WaterMan Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Carolina throws to FB Brad Hoover, they even lined him up as WR in the preseason, and they throw to DeShaun Foster. They don't really have a lack, because they've got what they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Burleson seems to be going first in the Drafts I've been doing this week. Something about the legacy of Minny's high powered offense still lingering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 29-397-4 over 5 games ain't bad; of course, he went 11-141-1 against GB's awful D so that tempers the enthusiasm a bit. Still, he got 26% of Pep's comp (29-113), 33% of his passing yds (397/1181), and 40% of his tds (4/10). If Pep is in the neighborhood of his 3-year averages (336-4016-27) and those ratios hold, yeah, that's a VERY nice year (84-1300-9). Edit: or simply triple his 5-game run and you get 87-1200-12. Of course, the smaller the sample size, the more likely it's skewed in some way. 958010[/snapback] I like numbers as much as the next guy - most interesting thing I got out of this post is that if you annualize CPep's numbers from the five games that Moss was out (I'm taking Chavez' numbers on faith here), it translates to 362 completions, 3,780 yards, and 32 TDs. Pretty close to CPep's 3-year average cited by Chavez above (336-4016-27), which surprised me, because my recollection without checking the numbers was that Culpepper struggled in the weeks that Moss was out, which appears not to be the case. As Chavez points out, it can be dangerous to draw conclusions on such a small sample size, but interesting all the same, I'd have expected a bigger dropoff without Moss, and quite frankly I continue to be concerned about Culpepper's numbers this coming season. He'll be solid of course, and will very likely remain the #2 FF QB, but I'm not sure it's realistic to expect him to hit those 3-year average numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 How do explain Mushin's numbers last year then. 957943[/snapback] After they lost Kris Jenkins, their defense went from 10th to 16th overall in points allowed. Hence they had to throw more. Losing Davis and Foster tipped the offense balance towards passing. I agree on that point, but by the same token I'd say Delhomme strapping the team to his back last year and keeping them in the playoff hunt until the last week should at least remove any reservations Fox may have about putting the ball in his hands in key situations. I'd say he'll split the difference on his '03 and '04 stats, which is 3500 yds and 24 tds - and given the lack of pass-catching backs and TEs in Car, the vast majority of that goes to WRs. Pep will throw the ball more, but he's got more targets at WR, RB, AND TE than Delhomme to spread it around to. 957948[/snapback] I completely agree that Fox has much more confidence in Delhomme than he did at this point a year and a half ago. Fox is a lot like Parcells and Belichick, though, in that he prefers to play a conservative run-oriented offense (as long as the defense will allow him to do so). Even with Brady, Branch, and Givens at his disposal, Belichick still gave Dillon the rock almost 350 times in 15 games last season. Plus, didn't CAR sign Mike Wahle this offseason? And, with Jenkins healthy, I see that defense more closely resembling '03 than '04 (especially with the weak NFC and the easier schedule). Nick Goings also had 45 receptions last season, so if Fox is put in a situation where he has to throw more than he'd like, either Foster or Goings will take away at least a few receptions from Smith. Of course, MIN traded for Napoleon Harris and signed Smoot and Sharper, so one might expect their defense to improve as well. Then again, that defense is still not on par with Carolina's. It'll be close, but I still like Burleson slightly over Smith. You can't really go wrong with either, though. They're both great #2 fantasy WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I like Burleson ALOT more than Smith. heck, I even like Burelson better than Porter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I like Burleson ALOT more than Smith. heck, I even like Burelson better than Porter... 959263[/snapback] Nice shot about Porter. I've got to disagree on this one. I've really payed attention to Smith this offseason just to see how he looks. I don't care if Minn. has a more balanced attack and therefor other teams can't double Burleson like they can Smith. Smith looks flat out fast and quick. The big thing is that Delhomme completely trusts him and will throw the ball his way all day. Watch Smith run a slant and see for yourself how badly he burns the CB. Smith is in for a big year this year. Note: I'm a little biased as he's my #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehb1 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 What is the fascination with Steve Smith? He is undersized and injury prone. He plays on a team that runs first and throws second. His best season was in 2003 when he had 1110 yards and 7 td's. One year wonder anyone? Remember: Patrick Jeffers in 1999 1082yrds 12td's Germane Crowell 1999 1338yrds 7td's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead116 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 What is the fascination with Steve Smith? He is undersized and injury prone. He plays on a team that runs first and throws second. His best season was in 2003 when he had 1110 yards and 7 td's. One year wonder anyone?Remember: Patrick Jeffers in 1999 1082yrds 