5.05  I think the other guy is an idiot for making this trade, but unless there is collusion it's hard to justify nixing the trade.  However, the other factor here is that you are the commissioner and you have to always appear to be above board. If the commissioner in a league is perceived to be cheating the whole league is in trouble even if the commissioner isn't cheating. It might be in the best interest of the league if you made the trade a bit more equitable as you are clearly raping the other owner.  915957[/snapback]    I agree hear. I think he was stoned. just to move up 4 spots to get manning and he dont get another pick till round 4 . I could see you getting his 1st and 2nd and maybe a 6th and him getting your 1st and 2nd. But that trade gives you such a edge over all other owners I could see why they would be upset. having said that. If he was willing to do it and it wasnt a set up. Then I would be ok with it. May not like it but I would let it go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zooty Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Hey you have Ditka in your league? Â The guy gave way too much. If you weren't involved in the trade would you say it was fair. As a commisioner, I think it was fair, stupid but fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I'm here to tell you I would not vote to veto this trade were I in that league. I'm also here to tell you that it would probably my last year in that league though. Even if the owners were able to convince me the trade was "legit" I wouldn't want to remain in a league where one owner is so willing to be raped by the commissioner. Â The guy trading down from 1.01 can try to justify this trade all he wants ... but bottom line is the owner trading down is taking advantage of another owner that appears to be mentally deficient. If the owner trading down makes picks straight off a cheat sheet he is still likely to have a pretty big advantage over the other owners in the league. Â You have said there is no colluision ... but I can't imagine ANY reason why the other owner would make this trade excect that you and he colluded to split the winnings at the end of the year. That may not be true but it looks that way. That's why it would be my last year in your league. Â BTW ... the fact that you offered up the 1st overall pick to all the other owners is totally irrelevant. They could have all offered to trade with you and you would have turned them down to trade with this idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I agree with most of the comments here, but as commish in a serious league, I would not let this trade happen (nor would it ever be proposed). Â A trade like this, due to it's high imbalance, can really hurt a league. Not just the guy getting the crappy end of the deal, but it affects everyone else too of course. Â I think the x-factor here is to what level you want your league to be. Like others have said, it's tough to veto a trade like this, but I also never would want to be in a league like this. I want tough competition - big time coaches who know what they are doing. Â It's hard to tell now, but after your draft it'll be much more clear how insane this trade is. Collusion or not, when your 7-0, you're going to have a bunch of problems. Â If I were in your league, I would certainly try to talk sense in to the Manning guy. If the trade went through, I wouldn't complain, but it'd by my last year in your league. Not because of you, but because of the level of play, and the effect it had/could have on the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 First I can't believe I said "will" and not "wheel" Thanks for all the comments on this post. There was no collusion at all. I have been the commish in this league for 2 years now and it is a stuggle to keep 12 guys playing. In 2 years we have had 6 guys come and go. Not because of problems or trades but because of lack of interest or a wife, or money etc. Every trade we have in this league someone has a fit. Ill let you know how this played out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimerc21 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) Like the others have said, if there is no collusion and both parties equally agree to do the deal, the others can suck it. Â Just a side note, if for some reason they boot you from the league, I'd like to be first in line to take your place. I'd love to make some trades with these guys. Edited August 9, 2005 by jimerc21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Update for you guys that have posted in this topic. I did some numbers from our league from last year. Here is what I found out. Based on our scoring system Manning had 490 points. S. Alexander and Edge James (both 1st round picks) had 532 COMBINED. I also checked the players that were taken in the late 2nd and early 3rd rounds and none of them COMBINED matched Manning's point total. So, based on solid numbers, Colts easy schedule this year, WR rule in effect this year again how is this trade unfair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxfactor Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Have the Manning(but nothing else) stupid guy e-mail the league and explain how this is what he agreed to. If he's stupid enough to do that, more power to ya! Happy Championship! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 OK here's the deal. I had the overall #1 pick in a 12 man redraft league basic scroing (QB does get 6 pts for a TD pass) serpentine style draft. The guy with the 5th pick wanted the #1 pick to get Manning. So, I traded him the 1st pick and he gave me his 2nd and 3rd round picks for my 4th and 5th round picks. That gives me 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. Now some of the guys in the league are saying it's an unfair trade and want to vote it down. Im the commish and I am going to let the trade go on. It's draft picks not players. I think each guy should be able to will and deal draft picks as he sees fit. I did offer the 1st pick up for a trade and no one else wanted to do it. What's your take on this trade? 915920[/snapback]    Let's just say you make out and win it all. It sucks to be commish sometimes and I've lost friends over crud like this. I'd put it to a league vote and let majority rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Misfit Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 This disturbs me. This is a "bigger pciture" issue, which is exactly what Blitz is trying to tell you. Collusion? No. But in terms of league intergrity, and your own integrity as a commish, you should not do this deal. Â You can rationalize it all you want -- just like you can rationalize adultery and alcoholism, or pretty much any other human foible. But, long term, it's a bad move. Tell the league you are turning down the trade, and they trust you for life. Rationalize why you are doing it, and no one will trust you ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Update for you guys that have posted in this topic. I did some numbers from our league from last year. Here is what I found out. Based on our scoring system Manning had 490 points. S. Alexander and Edge James (both 1st round picks) had 532 COMBINED. I also checked the players that were taken in the late 2nd and early 3rd rounds and none of them COMBINED matched Manning's point total. So, based on solid numbers, Colts easy schedule this year, WR rule in effect this year again how is this trade unfair? 