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Brees-Rivers


theeohiostate
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If the Culpepper situation in Minnesota goes south, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Vikings go after Brees or Rivers with Fran Foley now the head of personnell.

 

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Grunge...

I'm really just commenting on your avatar. It might be just a cool pic you like, but you may be in my boat here...

 

Any parent who has sat through 5 minutes of the Wiggle's would thank their lord in Oakland :D that SOMEBODY finally created a show for kids that an adult won't want to put a bullet in their head while it's on.

 

Jack's Big Music Show is fargin great, I actually dig the music and the guitar based tunes they play. And that Little Bad Wolf episode is hillarious i fyou listen to what the Wolf says.

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Didn't see it posted , but John Clayton reported earlier that Brees will be in Detroit or Miami come September................Sounds like the Rivers era is starting this season. Brees in Miami could put them in a deep playoff run, if he's healthy of course. With Chambers, McMichael and R.Brown he's have some very nice weapons. Not LT or Gates, by any stretch, but they're very solid in their own right.

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Grunge...

I'm really just commenting on your avatar. It might be just a cool pic you like, but you may be in my boat here...

 

Any parent who has sat through 5 minutes of the Wiggle's would thank their lord in Oakland  :D  that SOMEBODY finally created a show for kids that an adult won't want to put a bullet in their head while it's on.

 

Jack's Big Music Show is fargin great, I actually dig the music and the guitar based tunes they play. And that Little Bad Wolf episode is hillarious i fyou listen to what the Wolf says.

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Yeah, i've been into Noggin the last couple of weeks with my little girl. There's a couple of threads in the tailgate about kids shows and i changed my avatar in homage to the the show. I've really only seen a couple of episodes, but the whole channel has alot of catchy tunes that get in your head, including the Moose A. Moose and Zee things... :D

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This is insane. This makes absolutely no sense. To refuse to tag Brees is rediculous. I still haven't heard a good explanation. I understand the concern about giving guaranteed money on a long-term deal but letting him go for nothing is idiotic.

Since Fouts, with the exception of Humphries, we've had nothing at QB until Brees came on two years ago. Now we're just going to start over and hope for the best when we're so close?

This may free up cap room to address other areas...the secondary and Oline come to mind.....but to throw away a proven starting QB makes me :D

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This is insane.  This makes absolutely no sense.  To refuse to tag Brees is rediculous.  I still haven't heard a good explanation.  I understand the concern about giving guaranteed money on a long-term deal but letting him go for nothing is idiotic. 

Since Fouts, with the exception of Humphries, we've had nothing at QB until Brees came on two years ago.  Now we're just going to start over and hope for the best when we're so close? 

This may free up cap room to address other areas...the secondary and Oline come to mind.....but to throw away a proven starting QB makes me  :D

 

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Not a Chargers fan bit, I agree.

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This is insane.  This makes absolutely no sense.  To refuse to tag Brees is rediculous.  I still haven't heard a good explanation.  I understand the concern about giving guaranteed money on a long-term deal but letting him go for nothing is idiotic. 

Since Fouts, with the exception of Humphries, we've had nothing at QB until Brees came on two years ago.  Now we're just going to start over and hope for the best when we're so close? 

This may free up cap room to address other areas...the secondary and Oline come to mind.....but to throw away a proven starting QB makes me  :D

 

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They must know more about his injury then their letting on, and i'm sure it'll become clearer once he's gone with regards to the reasoning for it.

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Mike and Mike this morning were really pimping Miami as Brees next destination, which they said could result in a deep PO run by the Phins. I don't think it's a bad situation for Brees-good coach in Saban, young RB in Brown, Chambers at WR and McMichael at TE. Also, down the road apiece-the Phins and Bolts meet in the PO, ah will have to wait and see, as the Phins finished 9-7 last year and may give NE fits this year-Peace PD.

Edited by PantherDave
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They must know more about his injury then their letting on, and i'm sure it'll become clearer once he's gone with regards to the reasoning for it.

 

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Which QB's in past years have had this injury? I remember hearing that they said there is no reason to say that Brees won't be at full strength.

