You're the Texans organization..

[godtomsatan]

This team is a good offensive line and a good playmaker on defense away from contending.

 

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4, 5, 7, 2. Those are the win totals under Capers the last four season.

 

This team is nowhere near contending.

[Goopster24]

It's quite simple really - the NFL is not only a sport but also business.  From that perspective the Texans will need to draft Bush or Young to put a face on the franchise and appease the fans.  Ferguson may be as good as advertised but is undoubtedly less marketable than Bush/Young and what if he turns out to be, say, Robert Gallery, who was very highly touted just a couple years ago as just a notch below a Boseli (and may still turn out to be an All-Pro, but I wanted to give a recent example).  That will not sit well with fans. 

 

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Not doubting the business point entirely. That said though, one player does not make a franchise better. This isn't basketball. As much as people in Texas would love to see Reggie Bush playing for their team, how much would like to see another horrible and dissappointing season? New schemes with coaches can go only so far. Offensive lines are built through the draft. Most of the solid offensive linemen in the league were high draft picks.

 

I think the best way to go for them in this predicament when considering everything is to select Bush - not only can he team with DD and keep them both fresh and healthy, but he can also line up or roll out as a receiver and take a defender with him there and relieve some of the pressure on either Carr or on Andre Johnson, which Corey Bradford and Jabar Gaffney clearly have never nor never will accomplish.  This gives them alot more flexibility and gives them that extra weapon on offense that they clearly lack, appeases the fans (and makes more sense than Vince Young unless someone offers up a boatload for Carr)

 

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Another weapon on offensive would be fun but Davis has proved he is not good but great when healthy. Wells as a backup isn't awful. Andre Johnson can be a top five WR in this league. Carr doesn't need another weapon to take pressure off, he needs a line.

 

I don't see what the confusion is all about: without a line, you have nothing. Simple.

[Goopster24]

4, 5, 7, 2. Those are the win totals under Capers the last four season.

 

This team is nowhere near contending.

 

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This is the NFL; any team can contend.

[cph]

Not doubting the business point entirely. That said though, one player does not make a franchise better. This isn't basketball. As much as people in Texas would love to see Reggie Bush playing for their team, how much would like to see another horrible and dissappointing season? New schemes with coaches can go only so far. Offensive lines are built through the draft. Most of the solid offensive linemen in the league were high draft picks.

Another weapon on offensive would be fun but Davis has proved he is not good but great when healthy. Wells as a backup isn't awful. Andre Johnson can be a top five WR in this league. Carr doesn't need another weapon to take pressure off, he needs a line.

 

I don't see what the confusion is all about: without a line, you have nothing. Simple.

 

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No confusion here, they clearly need better pass blocking schemes and players ... however, this can be done with their cap room and later picks while also making the pick that gives them a weapon on offense that doesn't come along too often AND appeases their fan base. Seems good to me when considering all aspects of it.

 

As far as godtomsatan's comments, yes they have won only 4, 5, 7, and 2 games the last four years. However, in each of those years they lost a number of close games at the end and were a sneaky pick for playoff contender last year before backtracking bigtime. I don't think they are as far off as some people think considering they have some solid players and should be able to attract some good free agents with their cap room and their facilities, their biggest obstacle in turning things around IMO is the division they play in.

Edited February 23, 2006 by cph

[Goopster24]

No confusion here, they clearly need better pass blocking schemes and players ... however, this can be done with their cap room and later picks while also making the pick that gives them a weapon on offense that doesn't come along too often AND appeases their fan base.  Seems good to me when considering all aspects of it.

 

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That's exactly what I'm talking about. A GM in the NFL can't draft for their franchise thinking, "this guy doesn't come along that often, we needa grab him while we have the chance." It's not helping the team as a whole. It's stunting their growth. Load up on picks and get help for more than one area. There is no guarantee in free agency. At least you have some control when it comes to the draft.

Edited February 23, 2006 by Goopster24

[godtomsatan]

This is the NFL; any team can contend.

 

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They can, but most don't.

[Goopster24]

They can, but most don't.

 

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No doubt there. Just give a team chance though, especially when they get the No. 1 pick and a new coaching staff.

[cph]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. A GM in the NFL can't draft for their franchise thinking, "this guy doesn't come along that often, we needa grab him while we have the chance." It's not helping the team as a whole. It's stunting their growth. Load up on picks and get help for more than one area. There is no guarantee in free agency. At least you have some control when it comes to the draft.

