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I finally get it....


Goopster24
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OK boys, it hit me this morning when Mr. Kiper Jr. was ranting on the upcoming draft: When was the last time there was a quarterback projected to go relatively high who EVERYONE was raving about? Of course, this is very obvious, but every quarterback has had some criticism directed towards their game or character, especially coming out of college. It seems like everyone wants these very successful college quarterbacks to fail in the NFL. Tell me again: why do you hate Matt Leinart? Why do you think he is going to fail?

 

No one can doubt Mr. Leinart’s individual success at USC. He put better numbers than who he succeeded, Heisman winner Carson Palmer. The kid only lost two games in his career, one which was for a unheard of “Three-in-a-Row”. Many want to contribute that to his supporting cast, the Heisman winner this year Reggie Bush, Mike Williams before, Dwayne Jarrett now, LenDale White; the list goes on and on. Many people fail to realize though that Leinart wasn’t even suppose to win the starting job. Matt “White” Cassel was suppose to beat him out. As a BACKUP, Cassel got drafted into the NFL. I think it speaks volumes that Leinart beat out this kid and went on to have the success he did. How can anyone argue that Reggie Bush was more valuable than Matt Leinart? You can’t, they still had White, who in fact scored more rushing touchdowns and set a school record.

 

Kiper Jr. made a great point this morning: you can say all you want about a quarterback’s arm strength, his mobility, his mechanics, his pocket presence, his accuracy. But it all comes down to your gut feeling about the guy. Does he have “it”? Throw out 40 times, wonderlic scores, bench press amounts, mechanics all of it. Look how many quarterbacks are in the hall of fame with horrible mobility, average arms, funky mechanics, and bad wonderlic scores. That stuff does not matter. Every quarterback you draft is going to be a project. You can’t expect a guy to be Joe Montana when he steps onto the field for career game number one.

 

Like we have all be saying, it’s a crapshoot. But I would bet a lot of money on Matt Leinart.

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So would Pat Kirwn and so would I.

 

The negatives about him are the same things people said about Joe Montana, and like Montana he is smart, accurate, makes good decisions and is a winner.

 

I keep hearing "he isn't Carson Palmer", but in big games he plays very well. I wonder if Palmer had gone to a different school if the negatives would be as strong.

 

Mayock says he thinks he isn't even a 1st rounder. Not that he won't be drafted there, but isn't worthy of being drafted there.

 

The championship against Oklahoma where he laid the ball repeatedly on his receivers hands is what convinced me.

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Outside of Haloti(Oregon), how many first rounders will Leinart have faced over the last 2 years on the defensive side of the ball? Not many over the last 3 drafts, if any....they all played for USC. guess he saw them in practice everyday.

 

I haven't heard too much about it, but the Pac 10 has produced some first and 2nd round offensive talent over the last few years who haven't fared well(Arrington, Boller, Reggie Williams, etc). I think leinart will be a solid NFL QB, but he stepped into a pretty good situation at USC and never had to play behind an inferior offensive line. He looks textbook on most throws with no one within 2-3 yards of him in most cases.

 

Leinart is the most NFL ready, but long term I think I'd take the gamble on Vince..but Vince might get himself killed and end up being McNair all over again...constantly on the injury report...not sure if he's as tough though.

 

Saying all that, he reminds me of a bigger Drew Brees. He had the same knocks on his game without alll the awards.

 

From Scouts inc.

 

Brees elevated his game in 2004 and has continued to improve in 2005. He has improved on the mental aspect of the game and is making better decisions and doing a better job of taking care of the ball and managing the game. His QB mechanics are sound, and he is quick on his pass sets. He does not have great arm strength, but he has enough to get the job done. He is very accurate on his short to intermediate passes, and when he can set his feet, he has enough velocity on the ball to throw the deep out and corner routes. He has improved his overall timing and touch on underneath, check-down and swing routes, and he throws a lot more catchable balls. He has good pocket presence and has enough quickness and agility to avoid the heavy rush and buy extra time. He is not a scrambler, but he has enough speed to get you some extra yards on bootlegs and roll outs. He has excellent ball skills and does a good job on play fakes. He has improved his overall recognition skills and pre-snap reads. The problem with Brees is he lacks ideal height and arm strength. He has difficulty seeing over the line of scrimmage at times, and he can't always see his intended target. He will get some balls batted down. He does not have the zip to throw the ball in tight spaces. He is not an accurate deep thrower and will overthrow more than he will complete. Overall, Brees surprised a lot of people in 2004 with his Pro Bowl performance. You didn't see a lot of dropoff this year, and if you look at the numbers, he has either improved or maintained on that breakout year. However, the Chargers' productive running game makes him a better QB.

