Abraham for Rivers Trade Talk

[Fantasy Jesus]

The New York Post has reported that calls made to Chuck E Cheese seeking comments from Mangini or Tannenbaum were unsucccesful.

[Vet]

The guy hasn't even moved into the big office yet but he's ready to trade a battlehardend stud and one of their jewels for a highly regarded but unproven QB with CP's status really unknown.

 

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If these rumors are true, then the only thing I can think of is that they know for a fact that Pennington can't come back. Pennington would have to be in agreement that he can't play anymore, and he would have to agree to retire for the Jets to avoid taking the whole cap hit. Obviously, Pennington wouldn't want to just quit and leave ther remainder of his signing bonus on the table. He probably would feel (and I'd agree with him) that he is entitled to some cash for having sacrificed his body for the team - which he did, the guy played through a lot of pain. So, it's possible that the Jets are working with Chad behind the scenes on some type of financial agreement in exchange for him retiring from the NFL.

 

More likely, IMO, his medical status is still uncertain. And Pennington - being a relatively young guy and a very hard worker - believes he is capable of coming back at close to 100% whether it be with the Jets or another team. And he's probably saying to the team either I'm the starter or screw you - cut me and take the cap hit and I'll go play somewhere else. Either way I'm getting the cash you guaranteed. That's what I'd be saying if I was Chad.

 

So, if I was the GM - unless I know Chad can never play again - I'd work under the assumption that he is my starting QB. I'd focus on rebuilding the rest of the offense - there are a lot of holes to fix. If over the course of the next year it becomes clear that Pennington is no longer effective, then I address that issue in 2007.

 

Under either scenario, they can't really afford to sign Abraham to a long-term deal. They need that cash to fill other holes. And if they franchise him again, he'll be unhappy - he already said he'll sit out through camp if franchised. So, the way I see it their best option is to trade him. It's just a matter of what they get in return. I'd like to see them get something other than Rivers (unless Chad is indeed going to retire).

[CaptainHook]

Good point. The guy has had terrible luck.

 

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I'd say his luck is just fine. I mean, the Jets threw a ton of money at him AFTER he injured his shoulder and had major surgery on it. Not to mention he didn't have any arm strength BEFORE the injury. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

[Vet]

I'd say his luck is just fine.  I mean, the Jets threw a ton of money at him AFTER he injured his shoulder and had major surgery on it.  Not to mention he didn't have any arm strength BEFORE the injury.  They have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

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This is inaccurate.

 

They gave him the seven-year $64 million contract on September 1, 2004. He injured his shoulder two months later and had the first rotator cuff surgery in February or March of 2005. And his arm strength was adequate (but clearly not outstanding) prior to the initial shoulder injury.

[CaptainHook]

This is inaccurate.

 

They gave him the seven-year $64 million contract on September 1, 2004.  He injured his shoulder two months later and had the first rotator cuff surgery in February or March of 2005.  And his arm strength was adequate (but clearly not outstanding) prior to the initial shoulder injury.

 

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Really? I don't know why I thought that. My bad.

[Hat Trick]

This is inaccurate.

 

They gave him the seven-year $64 million contract on September 1, 2004.  He injured his shoulder two months later and had the first rotator cuff surgery in February or March of 2005.  And his arm strength was adequate (but clearly not outstanding) prior to the initial shoulder injury.

 

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I would disagree.

[Vet]

I would disagree.

 

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Show me the thread where you questioned Pennington's arm strength prior to November 2004.

 

He had a QB rating in the 90's and a winning record as a starter prior to the first rotator cuff injury, so he was getting the job done. He never had the strongest arm in the league, but it was adequate.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Vet

[Hat Trick]

Show me the thread where you questioned Pennington's arm strength prior to November 2004.

 

He had a QB rating in the 90's and a winning record as a starter prior to the first rotator cuff injury, so he was getting the job done.  He never had the strongest arm in the league, but it was adequate.

 

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okay, okay, since I may or may have not posted about his arm strength then i agree now

[Chargerz]

From the Chargers point-of-view, I think Abraham for Rivers is a BAD trade. The Chargers need help on the offensive line and in the defensive backfield WAY more than they need a defensive lineman.

 

The rumor mill in San Diego is all about the Chargers possibly giving up Rivers to the Jets for the Jets' first round pick (#4). The Chargers would then take an offensive lineman with that pick (??? Ferguson out of Virginia).

 

If that falls through and San Diego doesn't swing a deal to move up in the draft, I see them picking another offensive lineman with the 19th pick (maybe McNeal out of Auburn). Their second round pick will probably be a safety.

