rbmcdonald Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Everyone seems to think that a BCS bid is a done deal for ND. Is this really true? If so it sucks. How long are college football fans going to let the f***ing bureaucrats f*** us in the a**? You just have to wonder if one of these days they are going to throw a made for TV by a bunch of rich old fat white guys that never played a down of football event, and nobody will tune in or show up. Oh well, as long as we keep tuning in and showing up, they will keep us bent over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Everyone seems to think that a BCS bid is a done deal for ND. Is this really true? If so it sucks. How long are college football fans going to let the f***ing bureaucrats f*** us in the a**? You just have to wonder if one of these days they are going to throw a made for TV by a bunch of rich old fat white guys that never played a down of football event, and nobody will tune in or show up. Oh well, as long as we keep tuning in and showing up, they will keep us bent over. 1179750[/snapback] Since when has college football NOT been about the $? Maybe in the 1800s with Harvard and Yale and leather helmets. Of course they will take a better draw team like ND over a more deserving Oregon team. Its the way of the world, my friend, and you can't expect rabid football fans to NOT watch the big bowl games in the cold of late December/early January. What else is there to do... Its too bad they made it in the last year that they get to keep it all to themselves, whereas all the conference schools share it equally. That is the worst part - $13 mil to one school that doesn't need the money. That is more than USC will have made over the last 4 BCS bowls (assuming we get to the Rose). The days of ND locking up a NBC contract all for themselves has also got to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexandernevermind Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 What, other than the actual championship game is a BIG bowl game? The championship game is the only one that truly matters, the rest is simply an exhibition game by teams who don't have the name recognition of ND or don't have an ESPN-annointed Heisman chic pick -- even if they are in fact a better football team, in a stronger conference with a more competitive schedule than either of the teams in the game that counts. Generally, they don't move more that two spots in the rankings after the bowl game than they did if they won their respective conference championship and if they do, so what? Which is sad for the kids that practice, work hard, and leave everything on the field to try to make to a game they were never going to get a shot at regardless of the season they had if they aren't the "it" team this season. I've a question, the proponents of the BCS system claim a playoff is not good for college sports and the BCS is ideal; if so, why is the same system not instituted for college basketball, baseball, and hockey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 The biggest obstacle has always been missing final exam time for those colleges that do December mid terms. Why ND? The answer is this thread: people either love or hate ND and therein lies their draw. People will tune into watch them win or hope that they lose. The payout criticism is bogus: they don't get a dime if they don't make it into a BCS appearance. It's all or nothing for them in this system and Davie and Ty brought them nothing. ND will never lose that TV contract for some time. They just reupped and I'm sure they'll re-up it again, especially after a few more years of Weis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 (edited) The payout criticism is bogus: they don't get a dime if they don't make it into a BCS appearance. It's all or nothing for them in this system and Davie and Ty brought them nothing. 1180574[/snapback] What is bogus about my criticism of them keeping the whole $ amount? You did not say I was wrong, nor add anything with the obvious statement that "they don't get a dime if they don't make it into a BCS appearance." Of course not, but do the math, assuming ND gets in this year vs. Oregon: Years of BCS system = 8 (since '98) Assume average payout/team/BSC bowl = $10 Million (this is probably low, since it is $13 mil this year, but the math is easier) # of Pac10 Teams in BCS bowls = 10 = $100mil/10 schools = $10 Mil/school total # of BCS bowl wins for Pac10 = 6 (not including this year, but USC should win!) # of BCS bowls for Notre Dame = 2 = $20 mil total # of wins for ND = 0 (lost 41-9! to Oregon St. in 2000) The same comparison could be done for the other BCS conferences too, but I'm a Pac10 homer, admittedly. In other words, if ND gets in, they will have made 2X what each of the Pac10 schools have made in all the 8 years; whereas if they do not, they will have made the same ($10 mil) as each Pac10 school. Not including that fat NBC contract, of course. And admittedly, Arizona & Cal have made their $10 mil without ever being in a BCS bowl - but what are friends for? This helps the whole conference be more competitive. Now, does ND really deserve to earn 10 X what all the other Div1A schools get if they get in, while Pac10 actually has 6 wins to ND's 0 wins, showing who deserves to be there? I don't think so, but hey, that's just my opinion... And ND could've earned a lot more if they'd been a better team lately. But perhaps I should just chill and assume that ND gives the windfall to the Church, and the money goes directly to starving children around the world. Versus whatever the righteous priests may choose to do with it (such as buying candy for young boys). Yeah, that's it. I feel better already... Edited November 29, 2005 by Coffeeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 What is bogus about my criticism of them keeping the whole $ amount? You did not say I was wrong, nor add anything with the obvious statement that "they don't get a dime if they don't make it into a BCS appearance." Of course not, but do the math..... 