Bill Swerski Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I guess the thing I wonder about the situation is if the Bears might not be better off taking that chance. I mean, Grossman might not be better (but he probably will be), and the Bears might end up losing to the Vikings, but why not take a chance that might actually get you going versus trodding a road you know can't get you there? 1210053[/snapback] Because taking the Rex Grossman road won't get them there either. Given what I've seen from Grossman over the past two seasons, I don't think that he's going to be much of an improvement over Orton. And when one considers that Grossman will be rusty for at least the first two weeks and that he has less experience in Turner's offense, it's just going to set them back. This is 2001 all over again. Neither Miller nor Matthews were any good and it didn't really matter who started... they weren't going far into the playoffs with either. The difference this year is that Orton may be a long-term prosect, while Grossman is on his way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 They need to dump Grossman in the off-season and look to pursue either Brees, or bring in someone younger to push Orton next year. The kid's got promise, more than Grossman. If they can get a pick or two for Rex then they should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 If they can get a pick or two for Rex then they should do it. 1210160[/snapback] Agreed, but I doubt that they'll be able to get much for Grossman. His trade value is pretty much nil at this point. I'd like to see them go after Dilfer, Griese, or Brad Johnson. If Orton doesn't play well early on next season, you have a legitimate starter as a backup (and a much better option than Rex). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 (edited) Agreed, but I doubt that they'll be able to get much for Grossman. His trade value is pretty much nil at this point. I'd like to see them go after Dilfer, Griese, or Brad Johnson. If Orton doesn't play well early on next season, you have a legitimate starter as a backup (and a much better option than Rex). 1210180[/snapback] Agreed. Rex is good for one thing at this point - a distraction from moving on. Case inpoint: this thread. Edited December 12, 2005 by Pope Flick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Agreed, but I doubt that they'll be able to get much for Grossman. His trade value is pretty much nil at this point. I'd like to see them go after Dilfer, Griese, or Brad Johnson. If Orton doesn't play well early on next season, you have a legitimate starter as a backup (and a much better option than Rex). 1210180[/snapback] Dilfer is close to done, Johnson will still be with the Vikes, but Griese is a much better QB than he's ever really been given a chance to be. Of the three, he'd be the most likely, I think. My preference would be Johnson, but he won't be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Thank You!!! 8 User(s) are reading this topic (3 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users) 4 Members: Jumpin Johnies, DMD, Mountaineer, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Thank You!!!8 User(s) are reading this topic (3 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users) 4 Members: Jumpin Johnies, DMD, Mountaineer, Sam 1210251[/snapback] Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The difference this year is that Orton may be a long-term prosect, while Grossman is on his way out. This is really non-sense. Grossman is not on his way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalEmpire.com Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The major flaw in the Bears past offseason was not going after Brad Johnson, to back up Grossman. 1210026[/snapback] I'll agree with that and should have included it in my open thought-process. The point is that you can't just go into camp with a QB with injury history and a 4th-rounder who really wasn't very impressive even at Purdue. I mean, how many people have lasting images of Orton single-handedly fumbling away the Big Ten title in 2004? I can't be the only one. Brad Johnson and a host of other vets should have been at least a strong target, if not a mandatory one. Because it wasn't, I really think now that the Vikes (and Johnson) will bite the Bears in the rear for not grabbing someone who could put together more than 13 points per game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The point is that you can't just go into camp with a QB with injury history and a 4th-rounder who really wasn't very impressive even at Purdue. Orton left his junior year as a Heisman Candidate for his senior year. I'd say he had to be impressive to get that kind of kudos. His senior year was not good as he spent the entire year injured, but Orton was considered a First Round Talent after his junior year. I will agree that they should have had a better backup plan. However, they stupidly thought Hutchinson could be a decent backup. that guy sucks and by the time the Bears realized it, everyone like Johnson and Warner was off the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 This is really non-sense. Grossman is not on his way out. 1210527[/snapback] Grossman cannot stay healthy, and I have 3 different injuries in 3 years to back that up. I don't want him on the team, he's a waste of space, and having him here now is diverting the Bears from staying focused on helping Orton, which should be the focus - not replacing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Grossman cannot stay healthy, and I have 3 different injuries in 3 years to back that up. I don't want him on the team, he's a waste of space, and having him here now is diverting the Bears from staying focused on helping Orton, which should be the focus - not replacing him. He got injured last year running his azz off to get a touchdown that I believe at that point put the Bears in a late lead. He has just been hit in a certain way to get injured. These are not nagging injuries, and he's not sitting out because he's a wuzz. Dude has just had a couple bad breaks. The Bears should not be focused on "helping Orton", they should be focused on winning football games. Rex and Kyle both have a place on this team in my view. Right now Kyle is the starter and I expect he will remain so, BUT... If he doesn't show marked improvement between now and when the Bears finish their season (hopefully January sometime) then expect next year to see open competition between Rex and Kyle for the starting job. And I support that. If Kyle is the best guy, that will show up. If Rex is better then that's where we should go. I'm not at all concerned with Kyle's emotional state or his confidence. I am concerned with the Bears winning football games and I hope they can do that...With Kyle or with Rex, but I think its absurd to shuffle Rex off at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 He got injured last year running his azz off to get a touchdown that I believe at that point put the Bears in a late lead. He has just been hit in a certain way to get injured. These are not nagging injuries, and he's not sitting out because he's a wuzz. Dude has just had a couple