 

I also see San Diego signing a free agent cornerback in the off-season.

 

JMHO

[skylive5]

From the Chargers point-of-view, I think Abraham for Rivers is a BAD trade. The Chargers need help on the offensive line and in the defensive backfield WAY more than they need a defensive lineman. 

 

The rumor mill in San Diego is all about the Chargers possibly giving up Rivers to the Jets for the Jets' first round pick (#4). The Chargers would then take an offensive lineman with that pick (??? Ferguson out of Virginia).

 

If that falls through and San Diego doesn't swing a deal to move up in the draft, I see them picking another offensive lineman with the 19th pick (maybe McNeal out of Auburn). Their second round pick will probably be a safety.

 

I also see San Diego signing a free agent cornerback in the off-season.

 

JMHO

 

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Do you know the health status of Brees? Would seem to me that if it is even a tiny bit iffy they wouldn't want to get rid of Rivers would they?

[Vet]

okay, okay, since I may or may have not posted about his arm strength then i agree now

 

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I didn't mean anything against you personally. I just find it humorous how after Pennington suffers two rotator cuff injuries everyone says he never had any arm strength, that they never thought he was any good, and that the Jets were foolish to give him so much money. Especially the media.

 

The Jets were applauded when they extended Pennington's contract and gave him the money. In fact, they were criticized for not getting it done sooner. I can't find any articles dated prior to his first shoulder injury where someone said he didn't have the arm strength to be a successful NFL quarterback. And I doubt anyone here can find a thread where they said it.

 

But now everyone and his brother says "I never liked him anyway. The Jets are idiots."

 

The Jets ARE idiots. I don't dispute that. But not for signing Chad Pennington.

[PatsFanCT]

The New York Post has reported that calls made to Chuck E Cheese seeking comments from Mangini or Tannenbaum were unsucccesful.

 

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This is good stuff.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

No way Chargers would do this deal. Not a chance. They would take a huge cap hit for trading Rivers, THEN they'd have to sign Abraham to a huge contract or risk him holding out as a franchise player. All for what? A little extra pass rush? Merriman and Foley are already providing that.

 

I like rumors, just not bad ones.

[Chargerz]

Do you know the health status of Brees? Would seem to me that if it is even a tiny bit iffy they wouldn't want to get rid of Rivers would they?

 

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Brees is reportedly ahead of schedule in his rehab, but with this kind of injury you never know how it's going to turn out until he starts throwing the ball in camp.

 

Rivers is a VERY nice (albeit expensive) insurance policy to have in case Brees either re-injures his shoulder or doesn't perform as well as expected.

[Rovers]

I really think this rumor is totally groundless. With their starting QB coming off of shoulder surgery, I just can't see SD trading Rivers at all. From a Jets standpoint, it would be a gravy deal. Rivers would not hit the cap at all, in relative terms. He would be reunited with his QB coach in NY, and problem player Abraham who insists on being the highest paid DE in the league, while he isn't even top five.

 

Abraham is a man with no position on the SD 3-4 defense. The Jets tried to stand him up in 2004, and he sucked. He seems to need to be in a stance to generate any pass rush pressure.

 

As far as Pennington goes, two major shoulder surgeries, how can any team think he'll regain enough arm strength to be considered the starting QB next year? The truth is that cutting Pennington carries about the same cap hit as keeping him. There is some dead money against the cap in 2007 if he's cut now, but it's not hugh.

 

The possibilty of Rivers for the #4 makes much more sense, but why would the Chargers trade him now? Didn't they learn anything watching Pennington go down again? There is a very good chance that Brees will miss training camp, and if he comes back too early, it could be Pennington II.

 

I see the Jets taking Cutler. I also think the Jets will attempt to trade Abraham, but he would have to be signed first by the aquiring team, as a franchise tagged player, and his contract demands are reeeee-diculous. He wants a 20 mil signing bonus!

 

The wild card here is the CBA, and whether or not these owners can agree on what additional revenue sharing they will put into the pot for increasing player compensation, and this is a very complicated issue, made worse by several greedy owners on both sides of the fence. 2007 could be an uncapped year. If the Jets keep Pennington, it will be because they think there won't be a cap in 2007 to worry about.

[Fantasy Jesus]

I see the Jets taking Cutler.

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At 4th overall ?

 

So there is no need for D'Brickashaw Ferguson? Eventhough their Oline got 3 QB's killed last year?

 

The Jets taking Cutler at #4 would be dumber than trading their 1st for Doug Jolley or taking a kicker in the 2nd round.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Fantasy Jesus

[Rovers]

At 4th overall ?

