haywood Posted December 11, 2005 Author Share Posted December 11, 2005 Rex Grossman: 6 games - 85-156, 1044 yds, 3 tds, 4 ints, 11 rushes, 48 yds, 1 td 71.4 QB rating Kyle Orton (coming into today): 12 games - 165-309, 1591 yds, 9 tds, 13 ints, 20 rushes, 36 yds 60.2 QB rating Keep in mind that Rex Grossman had David Terrell as his #1 WR when he was QB, and a poor O-line, and a worse sorrounding cast all together. Not to mention that the NFC North was a much stronger division then. I'm not saying that Grossman's stats are mind blowing by any means, but he is better than Orton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marti332 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Rex Grossman: 6 games - 85-156, 1044 yds, 3 tds, 4 ints, 11 rushes, 48 yds, 1 td 71.4 QB rating Kyle Orton (coming into today): 12 games - 165-309, 1591 yds, 9 tds, 13 ints, 20 rushes, 36 yds 60.2 QB rating Keep in mind that Rex Grossman had David Terrell as his #1 WR when he was QB, and a poor O-line, and a worse sorrounding cast all together. Not to mention that the NFC North was a much stronger division then. I'm not saying that Grossman's stats are mind blowing by any means, but he is better than Orton. 1208727[/snapback] Nope, I have to disagree. Part of being "better" is... STAYING ON THE FIELD! That means not getting hurt because you hold on to the ball all day. Which is precisely what Grossman was doing (heading into a predicted 6-10 season, which is the real point to all of this) when he got hurt and Orton got the job anyway. The plain and simple FACT OF THE MATTER is that AT BEST we THINK that Grossman has more potential. Any other statement is wrong. Grossman had Moose this preseason(whom, from the above post is understood to be much better than Terrell, itself a dubious assertion) Why is this so hard to grasp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Rex Grossman: 6 games - 85-156, 1044 yds, 3 tds, 4 ints, 11 rushes, 48 yds, 1 td 71.4 QB rating Kyle Orton (coming into today): 12 games - 165-309, 1591 yds, 9 tds, 13 ints, 20 rushes, 36 yds 60.2 QB rating Keep in mind that Rex Grossman had David Terrell as his #1 WR when he was QB, and a poor O-line, and a worse sorrounding cast all together. Not to mention that the NFC North was a much stronger division then. I'm not saying that Grossman's stats are mind blowing by any means, but he is better than Orton. 1208727[/snapback] Dead on balls accurate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) Rex Grossman: 6 games - 85-156, 1044 yds, 3 tds, 4 ints, 11 rushes, 48 yds, 1 td 71.4 QB rating Kyle Orton (coming into today): 12 games - 165-309, 1591 yds, 9 tds, 13 ints, 20 rushes, 36 yds 60.2 QB rating Keep in mind that Rex Grossman had David Terrell as his #1 WR when he was QB, and a poor O-line, and a worse sorrounding cast all together. Not to mention that the NFC North was a much stronger division then. I'm not saying that Grossman's stats are mind blowing by any means, but he is better than Orton. 1208727[/snapback] I can conclude a few things from those numbers... (1) Grossman's 71.4 QB rating and 3 TDs/4 INTs were accomplished over the course of 2 3/4 seasons. Orton's 60.2 QB rating and 9 TDs/13 INTs were accomplished over the course of 3/4 of his rookie season. Grossman also hasn't played more than three games without getting hurt. A player who can't stay healthy enough to play isn't worth much. (2) Orton and Grossman both had to learn new offenses earlier this year. Therefore, Grossman doesn't have an inherent being-familiar-with-the-system advantage over Orton. Grossman also hasn't taken a snap in a game since the pre-season. So the assumption that Grossman would be able to come off the bench and play much better than Orton isn't a very good one at this point. In fact, he might be even less effective at this point. (3) Neither QB is very good. You're comparing diarrhea to a turd. Both are crap and neither are going to take the Bears very far in the playoffs. Jim Miller and Shane Matthews were arguably better than both of these guys and neither could win a playoff game. The Bears aren't going to win anything until they have a competent QB who can stay healthy. Grossman is obviously too fragile to be a long-term prospect. So unless Orton begins playing like Tommy Maddox, there's no reason to bench him in favor of Grossman. Despite what you may think, Grossman isn't much of an improvement. Edited December 11, 2005 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 This conversation/debate is over for me. You anti-Orton people are sooooo out of touch w/ reality as to what makes a decent QB, it's just not worth the cyber space. Bill, I agree w/ most of what you say, but not sure if they get rid of Glassman, but they better darn well be looking at available FA QB's. The 'D' will be around for1-2 years as it is right now,due to long contracts. A good WR in the draft and we are set. Snow, Thanks for admiring my avi, but sorry bud, Glassman is not the answer. THE END....Finis....Goodbye for now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 FWIW - I also think that Orton played a pretty decent game. No way this game falls on his shulders. 