1180806[/snapback] Besides the obvious disengenuosness of your final statements, you've answered the question yourself: Ari has made 10 million for not even making a Bowl game ND has 2 appearances in 8 years and has twice that. Seems like its imperfect, sure but this whole system is. This part actually seems to work out decently given that it's A) not easy to make a BCS game and the added depth of conferences makes it easier to qualify for the $$$ since they have 5-7 shots per year whereas ND has one. And no one forces you to watch NBC. Change the channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 What does it really matter. It's all a popularity contest anyway. The most popular teams get the most votes and the most popular team is awarded the national championship. What a farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWPFFL BrianW Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 NBC wants Notre Dame... NBC feels it is in there financial interest to have Notre Dame home games. I'm a free market guy, so I applaud that. As soon as they feel ND is going to be a financial burden... then they'll drop them, and the Irish will be begging the Big Ten or Big East to join. I doubt that will happen very soon, since Charlie Weis seems to have the program in the right direction. ND will make the BCS based on name recognition alone. The best team they beat was 4 loss Michigan, who they were lucky to beat. They lost to bowl-less Michigan State at home, and are getting WAY too much credit for the close LOSS vs USC. Fresno State played USC close, and look what happened to them. It means nothing. Losses are losses. The 2 most deserving BCS teams are actually Ohio State and Auburn, who both would wipe the floor with Notre Dame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickL Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 NBC wants Notre Dame... NBC feels it is in there financial interest to have Notre Dame home games. I'm a free market guy, so I applaud that. As soon as they feel ND is going to be a financial burden... then they'll drop them, and the Irish will be begging the Big Ten or Big East to join. I doubt that will happen very soon, since Charlie Weis seems to have the program in the right direction. ND will make the BCS based on name recognition alone. The best team they beat was 4 loss Michigan, who they were lucky to beat. They lost to bowl-less Michigan State at home, and are getting WAY too much credit for the close LOSS vs USC. Fresno State played USC close, and look what happened to them. It means nothing. Losses are losses. The 2 most deserving BCS teams are actually Ohio State and Auburn, who both would wipe the floor with Notre Dame. 1180957[/snapback] i agree with BrianW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbmcdonald Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Since when has college football NOT been about the $? Maybe in the 1800s with Harvard and Yale and leather helmets. 1180037[/snapback] But there in lies the rub, it is NOT just about the money. If it was just about the money, they would have put in a playoff years ago. Good lord, have you seen the estimates of who much $ a Div 1A playoff would bring in? It is not about the money (they do like the money), but what it is really about, is control. The Conferences, the NCAA, the Bowl committees, they are all run by paranoid power freaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOB1 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 The only way to beat ND, or force ND to play in a conference, is to not play them. If they dont get good matchups, the Usc, tenn, Mich, then it wont take long for people to tune them out. And dont tell me, programs like tenn, Mich, and Usc need them for money, it the other way around, period. Like pointed out earlier, theyve not beaten anyone in the top 25, other than Michigan. How there ranked as high as they are is simply put, college football trying to make money.Lets see how everyone looks at ND, if there playing the Army, air force,marines of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 The only way to beat ND, or force ND to play in a conference, is to not play them.If they dont get good matchups, the Usc, tenn, Mich, then it wont take long for people to tune them out. And dont tell me, programs like tenn, Mich, and Usc need them for money, it the other way around, period. Like pointed out earlier, theyve not beaten anyone in the top 25, other than Michigan. How there ranked as high as they are is simply put, college football trying to make money.Lets see how everyone looks at ND, if there playing the Army, air force,marines of the world. 1182130[/snapback] This is about the dumbest post I've read here in a while, including theprofesor's. Purdue, Michigan and Pitt were all ranked when ND beat them, so get your facts straight. If you want to talk about RIGHT NOW, Michigan is the only team on their schedule but they barley rank 20. Quite the powerhouse Last I checked, the Marines do NOT field a football team. Finally, there is NO WAY Michigan would drop ND from the schedule for a length of time as they'd be giving up a home sellout every two years. Who could they replace them with that would cover that draw? Western Michigan? Who will "tune out" ND. Their alumni? Are you high? It's the conferences that hold the power and make the college game suffer with this bowl setup. I also find large humor in everyone talking about how weak ND's schedule is. Well this year is certainly a surprise but ask anyone during preseason when they had Mich, MSt, USC, Pitt, Tennessee & Purdue if they thought it would be so weak and no one would have thought so. They put together tough schedules and this year it broke their way. 7 Bowl teams from last year. No one has a schedule like that. It just so happens many of those teams won't go back to bowl games this year, but you can't force other teams to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOB1 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Last I checked, the Marines do NOT field a