 

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I outlined the ways it could help the team as a whole in my first post (keep him and DD fresh, open things up and take pressure off Carr and take away some of the double teams on AJ) IN ADDITION to justifying the pick as a business decision. I don't think any other moves accomplishes all those tasks, it really just comes down to your opinion of how you want to build your team. Considering the current circumstances, if I were GM I think I would take my chances with a proven veteran like Bentley than gambling in the draft considering I could ALSO add an offensive weapon that opens things up and appeases the fans. Bust with Ferguson and fans will rip them a new one. Now IF there wasn't some good OL out there this year like Bentley and IF there wasnt supposedly a deep draft and IF I had a guarantee that Ferguson wouldn't be a Gallery, Mike Williams, Leonard Davis etc and IF I knew the problem wasn't the old schemes ... well that's just too many if's for me, I'll take Bush and address the OL thru free agency and later in the draft, and I think I've more than at least justified why Bush is a good option for them.

[godtomsatan]

No doubt there. Just give a team chance though, especially when they get the No. 1 pick and a new coaching staff.

 

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There's nothing there to indicate the Texans are near any corner-turning. #1 pick, new coach, or otherwise. In 2005, 5 teams scored less points than the Texans. 0 teams gave up more. There are systematic problems with the way the organization has been run up to this point. The guys in charge of that didn't get the plug pulled on them.

 

They need to bite the bullet and trade the pick for the motherload. Maybe Kubiak is a splash there, but it seems that this club's weaknesses have been apparent for multiple years without anyone doing anything to address them.

[Goopster24]

I outlined the ways it could help the team as a whole in my first post (keep him and DD fresh, open things up and take pressure off Carr and take away some of the double teams on AJ) IN ADDITION to justifying the pick as a business decision.  I don't think any other moves accomplishes all those tasks, it really just comes down to your opinion of how you want to build your team.  Considering the current circumstances, if I were GM I think I would take my chances with a proven veteran like Bentley than gambling in the draft considering I could ALSO add an offensive weapon that opens things up and appeases the fans.  Bust with Ferguson and fans will rip them a new one.  Now IF there wasn't some good OL out there this year like Bentley and IF there wasnt supposedly a deep draft and IF I had a guarantee that Ferguson wouldn't be a Gallery, Mike Williams, Leonard Davis etc and IF I knew the problem wasn't the old schemes ... well that's just too many if's for me, I'll take Bush and address the OL thru free agency and later in the draft, and I think I've more than at least justified why Bush is a good option for them.

 

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You are making it seem like drafting Bush is a foolproof plan. Bush has just as good of a chance to bust as anyone else.

[Goopster24]

There's nothing there to indicate the Texans are near any corner-turning. #1 pick, new coach, or otherwise. In 2005, 5 teams scored less points than the Texans. 0 teams gave up more. There are systematic problems with the way the organization has been run up to this point. The guys in charge of that didn't get the plug pulled on them.

 

They need to bite the bullet and trade the pick for the motherload. Maybe Kubiak is a splash there, but it seems that this club's weaknesses have been apparent for multiple years without anyone doing anything to address them.

 

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I don't doubt anything you say. What I am saying though is that this is Texans team which easily could have had several more victories this season. If they weren't the No. 1 pick this year, we'd be talking very differently about them. They have some playmakers and some good young talent. Some veterans can only help.

[cph]

You are making it seem like drafting Bush is a foolproof plan. Bush has just as good of a chance to bust as anyone else.

 

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By no means am I saying selecting Bush is a foolproof plan, risk is always present. I am saying selecting him seems to be a very good selection all things considered (fans/business side, their cap room and the available OL in free agency, plus the depth of draft at OL) and seems to accomplish the most (opens things open on offense) with the LEAST risk. Really, when considering all aspects, I just don't see a better risk/reward payoff than they get by selecting Bush.

[Goopster24]

By no means am I saying selecting Bush is a foolproof plan, risk is always present.  I am saying selecting him seems to be a very good selection all things considered (fans/business side, their cap room and the available OL in free agency, plus the depth of draft at OL) and seems to accomplish the most (opens things open on offense) with the LEAST risk.  Really, when considering all aspects, I just don't see a better risk/reward payoff than they get by selecting Bush.

 

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Good discussion here.