1208640[/snapback] I agree. I thought he did pretty well for a rookie who has been limited a lot this year. Pittsburgh was mad and played a good game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 This conversation/debate is over for me. You anti-Orton people are sooooo out of touch w/ reality as to what makes a decent QB, it's just not worth the cyber space. Bill, I agree w/ most of what you say, but not sure if they get rid of Glassman, but they better darn well be looking at available FA QB's. The 'D' will be around for1-2 years as it is right now,due to long contracts. A good WR in the draft and we are set. Snow, Thanks for admiring my avi, but sorry bud, Glassman is not the answer. THE END....Finis....Goodbye for now! 1208848[/snapback] Rex is the answer for the rest of this year. I don't know where all you guys are from but the sports stations in Chicago have mostly been saying this for 2-4 weeks. Orton managed and did enough and that's great but the season is over if they leave him in. You saw it today.....when the D/S.Teams didn't play up to their ability... IT's Over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mac Bears Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 I don't want a QB that at his best "didn't play too badly". It's time to get Rex in game shape before the playoffs. Orton can't lead them to anything. I've been waiting, like most others, to see what happens when they get behind and/or the defense/st doesn't score. This will happen every time with Orton. Is Rex the savior. No but compared to Orton I don't see Rex chucking the ball 10 ft. over a wrs head on a 20 yd pass. Or on 4th and 3/game throwing 3 ft. behind his reciever into the ground on a 4 yd slant. Orton may become a decent qb or back up down the road but now is not the time for him to improve. This Defense is too good to toss the season. 1208653[/snapback] I'm with you man. I mean, there is no way Grossman can step in and play any worse. There's a ton of upside and I think it's worth the risk. I know there is no way we go far with Orton. Someone will put points on us early and we won't be able to respond, just like today. As far as Orton having a good game....come on. The few nice passes that were completed were done so because of outstanding WR play. There were a lot of balls today that went 10 feet over the receiver's heads. Bears fans didn't expect too much out of this season. We've done pretty well given expectations. Now I think it's time to up the ante on offense just a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) Rex is the answer for the rest of this year. I don't know where all you guys are from but the sports stations in Chicago have mostly been saying this for 2-4 weeks. Orton managed and did enough and that's great but the season is over if they leave him in. You saw it today.....when the D/S.Teams didn't play up to their ability... IT's Over! 1208864[/snapback] RR's from near Chicago. I don't blame him for being tired of the arguing. This is getting like politics. Edited December 12, 2005 by Randall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) Bears win with Running ball and great defense ...they did it in 1985 this way and whatever success they have the rest of the this year will be done this way as well Grossman will not offer much better if anything ...Lets see how Bears bounce back after this week and see if they are pretenders or contenders ...I personally beleive they are pretenders ( especially after watching teams like the Colts and Seahawks today.. ) Edited December 11, 2005 by isleseeya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 RR's from near Chicago. I don't blame for being tired of the arguing. This is getting like politics. 1208899[/snapback] I wasn't questioning anybody just wondered if the Orton people are hearing differently in Chicago. Because I'm not seeing much love for Orton here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Rex is the answer for the rest of this year. I don't know where all you guys are from but the sports stations in Chicago have mostly been saying this for 2-4 weeks. Orton managed and did enough and that's great but the season is over if they leave him in. You saw it today.....when the D/S.Teams didn't play up to their ability... IT's Over! 1208864[/snapback] All I'll say about this is that we are all lucky that the teams that we like to follow don't cave in to the media. The media's job is to stir up sheet. Half of those guys never played the game or were even involved with the game other then to spit out controversial opinions. I don't mind if the fans want to call for Grossman but please don't let yourselves be sucked in by the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 All I'll say about this is that we are all lucky that the teams that we like to follow don't cave in to the media. The media's job is to stir up sheet. Half of those guys never played the game or were even involved with the game other then to spit out controversial opinions. I don't mind if the fans want to call for Grossman but please don't let yourselves be sucked in by the media. 