12td's Germane Crowell 1999 1338yrds 7td's 959565[/snapback] Smith has gotten better every year and the only year he had a significant injury was last year so I really would not consider that as being injury prone. I think the panthers will be less of a run first team this year with the new trust they developed last year in Delhomme. As far as how he will do compaired to Burleson, 6 of one half dozen of the other. Side note: If you believe that Smith is injury prone davehb1 he would probably make a good match for your running backs in your keeper league. (M. Bennet, M. Moore and F. Taylor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 What is the fascination with Steve Smith? He is undersized and injury prone. He plays on a team that runs first and throws second. His best season was in 2003 when he had 1110 yards and 7 td's. One year wonder anyone?Remember: Patrick Jeffers in 1999 1082yrds 12td's Germane Crowell 1999 1338yrds 7td's 959565[/snapback] Go ahead and label him overated. Jeffer's was originally drafted by Denver and released, so he bounced around the league before having a great year in Carolina. He had a bad injury and just never came back. If you've watched Smith play at all, you'd know he's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehb1 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Side note: If you believe that Smith is injury prone davehb1 he would probably make a good match for your running backs in your keeper league. (M. Bennet, M. Moore and F. Taylor) 959587[/snapback] Ugh low blow... But still a player who misses a game or two is not injury prone, but if you miss a full season - well just look at Crowell he had a great year, missd a year cameback never to be heard from again. Same with David Boston who had a couple of good years under his belt...it happends all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conehead116 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Ugh low blow... But still a player who misses a game or two is not injury prone, but if you miss a full season - well just look at Crowell he had a great year, missd a year cameback never to be heard from again. Same with David Boston who had a couple of good years under his belt...it happends all the time. 959625[/snapback] By the way Smith has looked in preseason I believe, or at least hope, it will be a different story for him. Boston doesn't really compare because he had other issues and turned out to be just another NFL headcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Wow what is with people labeling everyone injury prone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notamomo Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Burleson over Smith by a khunt hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 But still a player who misses a game or two is not injury prone, but if you miss a full season - well just look at Crowell he had a great year, missd a year cameback never to be heard from again. Same with David Boston who had a couple of good years under his belt...it happends all the time. 959625[/snapback] That's just f*cking stupid. Look at Jerry Rice - blew out his knee and came back to thoroughly kick ass; look at TO - fractured an ankle and dominated in the SB. "Injury prone" is a guy who is always battling some minor ding and is undependable, either in production or by flat-out not starting with little notice - say, like Chris Brown or Fred Taylor previous to the past 3 years. (note - I love the fact my milestone 10,000th post starts with "that's just f*cking stupid") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 It'll be close, but I still like Burleson slightly over Smith. You can't really go wrong with either, though. They're both great #2 fantasy WRs. 959222[/snapback] Who was that in post #2 who called it a coin flip decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zia Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 funny funny funny..... lets see later how many of you have steve msith on their rosters, of those who are that high on him now. trust me, he wont be in the top 10 WRs, so you all have ALL chance to get him in every league you are in. lets see this debate after week 3 again. Burleson will have sick numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 But still a player who misses a game or two is not injury prone, but if you miss a full season - well just look at Crowell he had a great year, missd a year cameback never to be heard from again. Same with David Boston who had a couple of good years under his belt...it happends all the time. 959625[/snapback] Crowell and Jeffers had knee problems while Smith only had a broken leg. Therefore, comparing these two with Smith isn't relevent at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 funny funny funny..... lets see later how many of you have steve msith on their rosters, of those who are that high on him now. trust me, he wont be in the top 10 WRs, so you all have ALL chance to get him in every league you are in. lets see this debate after week 3 again. Burleson will have sick numbers. 960988[/snapback] Coming from a Burleson owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 (edited) funny funny funny..... lets see later how many of you have steve msith on their rosters, of those who are that high on him now. trust me, he wont be in the top 10 WRs, so you all have ALL chance to get him in every league you are in. lets see this debate after week 3 again. Burleson will have sick numbers. 