spain Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 http://www.newsday.com/business/printediti...0,6019069.story BY RICHARD J. DALTON JR Newsday Staff Writer March 22, 2006 Who owns Ken Griffey Jr.'s home run statistics, Roger Clemens' pitching record or the rights to Alex Rodriguez's name? Major League Baseball claims it does. A company that runs fantasy baseball leagues disagrees. And in July, both sides will fight it out in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri. If Major League Baseball wins the right to control the statistics, it could eliminate hundreds of free leagues, raise the price for the dozens of fee-based leagues and limit the variety of game formats, a lawyer for the plaintiff claims. The public battle also could taint Major League Baseball's reputation among the 4 million fanatics of fantasy baseball, said Ben Clark, a partner at the intellectual property firm Senniger Powers in St. Louis. "I think they quite rightly perceive that it is not a particularly popular position they're taking. A lot of people play fantasy baseball." In fantasy baseball, participants form teams from actual major-league players, and the fantasy team's performance is based on real-life statistics. The battle comes as Major League Baseball focuses on its own fantasy baseball leagues and its licenses with a handful of companies, down from 20 licensees last year, according to briefs in the case. "It's apparent that Major League Baseball is undertaking a strategy to limit the people who get these names and stats," Clark said. But Major League Baseball says it wants to improve the game, not limit choices. "The fantasy licenses that we have granted this year are in the best interests of the fans and fantasy baseball players around the world," said Jim Gallagher, spokesman for Major League Baseball's Internet unit. The friction began when Major League Baseball's Internet unit bought the rights to players' statistics for $50 million last year, then refused to grant a license to St. Louis-based CBC Distribution and Marketing, CBC claims. So CBC, which runs its own fantasy league and provides services to USA Today, Sports Weekly and MSNBC, sued. Rudolph Telscher, a lawyer in the St. Louis office of Harness and Dickey representing CBC, said the First Amendment allows CBC to publish the statistics for free. He also said the statistics are historical facts in the public domain. Gallagher agreed the statistics are in the public domain but added, "If you're going to use Alex Rodriguez's name and picture and number and team logo to go along with those stats, then you have to pay a licensing fee." Gallagher said that, like other fantasy leagues, CBC had previously paid licensing fees to the players association before the association sold the rights to baseball's Internet arm. He said CBC just doesn't want to pay the higher fees that unit is charging. But Telscher said, "The only offer ever made to our company was that we turn over all of our customers to MLB for a 10-percent commission and then we would be out of the business, which was not an offer at all." In an earlier case, Major League Baseball was on the other end when a group of former players sued it, claiming their rights were violated by the use of their names and statistics in game programs. Major League Baseball claimed it was historical data and a California court agreed. The current case reminds Eli Eilbott, an intellectual-property lawyer at Duncan, Weinberg, Genzer & Pembroke in Washington, D.C., of another case. In 1996, the American Society of Composers, Authors & Publishers demanded that camps pay license fees for scouts singing campfire songs including "God Bless America," "Row Row Row" and "Happy Birthday." The society backed down after a public outcry. "It sure sounds like a short-sighted move by MLB," Eilbott said. "These fantasy leagues, if anything, are great for baseball." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryTheRock Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I actually read something last year about the NFL wanting to hord the NFL Fantasy cash. Then what would we do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Here we go. I hope yet again the NFL steps up and shows the other leagues how to do things. Leave the stats alone. You guys control the resources of just about everything as it is.These guys are getting enough money, let the fans have a little fun. DMD and WW if you need any help let is know what we can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Here we go. I hope yet again the NFL steps up and shows the other leagues how to do things. Leave the stats alone. You guys control the resources of just about everything as it is.These guys are getting enough money, let the fans have a little fun. DMD and WW if you need any help let is know what we can do. 1387089[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 If the leagues win the rights to control everything, I swear I am DONE with professional sports. I've had about enough of the pro sports trying to squeeze every last dime out of it's customer base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 DMD is well aware of there happenings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) Gallagher agreed the statistics are in the public domain but added, "If you're going to use Alex Rodriguez's name and picture and number and team logo to go along with those stats, then you have to pay a licensing fee." 1387073[/snapback] This is the key paragraph. Edited March 25, 2006 by godtomsatan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyalboyd Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 DMD is well aware of there happenings. 