 

So there is no need for D'Brickashaw Ferguson? Eventhough their Oline got 3 QB's killed last year?

 

The Jets taking Cutler at #4 would be dumber than trading their 1st for Doug Jolley or taking a kicker in the 2nd round.

 

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Ferguson is a bad fit for the Jets right now, but I would not rule him out. Adrian Jones at LT is the most solidified spot on a bad O line. The Jets are desperate for a runblocking RT, a guard, and a center to replace Mawae in 2007.

 

Cutler is generally ranked about 12th now overall, so it would be a reach. The Jets might try to trade down and hope he lands in their lap at 8, but either Detroit or Arizona could take him at 9 or 10, respectively. The Jets really need a QB they can develop as what they would hope to be a future franchise QB.

[Easy n Dirty]

I didn't mean anything against you personally.  I just find it humorous how after Pennington suffers two rotator cuff injuries everyone says he never had any arm strength, that they never thought he was any good, and that the Jets were foolish to give him so much money.  Especially the media.

 

The Jets were applauded when they extended Pennington's contract and gave him the money.  In fact, they were criticized for not getting it done sooner.  I can't find any articles dated prior to his first shoulder injury where someone said he didn't have the arm strength to be a successful NFL quarterback.  And I doubt anyone here can find a thread where they said it.

 

But now everyone and his brother says "I never liked him anyway.  The Jets are idiots."

 

The Jets ARE idiots.  I don't dispute that.  But not for signing Chad Pennington.

 

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Must confess, I have been guilty of exactly what Vet is referring to.

[Rovers]

The Jets signed Pennington the year after the freak wrist injury, and before the shoulder problems. Signing him was NOT stupid..... making him the second highest paid QB in the NFL was.

[Vet]

The Jets signed Pennington the year after the freak wrist injury, and before the shoulder problems. Signing him was NOT stupid..... making him the second highest paid QB in the NFL was.

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So was rushing him back after the first shoulder operation.

 

I realize the odds of him coming back and being effective are pretty slim, but man I hope he can some how pull it off. It would make the whole rebuilding process so much easier if he can come back and play again. Plus, he seems like a good guy.

 

Plus I already spent the dough on a Pennington replica jersey and I'd like to be able to wear it outside the house again someday.

[Giants56]

There were people calling Pennington the next Joe Montana when they signed him so I don't think you can say everyone thought the Jets were making a mistake.

I thought he was overrated but just because as I said some people were comparing him to Montana but I thought he would be solid.

The questioning of his arm strength at that time was at worst "well, he doesn't have a rocket for an arm" level.

Rushing him back I think was their big mistake especially with a capable backup in Fiedler.

As for the trade don't see it happening.

I think they sign a veteran stopgap and then hope against hope for Chad

[CaptainHook]

The Jets signed Pennington the year after the freak wrist injury, and before the shoulder problems. Signing him was NOT stupid..... making him the second highest paid QB in the NFL was.

 

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Ahh, yes. THIS was what I was thinking of when the signed him. I knew he was coming off of an injury. I thought extending his contract at that time WAS a mistake. I did think he had a slightly below average NFL arm. The timing and the amount of money they threw at him was their mistake.

[Wolverines Fan]

If Pennington can't play NYJ are f*cked anyways with his salary. Pennington is a very capable, highly regarded young NFL QB and Rivers wouldn't even be considered if CP were healthy.

 

Look, that franchise needs a QB really badly. Tehy could go the cheap route and squeeze another year out of Vinny or some other has been waiting and crossing their fingers on CP or they they can eat the cap hit and move on. I think this is the right way to go.

 

Pennington is a huge drain of resources and it doesn't matter what position he plays because he can't play (actually I don't follow his injury status very closely since he's not my FF problem, just repeating the consensus opinion). So you get somebody who's highly regarded but hasn't/won't see the field in SD. Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

Abraham is a great DL, but you can't get quality without giving up quality. Again, if you want to shop in the blue light special bin for a QB, Vinny, Fiedler and Bollinger are already there.

 

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I think Voltaire nailed it here. Penington has had shoulder surgeries on his throwing shoulder in the last two years, and he didn't have a rocket arm to begin with. I think Pennington is due a non-guaranteed $3 million bonus if he is on the roster in 2006, which likely will factor into the team's decision on what to do with him. And he signed a huge $64.2 million contract prior to the 2004 season. The Jets should cut their losses with him and take their lumps now with Rivers.

Edited February 11, 2006 by Wolverines Fan