Vince Young

[robusticity]

Vince ran a 4.48 as well completed 55 of 60 passes with 2 of those being drops

[Retrograde assault]

Hmmm...that's certainly a different take, albeit from a reporter not a scout. I guess we'll have to wait and hear from more witnesses.

 

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If McClain says it, I believe it, I listen to him once a week, he has a lot of contacts in the NFL.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Vince ran a 4.48 as well completed 55 of 60 passes with 2 of those being drops

 

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Oh, is that right? So, I assume you were there with your electronic track timer, right?

 

[Azazello1313]

Oh, is that right? So, I assume you were there with your electronic track timer, right?

 

 

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dude, what's your hard-on for VY? it's like you're skins and he's a typical republican.

[Goopster24]

I'm still not buying any of it. Vince Young is still IMO the second coming of Michael Vick, only a little bigger. A workout is one thing; Give me some time and I'll hit 55 of 57 passes too. I wanna see him scramble and do the crap he did to USC in the NFL.

[loyalboyd]

I'm still not buying any of it. Vince Young is still IMO the second coming of Michael Vick, only a little bigger. A workout is one thing; Give me some time and I'll hit 55 of 57 passes too. I wanna see him scramble and do the crap he did to USC in the NFL.

 

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And I think we shall see really soon.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

dude, what's your hard-on for VY?  it's like you're skins and he's a typical republican.

 

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I don't even know what you mean by that comment. I was just chastising some newbie for "correcting" my original post information without adding any reason for doing it.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

From DraftDaddy.com:

 

As most draft fans know, yesterday was Texas quarterback Vince Young's Pro day, and if one reads the major media, it appears to have been a rousing success.

 

But Draft Daddy has been speaking with insiders and other influential football minds, and it is becoming clear that Vince's workout day wasn't as amazing as some have said. His throwing was good, but the types of throws he was attempting were, to be frank, easy and intermediate level throws at best. Some scouts were unhappy that more difficult throws such as long outs and deep go's were not attempted. Further, the lack of inclement weather conditions such as wind and rain inside the practice dome where the workout was held eliminated a major variable that could have answered questions about his pass technique.

 

Regarding the physical workout, the fact that Vince Young had to be practically begged to run a 40 yard dash speaks volumes about his true speed. Simply put, Vince Young isn't all that fast. He wouldn't run in Indy and didn't want to run in Texas - for a guy who is supposed to be blindingly fast what is Vince hiding? "Unathletic" (not our words) quarterback Bruce Gradkowski from Toledo ran in the same neighborhood of 4.6 at the Combine and no one is claiming him as the next Michael Jordan-type player to come down the pike.

 

What does this all add up to? Same as prior to the workout, Vince Young is a hype machine. Major media outlets and high profile draft guru's love to tout this player because he is exciting and an easy sell to casual fans. In the league he will be a jersey seller, a highlight reel, an occasional beater of bad defenses. However speed-wise he is not a Mike Vick caliber athlete, nor is he even a Matt Jones caliber athlete. Sooner or later someone just as fast (or faster) than Vince Young, but bigger and meaner (e.g. John Abraham, Shawne Merriman, Julius Peppers) will catch this running quarterback and violently convey that the NFL is not the Big 12. When (not if but when) that happens, Vince Young will be forced to become a drop-back quarterback (similar career track as Donovan McNabb, but with worse throwing mechanics).

 

History has shown that playoff teams don't win in bad weather with run-first quarterback's. In fact, there has never been a quarterback in the history of the league to win the Super Bowl after rushing for more than 300 yards in the regular season. Since the days of Staubach we have heard about runners that will revolutionize the quarterback position. Long story short, it never happens. Wouldn't it make sense for quarterback-needy teams just to take a pocket passer from the get-go?

 

First of all, this report tends to agree with Mort's assessment, not McClain's. Although I wouldn't hold it against him, it sounds like McClain might have been a fan of Young BEFORE his workout.

 

Essentially, that sums up my position on Young. I've got nothing against the kid, but, as I've said before, there's just no reason he shoul d have EVER been touted as a top-3 pick. Before the USC game, he was talked about as a mid- to late-first-rounder. Then he shreds a bad Pac-10 defense on national TV and he's the best player in the country.

 

The bottom line is that the media (and fans) have had way too much to do with Young's ascension to pre-draft greatness. So far, scouts aren't the ones calling him Superman -- media outlets are.

 

If you ask me, he's going to have to land in a GREAT situation to justify all the hype. Arizona would fit the bill.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

More info, this time from actual former NFL scouts who work for TSN's "War Room":

 

Draft Dish: Vince Young's workout only OK

 

March 22, 2006 Print it

 

By War Room scouts

For Sporting News

 

AUSTIN, Texas -- In one of the most anticipated pre-draft workouts, Texas quarterback Vince Young performed Wednesday in front of more than 130 NFL scouts, coaches and general managers at the University of Texas.