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This is insane.  This makes absolutely no sense.  To refuse to tag Brees is rediculous.  I still haven't heard a good explanation.  I understand the concern about giving guaranteed money on a long-term deal but letting him go for nothing is idiotic. 

Since Fouts, with the exception of Humphries, we've had nothing at QB until Brees came on two years ago.  Now we're just going to start over and hope for the best when we're so close? 

This may free up cap room to address other areas...the secondary and Oline come to mind.....but to throw away a proven starting QB makes me  :D

 

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OK, as a Charger fan, let me try. :D

 

Three years ago, San Diego fans got tired of watching Brees throw “Out” patterns that were picked and went the other way for TDs. His accuracy across the middle on short and medium passes is tops in the game, but he just could not get the ball downfield or consistently hit the out.

 

The kid worked his butt off, got stronger and became a better “strength” passer. He still didn’t have the deep ball and his wide open WRs often have to stop or slow down on their deep routs. You probably saw this a couple times in the this year Colts game. They could have made it uglier on the scoreboard to match what happened on the field.

 

Now that he is rehabbing a shoulder injury, in his throwing shoulder, that causes a huge amount of strength loss (I have had this surgery), there is no way of knowing if he will EVER regain the strength that he had gained. Due to a mechanical repair (as opposed to one that can heal naturally like soft tissue) he may end up, at his best, being what he was three years ago and not last year.

 

Rivers is healthy, has excellent work ethic, been in the system for 2 years, has ALL of the tools, is bigger, faster and more athletic. He lacks game experience but already has the support and respect of the team. Roman Oben was on local gab radio the other day talking about how Rivers shreds the D in practice as well and sometimes better than Brees. There was NOT the drop-off expected when Steve Young took over for Montana, why is it a given that it will happen now? Big Ben won a Super Bowl in his second year. I would argue that Rivers experience to date is close to equivalent of one year of playing time.

 

Give Rivers an entire camp as the starter, extra work in pre-season and the first four games and see where he is. I am more optimistic than most, but don’t feel there will be much, if any drop off. Maybe I’m a homer too!

 

What would you really do as the Chargers, knowing all of this?

 

What happens if you “Franchise” Drew again, pay him $10 million and he can’t play next year? It’s a possibility. That is 10 mil that could have been spent in other areas. The contract that Brees is looking for is close to the same type of deal. He wants heavy, up-front, guaranteed money, even if he ends up never starting again. The Chargers have offered a huge money deal, heavy with incentives and roster bonuses. If Drew is so positive he will play this year at the same level as the last two, why not take a deal like that? He is, after all, damaged goods and an unknown quantity right now.

 

I don’t like what is happening at the moment to Drew. He is a great kid and wonderful for the community. I wish him the best wherever he goes, but I doubt he stays in San Diego, and I can’t blame him OR the Chargers. It is just, as they say, business!

 

I do like that we have a QB in Rivers that many say could be as good as some of the best playing today. Rivers has a solid team around him, one that is young and getting better. The system is QB friendly and he is comfortable and effective in it. The time I saw him play against Kansa City to me was exciting. He made some throws I haven’t seen in San Diego since Stan Humphries was playing.

 

What could have been disaster for the team, is turning out to be a bump in the road. That is the sign of a smart organization, one that is prepared for the future as well as today.

:D

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If Drew is so positive he will play this year at the same level as the last two, why not take a deal like that?  He is, after all, damaged goods and an unknown quantity right now.

 

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I'm thinking that he knows he will get that contract he wants out on the free agent market. Look how many teams it seems as though are in the race for Drew. The Chargers have the bargaining chip in Rivers so of course they aren't gonna offer the contract he wants. Also, if he goes back with the injury, there is no guarantee he will be the starter. As a player, wouldn't you be looking for the best contract out there?

 

The more I think of the injury, the harder it is to believe the doctors say he is gonna be back at full strength. Can he? Yeah, but he needs to work his butt off like he has the last two years.

 

I think Rivers will be a stud and I'm not as shocked as some anymore that the Chargers are letting him go.

 

Good info McBoog.

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There was NOT the drop-off expected when Steve Young took over for Montana, why is it a given that it will happen now? Big Ben won a Super Bowl in his second year. I would argue that Rivers experience to date is close to equivalent of one year of playing time.