 

Sounds like a scouting report on Leinart

Edited by mggoilers
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Outside of Haloti(Oregon), how many first rounders will Leinart have faced over the last 2 years on the defensive side of the ball?  Not many over the last 3 drafts, if any....they all played for USC.  guess he saw them in practice everyday.

 

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Leinart face OU last year in the national championship game, the Orange Bowl. That was hailed as one of the greatest defenses of all time. Leinart tore them apart. I'm not saying I agree with the assessment of the OU defense, but they did have several players that got drafted.

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I think he is a HORRIBLE QB...terrible decision maker and no poise in the pocket...I think it is a lock he will fail miserably in the NFL...

:D

 

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I agree. I don't think anybody should even chance it with a top 16 pick.

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I have been looking at both sides of the argument and I think it all depends on where he goes (short term). Tenn. is the best fit with Norm chow and a offense he is going to be somewhat familar with besides that I can't see him stepping right in and being a great qb right out the gate. I think alot of people that are drafting him in fantasy dynasty leaguges are thinking he is going to provide a quick return for their 5-8 rookie pick. I disagree. I think he will need as much time as Cutler or Young (unless he lands in Tenn) even if he ends up with Norm Chow at best you are looking at least a season before he gets acquainted with the speed of the defense's in the NFL. I hope Tenn. or whoever does what Cincy did for Palmer and give him a season to feel his oats. I really think this helped Palmer.

 

Long Term I think he will be above average but not a fantasy super star. I don't think he will be a bust unless injury bites him. Leinhart is a pretty smart cookie and he does get alot of pootang. (i'm just friends with Alissa Miliano) boy has she grown up!!!!!! think Tony wanted to bang that later in life? :D

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I have been looking at both sides of the argument and I think it all depends on where he goes (short term). Tenn. is the best fit with Norm chow and a offense he is going to be somewhat familar with besides that I can't see him stepping right in and being a great qb right out the gate. I think alot of people that are drafting him in fantasy dynasty leaguges are thinking he is going to provide a quick return for their 5-8 rookie pick. I disagree. I think he will need as much time as Cutler or Young (unless he lands in Tenn) even if he ends up with Norm Chow at best you are looking at least a season before he gets acquainted with the speed of the defense's in the NFL. I hope Tenn. or whoever does what Cincy did for Palmer and give him a season to feel his oats. I really think this helped Palmer.

 

Long Term I think he will be above average but not a fantasy super star. I don't think he will be a bust unless injury bites him. Leinhart is a pretty smart cookie and he does get alot of pootang. (i'm just friends with Alissa Miliano) boy has she grown up!!!!!! think Tony wanted to bang that later in life? :D

 

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I don't even know if you can justify saying Matt Leinart will be good just because he will be with Norm Chow; they aren't even running anything close to the same offense he ran at USC (correct me if I am wrong about that). Also, I was never saying that he was gonna be a Peyton Manning esque fantasy player; I'm saying this guy is gonna be a solid QB that will help a team win games. I don't know if ever will be a Peyton Manning in terms of being the guy you build a team around, but he won't hurt you. He knows how to play.

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Lets just say in 5 yrs, few will remember him, well unless you remember Ryan Leaf or David Kilnger

 

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Hey Sarge, remember when Matt Leinart tore up OU? Let's talk a little bout that; what's your excuse these days?

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I don't even know if you can justify saying Matt Leinart will be good just because he will be with Norm Chow; they aren't even running anything close to the same offense he ran at USC (correct me if I am wrong about that). Also, I was never saying that he was gonna be a Peyton Manning esque fantasy player; I'm saying this guy is gonna be a solid QB that will help a team win games. I don't know if ever will be a Peyton Manning in terms of being the guy you build a team around, but he won't hurt you. He knows how to play.

 

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I think there has to be some advantage to Norm and Matt knowing each other for 3 years and USC does rrung a pro style offense. I'm sure Norm took some things from his USC days and definatly has discussed with his former Boss the in's and out's of Pro Football. I don't know for a fact but I would guess and I should think this has to help with the college to pro transition.

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Hey Sarge, remember when Matt Leinart tore up OU? Let's talk a little bout that; what's your excuse these days?

 

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Take away Bush, White and Dwayne Jarrett, and Leinart doesnt win 6 games that yr. Leinart is a product of the system, and will be lucky to have Chad Pennington success in the NFL. Lets just say I see him as a major bust, and better make his money in endorsements early like Lenoard Davis, because once he hits the field his endorsements are going to dwindle away.