 

First off, I do think Bush will be a stud in the NFL. That said though, again, I think the Texans need to load up. When you are talking about risk/reward payoff, how is it not a reward to get numerous picks? If the Texans were to get several first and second round picks, they could get everything they need, including a playmaker on offense and offensive linemen.

 

One thing we have also failed to consider is that if they do draft Bush, they will still have Davis. Like you said, having both would keep them fresh and that would no doubt be of great use to them. But what do you in a year or two? I would imagine Davis' value would diminish and you probably wouldn't trade Bush. You'd be stuck with two huge contracts.

[cph]

Good discussion here.

 

First off, I do think Bush will be a stud in the NFL. That said though, again, I think the Texans need to load up. When you are talking about risk/reward payoff, how is it not a reward to get numerous picks? If the Texans were to get several first and second round picks, they could get everything they need, including a playmaker on offense and offensive linemen.

 

One thing we have also failed to consider is that if they do draft Bush, they will still have Davis. Like you said, having both would keep them fresh and that would no doubt be of great use to them. But what do you in a year or two? I would imagine Davis' value would diminish and you probably wouldn't trade Bush. You'd be stuck with two huge contracts.

 

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Well, as far as the risk/reward ... I also think Bush will be a stud and is clearly the most dynamic threat coming out of the draft, especially since he is bulking up this offseason (has put on about 10 lbs muscle and is up to 207 I last heard) with alot to prove to doubters who say he might not be durable enough, which IMO only makes him more dangerous. Trading down just increases the risk to me, there's no guarantee any of the others guy pan out either ... and honestly there doesn't seem to be any real dynamic wide receivers in this draft, so I'm not sure they could trade down and get what they need in that regard. I think Bush serves them better in that capacity (plus again is marketable) than any of the incoming crop of WRs would - if there was some more dynamic options other than this draft loaded with OL and LB, then it would be more sensible but I don't see it. I don't see them getting a bevy of 1st and 2nd round picks either, but if someone offered them a Herschel Walker type deal then yeah I would listen, otherwise I don't see them gaining by trading down since Bush seems like the most dynamic playmaker and they can get OL in the ways already discussed and thus Bush is the safest pick and one with highest risk/reward payout all things considered.

 

As far as having DD, yes, I would consider trading him next year if Bush proves capable. I do not think his value will necessarily take a hit unless he is injured (not too unlikely given his history, in which case its good they selected Bush). Even top notch RBs havent garnered that high a draft pick in recent years so I don't think his trade value will drop significantly by just splitting time with Bush. If they work well together you keep them both, they are in good cap shape (plus 2007 could be uncapped, in which case McNair has deep pockets), or you unload DD for a mid-round pick having served his purpose as a safety net (something they don't have for Ferguson). Seems kind of cold to DD, but again, it's a business.

[Goopster24]

I think the main thing is that if they are gonna trade the pick, they need to get a lot of picks in return. I could see teams not offering that much in return. It doesn't even seem like many teams are reaching out. In that case, I guess they would be forced to draft Bush.

 

There are several offensive linemen in this draft, specifically first round which I would love to get my hands on. Ferguson and the guy from Auburn are just two of them. If they got two solid, franchise OL, I wouldn't be complaining at all.

[cph]

I think the main thing is that if they are gonna trade the pick, they need to get a lot of picks in return. I could see teams not offering that much in return. It doesn't even seem like many teams are reaching out. In that case, I guess they would be forced to draft Bush.

 

There are several offensive linemen in this draft, specifically first round which I would love to get my hands on. Ferguson and the guy from Auburn are just two of them. If they got two solid, franchise OL, I wouldn't be complaining at all.

 

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Yeah, I really just don't see them receiving a boatload of picks allowing them to fill any positions that they couldn't fill by other means, given the nature of the players in this draft (deep in OL and LB, devoid of offensive playmakers, especially at WR). Also, don't know too much about McNeil (I assume that's who you are talking about), haven't really heard him discussed as a franchise OL, but theres a whole group of them - Eric Winston, Winston Justice, McNeil, the Scott kid from Texas, Spencer from Ptt -- that seems to be graded around late first to early 2nd, at which point the Texans should be able to grab one of them with their 2.1 pick without too much of a dropfoff. If they get Bush and one of them and make a few savvy FA pickups (get an OL like Bentley there and they can have two franchise OL AND Bush), would be one great offseason IMO. Granted I'm a 49er fan, so everything else - actual options and hope - looks great to me.