 

 

First, I would put a bet out there that Brees is probably rehabing a bit more than you were and intensly. He probably start out stronger than you also and has the best rehab money can buy. He can, and according to what I've heard about his work ethic will come back very close if not full strength.

 

As far as Steve Young, how long did he learn sitting before he started? Didn't he start in TB a couple years before getting to the niners. I think he had past experience before he even got to SF. Big Ben? Couldn't have had a better system for a rook qb and second year qb to succeed. Not taking anything away from him but, through his entire first all he really needed to do was try not to turn the ball over the rest of the "O" would do the rest. Gave him time to mature and gain confidence. He did a great job this year, in the system.

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OK, as a Charger fan, let me try.  :D

 

Three years ago, San Diego fans got tired of watching Brees throw “Out” patterns that were picked and went the other way for TDs.  His accuracy across the middle on short and medium passes is tops in the game, but he just could not get the ball downfield or consistently hit the out.

 

The kid worked his butt off, got stronger and became a better “strength” passer.  He still didn’t have the deep ball and his wide open WRs often have to stop or slow down on their deep routs.  You probably saw this a couple times in the this year Colts game.  They could have made it uglier on the scoreboard to match what happened on the field.

 

Now that he is rehabbing a shoulder injury, in his throwing shoulder, that causes a huge amount of strength loss (I have had this surgery), there is no way of knowing if he will EVER regain the strength that he had gained.  Due to a mechanical repair (as opposed to one that can heal naturally like soft tissue) he may end up, at his best, being what he was three years ago and not last year.

 

Rivers is healthy, has excellent work ethic, been in the system for 2 years, has ALL of the tools, is bigger, faster and more athletic.  He lacks game experience but already has the support and respect of the team.  Roman Oben was on local gab radio the other day talking about how Rivers shreds the D in practice as well and sometimes better than Brees.  There was NOT the drop-off expected when Steve Young took over for Montana, why is it a given that it will happen now?  Big Ben won a Super Bowl in his second year.  I would argue that Rivers experience to date is close to equivalent of one year of playing time.

 

Give Rivers an entire camp as the starter, extra work in pre-season and the first four games and see where he is.  I am more optimistic than most, but don’t feel there will be much, if any drop off.  Maybe I’m a homer too!

 

What would you really do as the Chargers, knowing all of this?

 

What happens if you “Franchise” Drew again, pay him $10 million and he can’t play next year?  It’s a possibility.  That is 10 mil that could have been spent in other areas.  The contract that Brees is looking for is close to the same type of deal.  He wants heavy, up-front, guaranteed money, even if he ends up never starting again.  The Chargers have offered a huge money deal, heavy with incentives and roster bonuses.  If Drew is so positive he will play this year at the same level as the last two, why not take a deal like that?  He is, after all, damaged goods and an unknown quantity right now.

 

I don’t like what is happening at the moment to Drew.  He is a great kid and wonderful for the community.  I wish him the best wherever he goes, but I doubt he stays in San Diego, and I can’t blame him OR the Chargers.  It is just, as they say, business!

 

I do like that we have a QB in Rivers that many say could be as good as some of the best playing today.  Rivers has a solid team around him, one that is young and getting better.  The system is QB friendly and he is comfortable and effective in it.  The time I saw him play against Kansa City to me was exciting.  He made some throws I haven’t seen in San Diego since Stan Humphries was playing. 

 

What could have been disaster for the team, is turning out to be a bump in the road.  That is the sign of a smart organization, one that is prepared for the future as well as today.

:D

 

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Good post. makes more sense to me now.

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First, I would put a bet out there that Brees is probably rehabing a bit more than you were and intensly. He probably start out stronger than you also and has the best rehab money can buy. He can, and according to what I've heard about his work ethic will come back very close if not full strength.

 

As far as Steve Young, how long did he learn sitting before he started? Didn't he start in TB a couple years before getting to the niners. I think he had past experience before he even got to SF. Big Ben? Couldn't have had a better system for a rook qb and second year qb to succeed. Not taking anything away from him but, through his entire first all he really needed to do was try not to turn the ball over the rest of the "O" would do the rest. Gave him time to mature and gain confidence. He did a great job this year, in the system.