football team. Finally, there is NO WAY Michigan would drop ND from the schedule for a length of time as they'd be giving up a home sellout every two years. Who could they replace them with that would cover that draw? Western Michigan? Who will "tune out" ND. Their alumni? Are you high? 1182337[/snapback] Ok nozzle, Let me explain, #1 It was a joke the army, airforce, marines. #2, You have to be kidding me, we need Nd to sell out, I dont know what the number is, but MIchigan football games, are soldout every game, for I dont know how many years, U think the Big house, is just a name. My point about not playing ND, will force there hand to finally get off there high horse, and join a conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 What is bogus about my criticism of them keeping the whole $ amount? You did not say I was wrong, nor add anything with the obvious statement that "they don't get a dime if they don't make it into a BCS appearance." Of course not, but do the math, assuming ND gets in this year vs. Oregon: Years of BCS system = 8 (since '98) Assume average payout/team/BSC bowl = $10 Million (this is probably low, since it is $13 mil this year, but the math is easier) # of Pac10 Teams in BCS bowls = 10 = $100mil/10 schools = $10 Mil/school total # of BCS bowl wins for Pac10 = 6 (not including this year, but USC should win!) # of BCS bowls for Notre Dame = 2 = $20 mil total # of wins for ND = 0 (lost 41-9! to Oregon St. in 2000) The same comparison could be done for the other BCS conferences too, but I'm a Pac10 homer, admittedly. In other words, if ND gets in, they will have made 2X what each of the Pac10 schools have made in all the 8 years; whereas if they do not, they will have made the same ($10 mil) as each Pac10 school. Not including that fat NBC contract, of course. And admittedly, Arizona & Cal have made their $10 mil without ever being in a BCS bowl - but what are friends for? This helps the whole conference be more competitive. Now, does ND really deserve to earn 10 X what all the other Div1A schools get if they get in, while Pac10 actually has 6 wins to ND's 0 wins, showing who deserves to be there? I don't think so, but hey, that's just my opinion... And ND could've earned a lot more if they'd been a better team lately. But perhaps I should just chill and assume that ND gives the windfall to the Church, and the money goes directly to starving children around the world. Versus whatever the righteous priests may choose to do with it (such as buying candy for young boys). Yeah, that's it. I feel better already... 1180806[/snapback] Couldn't have said it better myself! And BTW Mr. Poop we watch the other channels where they play "REAL" football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 NBC wants Notre Dame... NBC feels it is in there financial interest to have Notre Dame home games. I'm a free market guy, so I applaud that. As soon as they feel ND is going to be a financial burden... then they'll drop them, and the Irish will be begging the Big Ten or Big East to join. I doubt that will happen very soon, since Charlie Weis seems to have the program in the right direction. ND will make the BCS based on name recognition alone. The best team they beat was 4 loss Michigan, who they were lucky to beat. They lost to bowl-less Michigan State at home, and are getting WAY too much credit for the close LOSS vs USC. Fresno State played USC close, and look what happened to them. It means nothing. Losses are losses. The 2 most deserving BCS teams are actually Ohio State and Auburn, who both would wipe the floor with Notre Dame. 1180957[/snapback] Amen!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 This is about the dumbest post I've read here in a while, including theprofesor's. Purdue, Michigan and Pitt were all ranked when ND beat them, so get your facts straight. If you want to talk about RIGHT NOW, Michigan is the only team on their schedule but they barley rank 20. Quite the powerhouse Last I checked, the Marines do NOT field a football team. Finally, there is NO WAY Michigan would drop ND from the schedule for a length of time as they'd be giving up a home sellout every two years. Who could they replace them with that would cover that draw? Western Michigan? Who will "tune out" ND. Their alumni? Are you high? It's the conferences that hold the power and make the college game suffer with this bowl setup. I also find large humor in everyone talking about how weak ND's schedule is. Well this year is certainly a surprise but ask anyone during preseason when they had Mich, MSt, USC, Pitt, Tennessee & Purdue if they thought it would be so weak and no one would have thought so. They put together tough schedules and this year it broke their way. 7 Bowl teams from last year. No one has a schedule like that. It just so happens many of those teams won't go back to bowl games this year, but you can't force other teams to be good. 1182337[/snapback] Purdue, Michigan and Pitt were all ranked when ND beat them, so get your facts straight. -Please enough!! All I hear you talk about is how "tough" ND schedule was in August? Who The F--- Cares, besides you. The bottom line is their schedule was not tough. In fact, it was rather weak. I don't hate ND, I just hate listening every year to ND fans whining about their schedule, their record, the coach, blah, blah, blah. The fact is ND has been mediocre, at best, over the last 15 years. And for the Pope's sake give Willingham some credit for bringing in all the studs that is making Weiss look so Fat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Ok nozzle, Let me explain, #1 It was a joke the army, airforce, marines.#2, You have to be kidding me, we need Nd to sell out, I dont know what the number is, but MIchigan football games, are soldout every game, for I dont know how many years, U think the Big house, is just a name. My point about not playing ND, will force there hand to finally get off there high horse, and join a conference. 