 

Young was goaded into running the 40-yard dash but ran it in only 4.58 seconds. Some scouts clocked him as slow as 4.60. That's an average time, at best, for a guy whose reputation is built on speed and athleticism. Even more disappointing was the fact Young declined to do the vertical jump or broad jump. He couldn't participate in the postseason all-star games because he was a junior, and he chose not to compete at the NFL Combine last month. Now, with 130 possible employers in attendance, he again refused to partake in agility drills.

 

Young did go through the passing drills but didn't make a great impression and certainly didn't prove he is a top-caliber quarterback. During the throwing session, Young used a five- and seven-step dropback, instead of the shotgun, but didn't use a center. This is important because he worked predominantly from the shotgun formation in college but certainly will be under center the vast majority of the time in the NFL.

 

Young displayed a strong arm, a quick release and good accuracy. Only five passes hit the turf at Texas' indoor practice field. However, as one quarterbacks coach told us, "you're supposed to complete every pass in shorts without a pass rush."

 

Questions still remain. The session was highly orchestrated and didn't include enough "NFL routes."

 

It still looks as if Young will go no higher than No. 7 on draft day and potentially could drop into the mid-teens. One coach, whose team has a double-digit draft spot, now says Young could drop to him.

 

Young apparently didn't help himself in interview process, either. He answered some questions from scouts, but there are lingering issues about the depth of his football acumen. Some coaches wonder if the Texas offense was so simplified for him that a pro offense might be foreign to him.

Considering the amount of bad advice Young continues to get from his family and advisors, NFL personnel men are beginning to wonder how this group might affect him after he is drafted.

 

Young made a questionable decision to forego his senior year based largely on a strong Rose Bowl performance against a Southern Cal defense that struggled to stop even mediocre offenses during the '05 season. Then there was the Wonderlic debacle at the NFL Combine, where Young was completely unprepared to take the test and had an embarrassing single-digit score in his first attempt and then a still-poor-for-a-quarterback 16 on his second attempt.

 

Young's decision not to run at the Combine is understandable but also a mistake because the University of Texas' turf is notoriously slow. A veteran agent would have known this and had his client run on the new, fast surface at the RCA Dome -- estimates are that Young's 4.58 time would have been at least a 4.50 in Indy.

 

The issue of skipping the agility drills is not as critical but curious for a player whose strength is his athletic ability. Combine that with an average showing in passing drills, and his decisions just don't make sense.

 

There is no debate that Young's inexperienced agent and advisors are hurting his draft stock. Wednesday was just another example.

 

Young has started a slow slide down some draft boards, which already might have cost him millions of dollars. Another misstep between now and the April 29 draft could hurt even more. He will try to redeem himself in upcoming private workouts scheduled with four different teams, starting Thursday with the Titans.

Bottom line: The coaches/GMs that liked Young before Wednesday's workout still like him, and those who didn't still don't. It was an average workout that didn't hurt or help him.

[spain]

Titans interview QB Young

 

Reese gives his approval to quarterback's advisers

 

By PAUL KUHARSKY

Staff Writer

 

 

AUSTIN, Texas — The Titans can now say they know Vince Young.

 

After watching some film with the quarterback and Longhorns offensive coordinator Greg Davis on Wednesday evening, the team's seven-person entourage enjoyed a Mexican dinner with Young, his uncle and his agent.

 

Yesterday, Jeff Fisher had breakfast with Young before a film work session at Texas' football office. Then Young went through a private workout at the team's practice bubble with Titans receivers Courtney Roby, Bobby Wade and Sloan Thomas catching passes.

 

After he reportedly scored a 6 on his first try at the Wonderlic — a 12-minute, 50-question test administered at the combine — some questioned Young's preparation and decision-making,

 

But Titans General Manager Floyd Reese said after visiting with Young and the two men he's chosen to guide him — his uncle Keith Young and his inexperienced agent Major Adams — he doesn't have any major questions.

 

And it's Reese who will have the ultimate say if the Titans decide to draft Young, Matt Leinart or Jay Cutler with the No. 3 pick in the April 29-30 draft.

 

"I don't think we feel uncomfortable at all about that, I think that was just an example of how these things get blown out of proportion," Reese said. "We met with his agent and with his uncle for a long time.

 

"They are exceptional people and I can understand why Vince chose them. That probably wasn't as hard a decision as a lot of people want to make it out to be."

 

Titans offensive coordinator Norm Chow already knew Leinart from their time together with the Trojans. He already knew Vanderbilt's Cutler from coaching him at the Senior Bowl and spending a recent day with him at team headquarters.

 

Now he finally has a feel for Young and will be able to make some comparisons as the Titans get closer to the draft.