 

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First, Drew will NEVER be as strong as I was at my strongest, when I hurt myself and I was told that my rehab work efforts were matched by very few. Making assumptions about people you don't know is foolish/insulting.

 

What is his full strength? Is "close to full strength" what he was before the last two years when he lacked just a little bit of strenght to get him over the top? You just totally validated my point of view and confirmed that he is damaged goods and an unknown quantity.

 

You are correct about Young, but starting in TB when he did was hardley "starting" :D and he sat for a few years in SF! It was a loose example, there are no direct examples of this type of team situation than I can think of.

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First, Drew will NEVER be as strong as I was at my strongest, when I hurt myself and I was told that my rehab work efforts were matched by very few.  Making assumptions about people you don't know is foolish/insulting.

 

What is his full strength?  Is "close to full strength" what he was before the last two years when he lacked just a little bit of strenght to get him over the top?  You just totally validated my point of view and confirmed that he is damaged goods and an unknown quantity.

 

You are correct about Young, but starting in TB when he did was hardley "starting"  :D  and he sat for a few years in SF!  It was a loose example, there are no direct examples of this type of team situation than I can think of.

 

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Well, you're right about assumptions. The way I was looking at it, as people writting on a football message board, there are very few here that probably know what it's like to rehab the way an athlete does. I do, so telling someone else they don't is probably wrong. Especially not really knowing who the other person is. It may have been a foolish thing to say but, I seriously doubt you were insulted. I would bet you have a thicker skin than that. :D

 

As far as Drew is concerned, I meant very close or at full strength, when camp starts or prior to the start of the season. I think he'll probably be at full strength for the season or very shortly thereafter with no setbacks. I have read nothing different yet. And, I think a prospective team would also be fairly confident before signing him about his health. I'm sure he'll carry a pretty good price wherever he goes so they would be more than just a little carefull about his shoulder. If fans are thinking they're trying to cover up his health and shop him, I think every team in the NFL is thinking the same.

 

For Young, I meant his career, not starting there. It was experiance however.

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Which QB's in past years have had this injury? I remember hearing that they said there is no reason to say that Brees won't be at full strength.

 

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From another website (poster cstu)

 

Here are recent QB's who have torn the labrum on their throwing arm:

 

Brian Griese (2000) - came back and had a couple more decent years, but was never the same as he was during the 2000 season (19 TD/4 INT in 10 games).

 

Rich Gannon (2003) - tried coming back, but had to retire in 2004.

 

Tim Couch (Feb 2004) - trying to make a comeback but hasn't played since 2003.

 

Kelly Holcomb (2004) -was able to return week 10 of 2004 and has played fairly well for the Browns and Bills since then.

 

Anthony Wright (May 2004) - missed the entire 2004 season and did not play well in 2005.

 

Jay Fieldler (2005) - partial tear in week 3, but wasn't able to return last season

 

Chad Pennington (2004, 2005) - tore rotator cuff as well as his labrum in 2004. Reinjured his arm in 2005 after rushing back 4 months after surgery.

 

Chris Redman and Giovanni Carmazzi had torn labrums and never played again after surgery.

 

And everyone's favorite:

 

Ryan Leaf (1999) - how much his torn labrum had to do with his failure is unknown since he was already on his way to self-destructing, but it's certain that he was never able to improve after the injury.

 

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As a Chargers fan, I still think they're taking more of a risk in letting Brees go than tagging him. To speculate about his physical health is one thing....but at least we know he can play the position. It takes time to learn to become a NFL calibre QB.....just look at his first three years.

I'd rather tag him and see what happens than get into worrying about saving money under the cap for one year. This team is ready to go NOW. While no one can say for sure that Brees will be healthy this year, its a much better gamble than Rivers being ready to lead a good team out of the gate. And I'm very hopeful with regard to Rivers.

Thing is, I've followed this team for 25 years, and I've seen what top prospect QBs can turn into around the league. You don't cut a proven QB like Brees loose until you KNOW FOR SURE that he's damaged goods.

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...This team is ready to go NOW... 