Edited by Sgt. Ryan
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Take away Bush, White and Dwayne Jarrett, and Leinart doesnt win 6 games that yr.  Leinart is a product of the system, and will be lucky to have Chad Pennington success in the NFL.  Lets just say I see him as a major bust, and better make his money in endorsements early like Lenoard Davis, because once he hits the field his endorsements are going to dwindle away.

 

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Ok so what was Jason White? Take away Peterson who he handed the ball to, Clayton who he threw the ball to, and Jammal Brown who blocked his ass and what do you got? A team that can only rely on it's great defense to do anything. If Leinart was a product of the system, that White is the definition of that; and I'm a White supporter.

 

You can make that argument for many star players; It's a weak one if anything. Most star players have someone they rely on. What's Peyton Manning without Harrison, Wayne, and James?

Edited by Goopster24
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...the difference, Goop, is that no one expected Jason White to be drafted in the top three picks...

 

"Paying too much for the productions you get out of a player" is the definition of BUST. If Leinart is only as prolific professionally as Jason White and is taken in the top three, he will be a bust. If he's drafted in the 7th round, he won't be.

 

...therein the difference.

 

PS - Chad Pennington was going to have a decent career until all of his shoulder problems ... I don't mind the analogy there at all.

Edited by muck
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Of the top three QB's he would be the last one I'd pick in a dynasty league. I think short term he will be the best, but 3-5 years from now, it will be Cutler and Young. There is no doubt that Lienart is the more polished of the three, but he also has the least up side of the three. If it were me, I'd take a risk on a super star in Young, and if he wasn't available, I'd take Cutler. The only reason I'd take Lienart before the three is if I needed a QB to play this season.

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Ok so what was Jason White? Take away Peterson who he handed the ball to, Clayton who he threw the ball to, and Jammal Brown who blocked his ass and what do you got? A team that can only rely on it's great defense to do anything. If Leinart was a product of the system, that White is the definition of that; and I'm a White supporter.

 

You can make that argument for many star players; It's a weak one if anything. Most star players have someone they rely on. What's Peyton Manning without Harrison, Wayne, and James?

 

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Hey d*ouche you just proved my point, Jason white isnt in the NFL, is he.

 

 

BTW, what did Vince Young have around him, nothing compared to what Matt or White had. If Matt was the QB for Texas, they dont win 6 games. Is that a better analogy for you.

Edited by Sgt. Ryan
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I'll take every QB in the draft this year over Vince Young...

 

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You sir are an idiot. I can see an argument for Lienart and even Cutler (though personally I'd rather have Young), but not for anyone else. I hope your team is as inept in the art of drafting as you are. Oh wait, never mind they are.

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Hey d*ouche you just proved my point, Jason white isnt in the NFL, is he.

BTW, what did Vince Young have around him, nothing compared to what Matt or White had.  If Matt was the QB for Texas, they dont win 6 games. Is that a better analogy for you.

 

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Why am I a d*ouche, because I disagree with you? Sarge man, you need to chillax.

 

As for that analogy, it's a good one, I applaud you for thinking of that :D. That said though, Texas designed their offense around Vince Young; USC didn't do that with Leinart (and obviously they didn't need to). I don't think Leinart is a "franchise" quarterback, but he will help a team more than Vince Young. Vince Young was a man among boys; it won't be like that in the NFL.

 

Besides, Leinart is a heck of a lot smarter than Young; betcha you didn't figure that one out did you Sarge :D?

Edited by Goopster24
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Outside of Haloti(Oregon), how many first rounders will Leinart have faced over the last 2 years on the defensive side of the ball?  Not many over the last 3 drafts, if any....they all played for USC.  guess he saw them in practice everyday.

 

I haven't heard too much about it, but the Pac 10 has produced some first and 2nd round offensive talent over the last few years who haven't fared well(Arrington, Boller, Reggie Williams, etc).  I think leinart will be a solid NFL QB, but he stepped into a pretty good situation at USC and never had to play behind an inferior offensive line.  He looks textbook on most throws with no one within 2-3 yards of him in most cases.

 

Leinart is the most NFL ready, but long term I think I'd take the gamble on Vince..but Vince might get himself killed and end up being McNair all over again...constantly on the injury report...not sure if he's as tough though.

 

Saying all that, he reminds me of a bigger Drew Brees.  He had the same knocks on his game without alll the awards.

 

From Scouts inc.

Sounds like a scouting report on Leinart

 

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Come on ... Leinart played against the best talent in the country, every week!.

PAC-10 :D = Conference Of Champions!! :D

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