bad breaks. The Bears should not be focused on "helping Orton", they should be focused on winning football games. Rex and Kyle both have a place on this team in my view. Right now Kyle is the starter and I expect he will remain so, BUT... 1210614[/snapback] The way to win games is to support and help the current quarterback. I bought the 'couple of bad breaks' argument after the second injury. After he hit his 3rd, he is clearly injury prone. Once happenstance, twice coincidence, third time a pattern. What's worse is that every injury is to a different part of his body: finger, ankle & knee. If it was a single injury, constantly re-aggravated that is almost better since you know where to focus aid and preventative medicine on. But when it's the entire body? Move along, there is nothing to see here. Who has been successful in this league with 3 injuries like Rex has suffered through? Given his history, I'll say it again. You bench Orton and put in Grossman you are left with a worse Orton if Grossman gets hurt again because he'll have zero confidence. Grossman getting hurt is a pretty likely 'if.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The way to win games is to support and help the current quarterback. Dude, what are you talking about? Lovie has already said there is no QB change and that Orton did well Sunday. I thought the problem yesterday was a pathetic defensive display and the O let a couple chances go by the board. The sack was big when down on the 2 yard line. This team supports Kyle and so does the coach. I don't see what the problem is. Oh, you talking about the fans? Well, fans are zealots at times...but it is a bit worrisome that the offense has scored a grand total of 4 offensive TDs in 5 weeks, with two of the TDs coming on drives less than 10 yards, and another coming when only 14 yards passing were needed. Lovie isn't going to bench Orton. Some fans want change, because they see this team as a one-and-done playoff team simply because they suck passing it and Orton isn't even ranked in the top 32 (that is how many NFL teams there are by the way) in QB ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Dude, what are you talking about? Lovie has already said there is no QB change and that Orton did well Sunday. I thought the problem yesterday was a pathetic defensive display and the O let a couple chances go by the board. The sack was big when down on the 2 yard line. This team supports Kyle and so does the coach. I don't see what the problem is. Oh, you talking about the fans? Well, fans are zealots at times...but it is a bit worrisome that the offense has scored a grand total of 4 offensive TDs in 5 weeks, with two of the TDs coming on drives less than 10 yards, and another coming when only 14 yards passing were needed. Lovie isn't going to bench Orton. Some fans want change, because they see this team as a one-and-done playoff team simply because they suck passing it and Orton isn't even ranked in the top 32 (that is how many NFL teams there are by the way) in QB ratings. 1210648[/snapback] Thanks for the headup on there being 32 NFL teams. I somehow missed that. I'm glad Lovie is taking the tack he is, and I think Bears fans should stop asking for the replacement. When we were 1-3, I wouldn't have thought we'd be where we are now, and I for one am enjoying it. I'm not satisfied with mediocrity but when it's working you gotta stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I'm glad Lovie is taking the tack he is, and I think Bears fans should stop asking for the replacement. When we were 1-3, I wouldn't have thought we'd be where we are now, and I for one am enjoying it. I'm not satisfied with mediocrity but when it's working you gotta stick with it. Bad move. You have to be perceptive enough to know that you can't stick with something that is not sustainable. The White Sox (my favorite team) won the World Series this year. Heck, they should have just "stuck with it", but they know things change, they had issues of weakness and have gone out and acquired a terrific utility guy who can backup at 3rd and play CF if Anderson doesn't cut it. Then we trade a big part of our team in Aaron Rowand w/ two great arms to get a stud lefty hitter in Thome. You stand pat and you will get run over. Most people calling for Rex understand the Bears have been winning in spite of Kyle Orton and not because of him. His last minute drive against the Saints was a very bright moment for him, but otherwise he's just been sorta ... ahh, nothing. We saw yesterday this defense won't shut out high quality teams. To beat the Giants or Seahawks the Bears will need a couple tds....Kyle Orton hasn't lead us to a two TD game since the Saints game 8 weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Most people calling for Rex understand the Bears have been winning in spite of Kyle Orton and not because of him. His last minute drive against the Saints was a very bright moment for him, but otherwise he's just been sorta ... ahh, nothing. We saw yesterday this defense won't shut out high quality teams. To beat the Giants or Seahawks the Bears will need a couple tds....Kyle Orton hasn't lead us to a two TD game since the Saints game 8 weeks ago. 1210664[/snapback] Grossman comes in, he gets hurt. What's so hard to understand about that? Orton will be worse than before. Let's make him better. The trading deadline is over, and you cannot tweak a football team like you can a baseball team. Not a good analogy. We can go over this forever, but I'll keep saying the same things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Bad move. You have to be perceptive enough to know that you can't stick with something that is not sustainable. The White Sox (my favorite team) won the World Series this year. Heck, they should have just "stuck with it", but they know things change, they had issues of weakness and have gone out and acquired a terrific utility guy who can backup at 3rd and play CF if Anderson doesn't cut it. Then we trade a big part of our team in Aaron Rowand w/ two great arms to get a stud lefty hitter in Thome. 1210664[/snapback] Your analogy has one significant flaw: The talent difference between Thome and (Rowand + two unproven minor-league pitchers) is enormous. The talent difference between Orton and Grossman is minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haywood Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) Hey Swerski!!! Edited December 19, 2005 by haywood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Hey Swerski!!! 1225519[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Funny how things change over a few years. He ain't looking too bad considering the weapons he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMikeinNY Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Funny how things change over a few years. He ain't looking too bad considering the weapons he has. 3 seasons later you found this post, kudos!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menstrualgravy Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Also, watch how quickly Orton goes away again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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