 

"That was the first time I've even seen Vince in person because I missed him at the combine," Chow said after Wednesday's Pro Day workout. "Whatever fears people had about him, he seems like a guy people had a lot of questions about, I think he got a lot of them answered.

 

"I think he did a nice job. I think he did a lot to help himself in the draft."

Fisher said he too was pleased with what he saw and heard from Young during two days in Austin.

 

"I was very impressed with every phase, with his personality, his character, his competitiveness, his athletic ability," Fisher said.

 

A day after Young looked solid and drew some rave reviews for completing 50 of 55 passes in a Pro Day workout, Tennessee wanted to see Young perform in some less orchestrated situations.

 

"He did well with the different throws, the sprint outs, the pressure flushes, the scrambles and the different drops, the three-step, the five-step and the full drop," Fisher said. "I thought he did a nice job in each one of those situations."

 

Fisher said the three Titans receivers helped by bringing a great deal of energy to the workout.

 

Said Roby: "Basically we just ran the route tree and everything. Vince looked very comfortable. He has a strong arm. He has all of it. He's a very personable guy. He did well."

The Titans have plans to spend the same sort of time with Leinart on April 3, the day after the Trojans hold their Pro Day on campus.

 

And while they've already visited extensively with Cutler, odds are they will invite him back in to throw to the same trio of receivers as they continue to compare the three for the draft. •

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl.../603240422/1027

Edited March 24, 2006 by spain

[NAUgrad]

From DraftDaddy.com:

First of all, this report tends to agree with Mort's assessment, not McClain's. Although I wouldn't hold it against him, it sounds like McClain might have been a fan of Young BEFORE his workout.

 

Essentially, that sums up my position on Young. I've got nothing against the kid, but, as I've said before, there's just no reason he shoul d have EVER been touted as a top-3 pick. Before the USC game, he was talked about as a mid- to late-first-rounder. Then he shreds a bad Pac-10 defense on national TV and he's the best player in the country.

 

The bottom line is that the media (and fans) have had way too much to do with Young's ascension to pre-draft greatness. So far, scouts aren't the ones calling him Superman -- media outlets are.

 

If you ask me, he's going to have to land in a GREAT situation to justify all the hype. Arizona would fit the bill.

 

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Although he might be overhyped at this point, watching him play off and on this whole season, I can guarantee you that the USC game is not the only game that had people pushing him up the draft board. He might completely flop in the NFL, no doubt, but he was fantastic throughout his college career. Taking over games and basically winning them himself was amazing to watch.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Spain -- don' t take this the wrong way, since you know I appreciate your insight on anything Titans-related -- but that was a completely cookie-cutter reaction from Reese, Fisher, and Chow. Not overly complimentary, but not critical at all. I'm sure they'll say the same things about the other two guys.

 

My point is that they have a vested interest in how the draft plays out, so they're obviously not inclined to show their hand. The sources I quoted have no vested interest, other than their own credibility that depends on them being right.

 

Of course, the more Reese talks about Young, the more people will believe he's serious. I just don't see it.

 

I will say this, though -- it certainly seems you were right about the Titans being set on drafting a QB. You know I love Ferguson, but in retrospect, it's probably smart of them. If they feel comfortable in their jobs, then they should believe that they won't be drafting this high ever again, which means they should take their shot at another franchise QB.

[spain]

Spain -- don' t take this the wrong way, since you know I appreciate your insight on anything Titans-related -- but that was a completely cookie-cutter reaction from Reese, Fisher, and Chow. Not overly complimentary, but not critical at all. I'm sure they'll say the same things about the other two guys.

 

My point is that they have a vested interest in how the draft plays out, so they're obviously not inclined to show their hand. The sources I quoted have no vested interest, other than their own credibility that depends on them being right.

 

Of course, the more Reese talks about Young, the more people will believe he's serious. I just don't see it.

 

I will say this, though -- it certainly seems you were right about the Titans being set on drafting a QB. You know I love Ferguson, but in retrospect, it's probably smart of them. If they feel comfortable in their jobs, then they should believe that they won't be drafting this high ever again, which means they should take their shot at another franchise QB.

 

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I dont disagree with you at all. Floyd Reese, who has the final say in all personnel related matters, will never tip his hand. But everyone already knows that they basically have to take a QB at 1.3. I think that they will all be complimentary to Leinart, Young, and Cutler. They will NOT let anyone know which way they are leaning. That is why I have repeatedly said that I am not sure how they have these 3 guys ranked, if they have them ranked yet. Leinart's pro day is coming up later. Only then will the Titans final evaluations be in. But they still wont give us any hints as to how they are leaning.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

I dont disagree with you at all.  Floyd Reese, who has the final say in all personnel related matters, will never tip his hand.  But everyone already knows that they basically have to take a QB at 1.3.  I think that they will all be complimentary to Leinart, Young, and Cutler.  They will NOT let anyone know which way they are leaning.  That is why I have repeatedly said that I am not sure how they have these 3 guys ranked, if they have them ranked yet.  Leinart's pro day is coming up later.  Only then will the Titans final evaluations be in.  But they still wont give us any hints as to how they are leaning.