960988[/snapback] Trust you. Why? Your making an absolute guess based on nothing. You make it sound like Burleson will be a top two WR after the season is over. As a matter of fact newby, how about a 1 week signline bet after week 3 numbers are in. Pure stats, not fantasy stats. Smith has more reception, or more yards, or more TD's you post a signline I give you for one week. If Burleson doesn't beat Smith in all those catagories, then your predictions are wrong to begin with. If your so confident about Burleson then let's see it. Edited September 1, 2005 by NAUgrad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop express Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 i know its been said, but I like Burleson. He has a better QB throwing him the ball and they play on turf, inside. The Vicking offense is wide ass open and will put up points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSULions Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 (edited) What is the fascination with Steve Smith? He is undersized and injury prone. He plays on a team that runs first and throws second. His best season was in 2003 when he had 1110 yards and 7 td's. One year wonder anyone?Remember: Patrick Jeffers in 1999 1082yrds 12td's Germane Crowell 1999 1338yrds 7td's 959565[/snapback] He is NOT injury prone.... he was tackled from behind and suffered a broken leg. That is not the same thing as being injury prone. 2003 was his first year as our #1 WR and he did not put up big numbers for the first 4 games (plus their bye) First 4 games 13 catches, 131 yds and 1 TD. Last 12 games 73 catches, 963 yds. and 6 TD. Delhomme was just named the starter at the beginning of 2003 and they really ran the ball most of the time to help get Jake comfortable throwing the ball. Once they started throwing the ball more ofthen Steve had very good numbers the rest of the season averaging out his last 12 weeks for a full season, would give SS about 90 - 95 catches and about 1,250 to 1,300 yds and 8 - 10 TDs. I would take those numbers all day for my #1 WR. Jake is a much better passer now and loves throwing to SS and Steve his out to prove that he is still the top WR he was previous to his injury. I would be very surprised if he does not have full season stats that would be in the ballpark of the ones that I listed above. This guy is a great receiver and just because he is small, doesn't mean he can't be a top 5 - 10 WR each year. That said I have Burleson on my one team as my #1 WR and do not have Smith on either team, but will have the privilege of watching him each home game this year. Burleson should also be very good this year and should post similar stats as Smith as I really think they are close, but I give the edge to Smith since he proved he can be the #1 guy for a team. Edited September 1, 2005 by PSULions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehb1 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 That's just f*cking stupid. Look at Jerry Rice - blew out his knee and came back to thoroughly kick ass; look at TO - fractured an ankle and dominated in the SB. "Injury prone" is a guy who is always battling some minor ding and is undependable, either in production or by flat-out not starting with little notice - say, like Chris Brown or Fred Taylor previous to the past 3 years. (note - I love the fact my milestone 10,000th post starts with "that's just f*cking stupid") 960765[/snapback] Look I don't Hate Steve Smith if I could have him on my team, I would, he would be a solid gamble. And right now in his career thats all he is, a gamble, and a good gamble at that. He has the possibility of being a solid #1. But just look at the facts, he had one good year, one. Let's see him put up one more good year before we start comparing him to Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens. Even if your just comparing injuries, your comparisons should be to equal players, not 2 future hall of famers. Now thats stupid. Look at how many great years TO had before his injury - we all knew he would come back and be great - the same thing goes for Rice. Smith had one, ONE good year 1110yds / 7tds. Smith has the possibilty of being good and a shot at being great. But Burelson has the upper hand because of his size, the system he plays in, the QB throwing the ball, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokoMotion Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 DaveHb1, how many great years does Burleson have again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 DaveHb1, how many great years does Burleson have again? 961757[/snapback] Hey now... that's not the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehb1 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 (edited) DaveHb1, how many great years does Burleson have again? 961757[/snapback] Exactly the same as Steve Smith, one...last year Burleson had these #'s 1006yds and 9td's, Thats very comparable to Smith who's best season was 1110yds and 7td's, actually some would say that his best season was better than smith's and thats playing second bannana to Randy Moss and starting the year behind Marcus Robinson. Take that + all the other reasons I've listed + the fact he's not coming off of season ending leg injury and you have a better pick than Steve Smith. I'm not making Burleson out to be the next TO or Randy Moss, just that he has more potential to have a better year than Steve Smith... Edited September 1, 2005 by davehb1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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