1209153[/snapback] Skippy, you saved me the trouble - I was about to type that pretty much word for word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Moose... is understood to be much better than Terrell, itself a dubious assertion 1208805[/snapback] The rest of your argument is reasonable, but saying that Muhsin Muhammad is no better than David Terrell is just insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 All I'll say about this is that we are all lucky that the teams that we like to follow don't cave in to the media. The media's job is to stir up sheet. Half of those guys never played the game or were even involved with the game other then to spit out controversial opinions. I don't mind if the fans want to call for Grossman but please don't let yourselves be sucked in by the media. 1209153[/snapback] All true, but I think the question of "should Orton be replaced?" is a legit one. The thing is that I'm not sure there's a right answer; the attitude of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" certainly seems to be a reasonable enough path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mac Bears Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Bears win with Running ball and great defense ...they did it in 1985 this way and whatever success they have the rest of the this year will be done this way as well Grossman will not offer much better if anything ...Lets see how Bears bounce back after this week and see if they are pretenders or contenders ...I personally beleive they are pretenders ( especially after watching teams like the Colts and Seahawks today.. ) 1208908[/snapback] The Seahawks? Give me a break. They played San Francisco. Everyone has run over the 49ers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The Seahawks? Give me a break. They played San Francisco. Everyone has run over the 49ers. 1209182[/snapback] Right on - well, not counting St Louis in week 1, Dallas in week 3, Tampa in week 8, Chicago in wek 10, Seattle in week 11, and Arizona in week 13. But aside from them, yeah, everyone has run them over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 my point was the Bears are nowehere near the better teams in the league ..and if they can not run the ball effectively and dominate with their defense (really dominate which includes getting defensive scores ) , they are done ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Fan Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Completion percentage under 50% in his best game, and balls sailing over the heads of receivers on a regular basis. What the F are you guys watching that impresses you? The reason the running game struggled today is because Orton is not a threat with the rock in his hands. Stack the box, boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 All I'll say about this is that we are all lucky that the teams that we like to follow don't cave in to the media. The media's job is to stir up sheet. Half of those guys never played the game or were even involved with the game other then to spit out controversial opinions. I don't mind if the fans want to call for Grossman but please don't let yourselves be sucked in by the media. 1209153[/snapback] Don't paint me with that brush. I'm just saying that their are not many Orton fans out there. (For good reason). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sores Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I just wanna know if Orton shaved that mess of a beard all over his face and neck....even my 11 year old daughter commented on how ugly he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Well, without it, he looks about 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 TY, menudo. Pitt played very well on both sides of the ball. Couldn't stop the Bus, Chi def. line on their heels most of the day, and the Bear secondary played too soft. Oh....and Haywood, consider watching tennis, it's more your speed. :-P 1208632[/snapback] As a tennis player I take exception to this comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbie Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 seriously, you all are a bunch of cunning runts That something special that makes an NFL QB isn't something that can be quantified. Rex is the real deal. He just has that certain something that makes an NFL QB an NFL QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbie Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 You guys are idiots. There is a certain something that makes an NFL QB. It isn't something that can be expressed in statistics. Grossman has "it" and Orton does not. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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