Chief Dick Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I know jack sh*t about MLB. All I care about is the Tigers and since they've been down for so long, it's really hard for me to get excited anymore. Fortunatly for them, like the Lions, hope springs eternal. 1387513[/snapback] Finally, someone who understands what it's like being a Royals fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 at the risk of pimping and/or brown-nosing :doah:, DMD and i had a discussion about this for the book almost three years ago, and he outlined this exact issue as looming down the road -- the growing tension over who owns, and therefore gets $ from, the stats -- ...he was ahead of the fantasy game and had his finger on the pulse of the fantasy industry as usual. 1387153[/snapback] Brown nose. But, that's nothing compared to being full of sh*t: But Major League Baseball says it wants to improve the game, not limit choices. "The fantasy licenses that we have granted this year are in the best interests of the fans and fantasy baseball players around the world," said Jim Gallagher, spokesman for Major League Baseball's Internet unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 The spamshirts, team symbols, etc., I can definitely understand and have no problem with the league attempting to protect that brand. But arent stats already in the public domain and as such unprotectable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSULions Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 If MLB tries to control the names of players, stats, etc..... I will simply stop playing FB. It is a fun hobby, but my kids are getting older and I will take the time spent on FB and use it to spend more with my kids while they are still fairly young. When MLB see their fantasy base drop by 33 - 40% they will realize the error of their ways. If the NFL does the same thing, I would have to consider dropping FFL too, but I enjoy it more than FBL so I will take a wait and see approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Row Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I guess we could just go back to scoring games from the box score in the sports section. NOOOOO!!! Anything but that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaint Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Brown nose. 1387566[/snapback] :bigmiddlefinger: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 The spamshirts, team symbols, etc., I can definitely understand and have no problem with the league attempting to protect that brand. But arent stats already in the public domain and as such unprotectable? 1387567[/snapback] Agreed, but if there's nothing to attach the stats to, they become meaningless. We can omit the logos, etc, but if you can't use a player's name, that's a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 This is what I find most amazing: In an earlier case, Major League Baseball was on the other end when a group of former players sued it, claiming their rights were violated by the use of their names and statistics in game programs. Major League Baseball claimed it was historical data and a California court agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Logos are the property of the NFL teams, they have never really been an issue. Player pictures, use of names and stats are argued to be owned by the NFL Players Association. One of the oddities of the argument to me is that the players contend that they own their stats though they are created via their employment with an NFL team. It is sort of like being a teamster working for a trucking company. They want to say that they own all rights of discussing how many trucks they loaded on a particular day. What makes it even more convoluted is that the NFLPA freely admits it is fine when media uses the stats to promote the game via newspaper and internet and TV. It would be hard for anyone to convince me that TV and newspapers are not "for profit". And yet they are only interested when the stats/names are used for league management products and contests. So - they only want money when you are involved in particular ventures using stats but not all of them because they realize that the media has to have free rein to promote the NFL. And since they would give nothing back in return for a "license" (no player promo, no access to anything special, nothing more than the right to write them a check) it pretty much all comes across as simple extortion they hope to have a legal right to pursue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 This is what I find most amazing: 1387677[/snapback] I wonder if the testimony in that previous trial can be used in the new case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltaire Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 What makes it even more convoluted is that the NFLPA freely admits it is fine when media uses the stats to promote the game via newspaper and internet and TV. ... And yet they are only interested when the stats/names are used for league management products and contests. 1387685[/snapback] You'd think they'd be amazed at how much Fantasy Baseball promotes the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 You'd think they'd be amazed at how much Fantasy Baseball promotes the game. 1387692[/snapback] Without FB, I would go to - maybe - half a dozen Twins games a year and check out their scores in the paper over breakfast. The rest of baseball could just as well not exist, as far as I'm concerned. With FB, I'm interested in all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 As far as The Huddle is concerned, the findings of the case will not likely have a big impact on us anyway since we are mainly a news and opinion site. 1387174[/snapback] I understand that you wont be affected as much as the other sites. But beware! The Huddle will also be affected because an adverse ruling could diminish the number of people playing ff. With fewer people playing ff, the fewer number of paying customers, this, and every other football site will have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I believe MLB will lose this case and the NFL wouldn't have gone near it either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) Logos are the property of the NFL teams, they have never really been an issue. Player pictures, use of names and stats are argued to be owned by the NFL Players Association. One of the oddities of the argument to me is that the players contend that they own their stats though they are created via their employment with an NFL team. It is sort of like being a teamster working for a trucking company. They want to say that they own all rights of discussing how many trucks they loaded on a particular day. What makes it even more convoluted is that the NFLPA freely admits it is fine when media uses the stats to promote the game via newspaper and internet and TV. It would be hard for anyone to convince me that TV and newspapers are not "for profit". And yet they are only interested when the stats/names are used for league management products and contests. So - they only want money when you are involved in particular ventures using stats but not all of them because they realize that the media has to have free rein to promote the NFL. And since they would give nothing back in return for a "license" (no player promo, no access to anything special, nothing more than the right to write them a check) it pretty much all comes across as simple extortion they hope to have a legal right to pursue. 