1387098[/snapback] I hope it dont come down to that. Because I can see prices going through the roof. If it ddoes and losing lots of fans that do this. This is how many people learn other teams beside their own and much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaint Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 DMD is well aware of there happenings. 1387098[/snapback] at the risk of pimping and/or brown-nosing :doah:, DMD and i had a discussion about this for the book almost three years ago, and he outlined this exact issue as looming down the road -- the growing tension over who owns, and therefore gets $ from, the stats -- ...he was ahead of the fantasy game and had his finger on the pulse of the fantasy industry as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I guess we could just go back to scoring games from the box score in the sports section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 if they decide to make it more difficult for people to part-take in fantasy...then they lose potential viewers that "need" to see the game... plus other things, it has a trickle effect.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junebugz Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 probably the most shocking fact in all of this is that spain and randall might actually be on the same side of the fence this time ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I actually read something last year about the NFL wanting to hord the NFL Fantasy cash. Then what would we do? 1387086[/snapback] Your answer is supplied below. If the leagues win the rights to control everything, I swear I am DONE with professional sports. I've had about enough of the pro sports trying to squeeze every last dime out of it's customer base. 1387096[/snapback] And so say all of us. The golden goose is being laid out on the chopping block yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 The MLB case is a definite big thing because it will set the one thing that has never really existed - "a precendent". So both sides have pretty much everything to win or lose depending on the decision. The Fantasy Sports Trade Association is also getting into the act a bit as the industry trade organization and Whitney just became a member of their board this month so the interests of the fantasy community will definitely be looked out for. It will be fascinating on many levels and this has been the main topic of discussion at trade meetings for years. As far as The Huddle is concerned, the findings of the case will not likely have a big impact on us anyway since we are mainly a news and opinion site. But all league sites and contests are definitely at risk because that is where the money - and the lawsuit - truly lies. In the MLB, they wanted to only allow (license) about 4 or 5 companies for millions (like ESPN, FOX, SPortsline and Yahooo) and shut everything else down. We'll be following it very closely indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junebugz Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 one word ... SHENANIGANS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Where I come from, we call this "crapping where you eat." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaint Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Where I come from, we call this "crapping where you eat." 1387200[/snapback] nail, meet head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 he was ahead of the fantasy game and had his finger on the pulse of the fantasy industry as usual. 1387153[/snapback] And now we all know how the term "ass finger" made its way into Huddle lore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaint Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 And now we all know how the term "ass finger" made its way into Huddle lore... 1387248[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) The NFL would be only a fraction of what it is today if it weren't for FF. Edited March 25, 2006 by MikesVikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Where I come from, we call this "crapping where you eat." 1387200[/snapback] Ween wrote a good tune advising not to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 at the risk of pimping and/or brown-nosing1387153[/snapback] Radio has the brownest nose I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 This is the key paragraph. 1387105[/snapback] I agree, just don't use logo, or jersey number. They need to fight this regardless with no restrictions. If I have to go back to paper and pencil, I'll watch the Lions and rest of the NFL broadcasts can kiss my ass, theres no way this won't have a negative impact on all. I do this for fun, not addiction, least not the literal sense of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunther Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Where I come from, we call this "crapping where you eat." 1387200[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I agree, just don't use logo, or jersey number. They need to fight this regardless with no restrictions. If I have to go back to paper and pencil, I'll watch the Lions and rest of the NFL broadcasts can kiss my ass, theres no way this won't have a negative impact on all. I do this for fun, not addiction, least not the literal sense of. 1387368[/snapback] I know jack sh*t about MLB. All I care about is the Tigers and since they've been down for so long, it's really hard for me to get excited anymore. Fortunatly for them, like the Lions, hope springs eternal. I am not the kind of person to get excited about any other team except I do care enough to jump on the anti-Yankee bandwagon each October. The NFL risks losing much of it's fan base. They have a track record of not being as foolish as the other major sports, let's hope that continues. Sh*t where you eat is good. I'll submit: Bite the hand that feeds you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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