1182442[/snapback] Scary to think what a mediocre Michigan team would have done to ND had they had their stud RB to run through that porous defense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 I'll be happy if we face Notre Dame, another Fiesta Bowl win for us Bucks O is running on all cylinders now and we should be able to win this game easily imo. Notre Dame is not a top 6 team , but their #1 in America's Media mind and that we be to our benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprofessor Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I'll be happy if we face Notre Dame, another Fiesta Bowl win for us Bucks O is running on all cylinders now and we should be able to win this game easily imo. Notre Dame is not a top 6 team , but their #1 in America's Media mind and that we be to our benefit. 1185355[/snapback] Ohio State Notre Dame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Jenkins Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 .. The 2 most deserving BCS teams are actually Ohio State and Auburn, who both would wipe the floor with Notre Dame. 1180957[/snapback] The Ohio State part of this theory will probably be tested in January... ND is not a BCS caliber team this year, but they'll get the nod. IMO the team is similar to Ty's team that got their A$$ handed to them by Oregon a few years back - they've got holes, but the schedule cooperated with them (by teams not being as good as expected), so they have the record that will get them to the BCS. I think they are a better-coached team than the one that lost to Oregon, so I think this game should be more entertaining, but ND should still be a heavy underdog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Jenkins Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Ok nozzle, Let me explain, #1 It was a joke the army, airforce, marines.#2, You have to be kidding me, we need Nd to sell out, I dont know what the number is, but MIchigan football games, are soldout every game, for I dont know how many years, U think the Big house, is just a name. My point about not playing ND, will force there hand to finally get off there high horse, and join a conference. 1182442[/snapback] It's not about the sellout - it's about regional vs national money. Michigan likes it's share of the national money it gets when it plays ND too, so they're not going to drop them (nor is anyone else who has a chance to play them). I understand the vitriol towards ND (it's part of their draw), but the fact is as long as they can avoid joining a conference they will. As an alum I applaud this on a variety of levels because it maintains their national scope. I also like the fact that they stand or fall on their season when it comes to the bowls - yes, they get the occasional BCS slot when the record merits it, but if they don't go to a bowl they get squat. If they go to the Poulan Josh Gordon-eater they probably don't get enough to cover expenses. The money issue is a red herring - it's an all or nothing proposition with ND, so there is a higher risk-reward. Also (and this may be tailgater material), ND represents America far more than any conference team could - the deal that the conferences have with the bowl system (pooling the money and splitting it equally among all) is Communist. The independant teams are the only ones out there any TRUE American would root for, because they most represent the American ideals of independence and self-reliance. George Washington would have been a ND fan... Bunch of %$#@ communists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Jenkins Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Besides the obvious disengenuosness of your final statements, you've answered the question yourself: Ari has made 10 million for not even making a Bowl game ND has 2 appearances in 8 years and has twice that. Seems like its imperfect, sure but this whole system is. This part actually seems to work out decently given that it's A) not easy to make a BCS game and the added depth of conferences makes it easier to qualify for the $$$ since they have 5-7 shots per year whereas ND has one. And no one forces you to watch NBC. Change the channel. 1180904[/snapback] I would only add to this that Pope is leaving out the lower tier bowl money that the conference teams get as well. Being in a conference is a giant insurance policy - if you suck, you can still get big money come bowl time, which keeps the Vanderbilts and Indianas from dropping the program entirely. Let's face it - every one of you would trade your school's deal for ND's if you could get it (ie - keep your rivalries, be on national TV every week, be independent, get the BCS nod over a more deserving team) there is no downside... but outside of a few schools (USC, Michigan, maybe Penn St., maybe one or two more) there is ZERO likelyhood of that happening (and there is not much greater likelyhood for the schools that I mentioned). You know, jealosy is one of the seven deadly sins... So is pride, so I think I'm done here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Jenkins Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Everyone seems to think that a BCS bid is a done deal for ND. Is this really true? If so it sucks. How long are college football fans going to let the f***ing bureaucrats f*** us in the a**? You just have to wonder if one of these days they are going to throw a made for TV by a bunch of rich old fat white guys that never played a down of football event, and nobody will tune in or show up. Oh well, as long as we keep tuning in and showing up, they will keep us bent over. 1179750[/snapback] The larger crime is that Colorado and FSU still have a fighter's chance to pull off an "Any Given Saturday" win and take a slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 If Colorado or FSU win Saturday I'll eat my hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 If Colorado or FSU win Saturday I'll eat my hat. 1186864[/snapback] I wouldn't include Colorado on that list. UT hasn't won a "BIG GAME" in over 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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