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I too bleed Blue and Gold buddy, but I am not as sure as so many others that this team is “ready to go NOW”!

 

They are one of the better teams in The League, but I think that the loss of Hudson Huock, last years O-line coach, showed the biggest weakness on the team. They are now in the mode of trying to find the guy that can coach this group, and Mauck was not the answer. The line, without the leadership of Oben, struggled greatly, and there was obviously no leadership on the bench, i.e. coach that is respected.

 

The secondary, especially at safety needs to be addressed as well. While we are at it, another #1 WR would be nice. Yes, there are some good developmental players on the squad and Keenan is an awesome leader, as is Lofton their coach, but I would like to see a quality WR that can reliably stretch the field.

 

Oh, by the way, how about an injured QB that won’t be ready until late August, missing most of camp and an untested, but talented young back-up? Today’s Huddle update itself says:

 

It looks like things are going well but don't expect him to be ready for game action until sometime in late August at the earliest.”

 

At the very least, this means Rivers runs with the first team throughout ALL OF CAMP. You really think the team will be better off starting a weakened and rusty Brees? You think he is worth a $10 mil flyer as a backup, one that might not ever play if Rivers is successful? Not worth the money when you can greatly strengthen your team NOW in other areas.

 

Sure, every team has some holes. But I would rather spend the $10 mil to fill the other spots and let Rivers have a “sweet ride” to drive around while he learns the nuances of his machine, than to gamble on spending the money on a guy that might not ever play at the level he used to! Fix it now and win now, (ala the Steelers)!

 

You can’t guarantee that either Rivers OR Brees will be able to be the deciding factor one way or another. I hate to say it, but let Brees go and spend the money to fill the holes around the QB position.

 

Buy me some monster O-line players and pound the ball with LT, one of the best RBs the game has ever seen. That alone will make it easier for either of these guys to be successful and take my Bolts deep into post season.

 

Just MHO :D

Edited by McBoog
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I too bleed Blue and Gold buddy, but I am not as sure as so many others that this team is “ready to go NOW”!

 

They are one of the better teams in The League, but I think that the loss of Hudson Huock, last years O-line coach, showed the biggest weakness on the team.  They are now in the mode of trying to find the guy that can coach this group, and Mauck was not the answer.  The line, without the leadership of Oben, struggled greatly, and there was obviously no leadership on the bench, i.e. coach that is respected.

 

The secondary, especially at safety needs to be addressed as well.  While we are at it, another #1 WR would be nice.  Yes, there are some good developmental players on the squad and Keenan is an awesome leader, as is Lofton their coach, but I would like to see a quality WR that can reliably stretch the field.

 

Oh, by the way, how about an injured QB that won’t be ready until late August, missing most of camp and an untested, but talented young back-up?  Today’s Huddle update itself says:

 

It looks like things are going well but don't expect him to be ready for game action until sometime in late August at the earliest.”

 

At the very least, this means Rivers runs with the first team throughout ALL OF CAMP. You really think the team will be better off starting a weakened and rusty Brees? You think he is worth a $10 mil flyer as a backup, one that might not ever play if Rivers is successful? Not worth the money when you can greatly strengthen your team NOW in other areas.

 

Sure, every team has some holes. But I would rather spend the $10 mil to fill the other spots and let Rivers have a “sweet ride” to drive around while he learns the nuances of his machine, than to gamble on spending the money on a guy that might not ever play at the level he used to! Fix it now and win now, (ala the Steelers)!

 

You can’t guarantee that either Rivers OR Brees will be able to be the deciding factor one way or another. I hate to say it, but let Brees go and spend the money to fill the holes around the QB position.

 

Buy me some monster O-line players and pound the ball with LT, one of the best RBs the game has ever seen. That alone will make it easier for either of these guys to be successful and take my Bolts deep into post season.

 

Just MHO :D

 

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i don't disagree with most of this. but check back with me eight games into the season when we're .500 or worse and Brees is tossing the ball around for the Cowboys atop the NFC East. i'm just not a fan of throwing away the present for the fantasy of a greater future.

there's a reason why so many teams will want Brees.....the same reason why we should tag him for one more year.

 

either way, i'm 100% behind Rivers if it comes to that. what other choice is there?

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