1387685[/snapback] I totally agree. I can't imagine the NFLPA going after any sort of law suite. Fantasy Football probably ups the fan base (and in turn, income) for the NFL on a much greater level then if they were to diminish the amount of people playing FF by going after it for a little extra immediate, and short term, cash. Edited March 25, 2006 by TheGrunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 I totally agree. I can't imagine the NFLPA going after any sort of law suite. Fantasy Football probably ups the fan base (and in turn, income) for the NFL on a much greater level then if they were to diminish the amount of people playing FF by going after it for a little extra immediate, and short term, cash. 1387964[/snapback] I believe it is called being penny wise and pound foolish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I understand that you wont be affected as much as the other sites. But beware! The Huddle will also be affected because an adverse ruling could diminish the number of people playing ff. With fewer people playing ff, the fewer number of paying customers, this, and every other football site will have. 1387956[/snapback] Trust me - already noted. Anything that is bad for football or fantasy football is bad for The Huddle - it's just a question of how bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 For fans, I don't see a reason for pamic, only concern. I don't think mlb is looking at a site that gets half a million players payin 10bucks to play their league with an eye towards shutting it down in order to charge double. It seems like they just want those half million customers at ten bucks a head for thenselves. It's corporatization that is going to happen inevitably given the dollar amounts involved. Beyond that, who in FF really cares about team logos.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radio Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Radio has the brownest nose I've ever seen. 1387311[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Where I come from, we call this "crapping where you eat." 1387200[/snapback] Not to mention "biting the hand that feeds you." I'll never play fantasy baseball or attend another MLB game again if they win. What's next? Are they going to sue the newspapers for posting the box scores? Piss on that idiot Selig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Gallagher agreed the statistics are in the public domain but added, "If you're going to use Alex Rodriguez's name and picture and number and team logo to go along with those stats, then you have to pay a licensing fee." In an earlier case, Major League Baseball was on the other end when a group of former players sued it, claiming their rights were violated by the use of their names and statistics in game programs. Major League Baseball claimed it was historical data and a California court agreed. If, the above is true I don't know how they can argue their case. If it has already been argued that statistics are historical data, they're left with arguing about the name, logo and so forth. I do agree that the "team name", logo, and anything else that carries the teams' name are the property of that team. With stats for our purposes, we have no use for team names or logos. They can be called anything, who cares. But, can they say the players name is actually owned by the team and they can charge a lic. fee when the players name is used. You have to associate the stats with something, what about designating #'s to the players. I don't know how to get around the name but if the name of a player cannot be used, they're saying the players name is actually the teams right to do with as they please. The players aren't owned by the team, you can't buy a person but, they perform a service for the team by playing the game. Don't the players have any interest in this? Look, if they lic. the stats because a court decided the name of the player is the property, or the team has legal right to the use of it; for licensing, advertising or their next money hungry project of the team, the owners could put their hands on just about anything the players do, not that they would but, I guess you never know. It just seems you could circumvent the name and logo or whatever. Yes, I know it would be harder to get started every year but, I just don't see how they can pull this off. However, this is America and money can buy anything, including a decision in court. Money always wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I cannot fathom how a newspaper would not be allowed to report that "John Doe, who played second base for a baseball team named the Chicago Cubs and wore a jersey with the number 6 on it, struck out all 4 times that he came up to bat in a game in which the Cubs lost to a team named the St. Louis Cardinals by a score of 37-0." These are all historical facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I cannot fathom how a newspaper would not be allowed to report that "John Doe, who played second base for a baseball team named the Chicago Cubs and wore a jersey with the number 6 on it, struck out all 4 times that he came up to bat in a game in which the Cubs lost to a team named the St. Louis Cardinals by a score of 37-0." These are all historical facts. 1388339[/snapback] I guess it all comes down to the players name being used. I don't see how they could win this in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) I guess it all comes down to the players name being used. I don't see how they could win this in court. 1388342[/snapback] I don't either, but if I ever get arrested I am not going to allow the newspapers to report my name. Edited March 26, 2006 by wiegie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Honestly, fellas, it won't make an iota of impact on fantasy football. Even on the off chance the court rules in the leagues' favor on this issue, think about the ramifications if you owned a FF website. Why not just put a random letter in front of every player's first and last name? Or purposely misspell it? I could have LahDanean Tommlinsun on my team...or ZPlaxico ZBurress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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