Edited February 23, 2006 by cph

[mggoilers]

By no means am I saying selecting Bush is a foolproof plan, risk is always present.  I am saying selecting him seems to be a very good selection all things considered (fans/business side, their cap room and the available OL in free agency, plus the depth of draft at OL) and seems to accomplish the most (opens things open on offense) with the LEAST risk.  Really, when considering all aspects, I just don't see a better risk/reward payoff than they get by selecting Bush.

 

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Bush is the safe pick. no one will question them. The smart move is to recognize the value of the pick, your healthy cap situation, and healthy market. take advantage.

 

People will get over the Texans passing on Bush and Young, if it results in a .500 season. Bush/Young will sell tickets, but that's not a problem in Houston. Losing is the biggest problem.

 

Kubiak should have first hand knowledge. In 1995, Ki-jana Carter was the consensus best player in the draft...turned out awful.

 

In that same draft, Denver selected Terrell Davis #196 overall...you can always find a RB. Green Bay proved it last year. Depth and talent on the O-line and D-line is harder to come by...it's not as sexy, but the UGLIES can make even a Samkon Gado look. Ask Mike Sherman.

Edited February 23, 2006 by mggoilers

[TecmoBeast]

Houston needs to get Carr a TE to work with. I remember Carr developing a connection with Billy Miller his first season. Carr has been working with scraps at TE.

[rhino]

Houston needs to get Carr a TE to work with.  I remember Carr developing a connection with Billy Miller his first season.  Carr has been working with scraps at TE.

 

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Ding, ding, ding!

 

And get rid of Charlie Casserly. Or whoever is responsible for getting draft grades no higher than a "C". The Texans' drafts have yet to be anything to talk about, except the future #1 pick.

[Sgt. Ryan]

If Im the Texans GM,

 

 

I deal Carr to Baltimore for Ray Lewis. Sure hes older, but lets get real, he will alone help turn that defense around, and keep those players accountable.

 

 

I sign Bentley.

 

I then sign Edge for 5 yrs 40 mil, what Wayne just got.

 

I deal DD and a 4th rounder to the Vikes for an OT Bryant McKinnie.

 

I draft Vince Young at 1.1. The fans want him, and he willed TEXAS, OUR TEXAS, OH HAIL THE MIGHTY STATE, TEXAS OUR TEXAS, SO WONDERFUL AND GREAT... over leinart, Bush, Jarrett and the rest of that trojan team. He becomes the face of your franchise.

 

 

Round 2.1 I take Sinorice Moss or Chad Jackson and give Young 2 legit WRs to throw too

 

Round 3.1 I take G – Davin Joseph – Oklahoma - underperformed his Senior yr, but has 1st round ability and is already an upgrade starter on this OL

 

round 4 - no pick part of Bryant McKinnie deal

 

round 5 - Dusty Dvoracek DT - Off the field problems make him fall here, but he is a run stuffer and a force inside to partner with last yrs #1, to keep the OL off Ray Ray.

 

round 6 - David Thomas TE, Vince Youngs favorite target at Texas, and can help stretch teh middle of the field.

 

round 7 - Brad Smith WR - Kid is cat quick, but not a true QB, in the mold of Antwan Randle El.

 

 

So what have we accomplished

 

 

Upgrade the OL with 3 new starters

 

1. Bryant McKinnie

2. Charles Bentley

3. Davin Jospeh

 

upgraded the QB

 

1. Vince Young

 

upgrade the WR with

 

1. Chad Jackson or Sinorice Moss

2. Brad Smith

 

upgrade the DL with

 

1. Dusty Dvoracek

 

huge upgrade at LB

 

1. Ray Lewis

 

upgrade the TE

 

1. David Thomas

 

 

huge upgrade at RB

 

1. Edge James

 

 

 

Sure this is a fantasy, but there is no reason it all couldnt happen if Houston became active and took some chances. This team would be close to a 500 team, probably 7-9 next yr, then 9-7 the next. And should be a threat the following.

Edited February 23, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan

[Robash]

Sure this is a fantasy

 

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speaking of fantasy Sarge

 

 

If Im the Texans GM,

I deal Carr to Baltimore for Ray Lewis.

 

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if that happens...im blaming you when Kailee Wong only nets me 100 points next year