917136[/snapback]     So what? What did the next QB score? If Manning scored 490 but Culpepper scored 475, McNabb scored 462, Green scored 450, Plummer scored 444 and Favre scored 425 then it would probably be better to have LT + a less QB than Manning + Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime9287 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I hope this league is free because if it is for money like mine is, I'd be raising hell! You are ripping this guy off bad. I don't care if both of you agreed or not, it is way to lopsided to make. You are going to be able to pick your QB, RB, RB, WR, WR in the first 3 rounds. You are going to have a completely stacked team. No way it should happen. Here is what I do in my league since Im commish. When a trade happens, everyone has 48 hours to vote on it. My league is 10 teams so if 5 of the 8 say it is unfair (Of course the other 2 think its fair) the trade doesnt happen. I bet if you do that, 8 of 8 will say its unfair. If you let this trade go through, you will lose your league. maybe not now, but when they see your team, they will all quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I hope this league is free because if it is for money like mine is, I'd be raising hell! You are ripping this guy off bad. I don't care if both of you agreed or not, it is way to lopsided to make. You are going to be able to pick your QB, RB, RB, WR, WR in the first 3 rounds. You are going to have a completely stacked team. No way it should happen. Here is what I do in my league since Im commish. When a trade happens, everyone has 48 hours to vote on it. My league is 10 teams so if 5 of the 8 say it is unfair (Of course the other 2 think its fair) the trade doesnt happen. I bet if you do that, 8 of 8 will say its unfair. If you let this trade go through, you will lose your league. maybe not now, but when they see your team, they will all quit. 917248[/snapback]     The problem with your approach is owners not involved in a trade will very often vote a trade as "unfair" because they think one team or another benefits and they don't want that team to benefit. Your definition of fair may not be the same as somebody else's. In addition owners often differ on how they believe players will perform. I bet very few trades happen in your league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 LISTEN TO GRITS Â Â Grits is giving you good feedback on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime9287 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 The problem with your approach is owners not involved in a trade will very often vote a trade as "unfair" because they think one team or another benefits and they don't want that team to benefit. Your definition of fair may not be the same as somebody else's. In addition owners often differ on how they believe players will perform. I bet very few trades happen in your league. 917288[/snapback]     Yeah I see what you are saying Grits. Thats why 5 out of 8 have to say its unfair. Any trade that is lop sided in our league goes through. But when it is that lop sided it won't. We have quite a few trades go through each year. My problem with this is that if it happened in my league, the entry fee is $150 and if the guy who got the (5) 1-3 round draft picks ends up winning, the league would be in uproar. Trades are supposed to be lop-sided in peoples eyes...who would make 100% fair trades?? But when it's that lop-sided, cmon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 This trade is really lopsided. The effect it will have on the league WON'T be good. You know this. You know you are tearing this guy a new one, and your team will be STACKED. Tempting, I am sure. Â As commish you are in a position where you have to take off your "I see an awesome trade and $$$ in my future" hat, and put on your. "let's keep this league real" hat. Â A trade doesn't have to be colluded or illegal to ruin a league. You wouldn't be stoned and feathered, but your coaches will walk away. Â As I said before, in a very casual league where the stakes are low and people will joke about this, it could fly. Â In a league where serious coaches came to play and gamble, you should show some self restraint and not rip this guy off. Â (I feel like this is the same situation where you have a pending trade, and your player gets hurt - you accept the trade based on the fact that your player is out for the season before the other coach can withdraw - not illegal, but pretty lame) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 so after reading this i tried to get a feel for the whole team this guy who gets manning is going to have. this was taken from the last 12 team performance mock, mind you its flex. used rounds 4.08-8.12 thinking that he will need 2 rb's nd 3 wr's from this list for starting positions. id lso like to see your team and his after the draft  thank god for 3wr's on the field alot of times...for his sake  rb's available rounds 4.08-8.12 Bennett,Michael Staley,Duce (not likely now) Suggs,Lee Henry,Travis Johnson,Larry Barlow,Kevan Toefield,Labrandon Bettis,Jerome Taylor,Fred Faulk,Marshall Williams,Ricky Duckett,T.J.  WR's 4.08-8.12 Burleson,Nate Boldin,Anquan Jackson,Darrell Ward,Hines Coles,Laveranues Clayton,Michael Smith,Jimmy Bennett,Drew Lelie,Ashley Porter,Jerry Driver,Donald Bruce,Isaac Fitzgerald,Larry Muhammad,Muhsin Evans,Lee Smith,Rod Kennison,Eddie Chambers,Chris Branch,Deion Mason,Derrick Houshmandzadeh Stokley,Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizards Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 As stated before but in this way...The Commish has to be beyond reproach in all deals...he/she should be "VERY" cautious to not lend suspicion to the position of Commish..if you do...trouble awits and probably half the league will leave next year ....if the league is a group of tight knit people who know each other and know this is typical it would fly...but it sounds like someone is ahemming and squawking about this trade...its a nice position to be in and no collusion to boot...BUT it will cost you possibly several degrees of trust by other owners..NO MATTER THE TRUTH! Not saying don't do it..just saying count the cost for the opportunity!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavinRJohnson Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I'm glad I'm not in this league. If the trade is allowed to go through, especially with the commish involved in the the trade , it's a bitter pill to swallow for the other owners. Â Canman, you sound like OJ defending this trade. Keep saying you didn't commit double murder and pretty soon you start believing it... Anyway you cut it, it's a horribly unbalanced trade that blows up the parity of the league. As the Commish, I would not allow the trade for that reason alone, collusion or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman1104 Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Another update. After reading all the post here I took some of the advice and reworked the trade. I give up the 1st overall pick and drop to 5th. I get his 2nd round and 4th round picks and he gets to keep his 3rd round pick and he gets my 6th round pick. Being the commish no matter who it was that made this deal I would allow this over the last deal with the 2nd and 3rd round picks. I think this NEW deal is fair to everyone in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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