 

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Okay, then, we agree. Fair enough.

[Azazello1313]

I don't even know what you mean by that comment. I was just chastising some newbie for "correcting" my original post information without adding any reason for doing it.

 

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yeah, right.

 

look at every post in this thread, how you're trying to spin every bit of information in the most negative possible way for young. then someone says something positive about his workout and you blast him for talking out of his ass.

 

i didn't know you were such a USC fan. or is it oklahomo? a&m?

[Swiss Cheezhead]

yeah, right.

 

look at every post in this thread, how you're trying to spin every bit of information in the most negative possible way for young.  then someone says something positive about his workout and you blast him for talking out of his ass. 

 

i didn't know you were such a USC fan.  or is it oklahomo?  a&m?

 

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Honestly, Az, if I have any contempt about this topic, it's just for people who either (a) have blindly followed the media hype machine toward the belief that Young is a god or ( thought that Young's title-winning performance against USC means he'll be a good pro. I'm sick of all the sheep!

 

And, of course, I ALWAYS hate when people post sh*t that sounds like legit information, but don't cite their source. It's irritating. The toolbox above was guilty on all counts.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

And, for the record, I was cheering for Young and the 'Horns quite intensely in the Rose Bowl. I picked them to win several weeks in advance.

 

Leinart is the QB I actually hate.

[Azazello1313]

Honestly, Az, if I have any contempt about this topic, it's just for people who either (a) have blindly followed the media hype machine toward the belief that Young is a god or ( thought that Young's title-winning performance against USC means he'll be a good pro. I'm sick of all the sheep!

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well there are a whole bunch of pro scouts, coaches and GMs among the ranks of those "sheep" who rank VY higher than a mid-1st-round pick.

 

it's funny that you blast people for thinking that the greatest college football performance many of us have ever seen -- on the biggest possible stage, against a team many were calling the greatest college team ever -- indicates that VY will be a good pro.

 

when on the other hand, your own evidence that VY will NOT be a good pro consists of silly little tests with questions about how whether sally is taller than jim if jim is shorter than bob.

[spain]

I can say for the record that neither John McClain or myself were biased for VY. We are both Baylor grads and we hate T-sips...

[Swiss Cheezhead]

well there are a whole bunch of pro scouts, coaches and GMs among the ranks of those "sheep" who rank VY higher than a mid-1st-round pick. 

 

it's funny that you blast people for thinking that the greatest college football performance many of us have ever seen -- on the biggest possible stage, against a team many were calling the greatest college team ever -- indicates that VY will be a good pro.

 

when on the other hand, your own evidence that VY will NOT be a good pro consists of silly little tests with questions about how whether sally is taller than jim if jim is shorter than bob.

 

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Name me a coach or pro scout who rank Young as a top-3 pick. You can't because even if they believed it, they wouldn't say it and, therefore, you wouldn't know it. At least I've CITED former NFL scouts and current coaches (though anonymous, of course) who call him a mid-first-rounder.

 

I'll give you the "big stage" thing, but anybody who thought 2005 USC was the best team ever is a moron. Why? Because their defense was awful. I mean, c'mon Az. What kind of argument is that? I could go through a ton of teams who did the same thing to the USC defense. And Young didn't do it by himself, either. The Texas offense was extremely talented, whether you want to believe it or not.

 

And, no, I haven't made the Wonderlic score my main argument, but if it helps your argument, then go ahead and believe it. Funky throwing motion, no experience in a complex offense, no experience under center, questionable accuracy, and, now, less-than-impressive speed (for a "scrambling QB"). After all that, I'd worry about his Wonderlic score.

[spain]

Did VY request the NFL committee give him a grade as to where they thought he might be expected to be drafted if he came out early like alot of under classmen do?

[alexgaddis]

I saw a report that said he was a full 8.5 dumber than Culter

[spain]

I saw a report that said he was a full 8.5 dumber than Culter

 

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True, but he could spell Jay Cutler's name correctly...

[alexgaddis]

True, but he could spell Jay Cutler's name correctly...

 

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I was talking about Stephan Culter, the retarded french guy

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Did VY request the NFL committee give him a grade as to where they thought he might be expected to be drafted if he came out early like alot of under classmen do?

 

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I don't think so...it wasn't reported, if he did. Either way, it wouldn't help this argument, really, since their highest "grade" is top-10, then something like "no lower than a second-round pick". I forget how it goes, but it's very vague.