myhousekey Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 SAINTS ACQUIRE NEW ENGLAND WR BETHEL JOHNSON IN TRADE FOR DT JOHNATHAN SULLIVAN For Immediate Release: June 5, 2006 The New Orleans Saints have acquired WR Bethel Johnson by trading DT Johnathan Sullivan in a deal completed with New England Patriots today. The trade, which is not yet final, is pending league approval. Entering his fourth season, Johnson (5-11, 200) was a second-round pick by the Patriots in 2003. He has played in 39 contests with seven starts in his career and has notched 30 receptions for 450 yards and four touchdowns. Johnson has also been one of the NFL's best kick return specialists since joining New England, returning 102 kicks for 2,557 yards (25.1 avg.) and a pair of TDs. Sullivan is entering his fourth season. He played in 15 games in 2005 without a start and had 42 tackles. His totals since being drafted in the first round of 2003 include 66 solo stops, 1.5 sacks and a forced fumble in the 36 career contests he appeared in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) Chad Jackson's dynasty value, as if it weren't high enough, just took yet another jump. Edit: Unless of course Reche Caldwell is totally impressive... even still, one less young-ish WR for Jackson to compete with. Edited June 5, 2006 by darin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Chad Jackson's dynasty value, as if it weren't high enough, just took yet another jump. LMAO, why is that darin3. Is this Florida WR going to different than 90% of the rest of the flops in the NFL. Its not like those didnt have starting opportunities or a decent offense to excel in as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 To think we could have had Barnett and another 1st rounder that year if we had not traded up still pisses me off. They could have had Trufant as well after the move. LMAO, why is that darin3. Is this Florida WR going to different than 90% of the rest of the flops in the NFL. Its not like those didnt have starting opportunities or a decent offense to excel in as well. I think he has a better shot mostly because he's not coming out of Spurriers offense. That's still not to say he won't flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 this is a nice deal for us....we desperately need some depth at the nose...someone to spell vince wilfork... bethel johnson was a failure in our oranization...one known for having hard working players who are proffessional and have discipline....whereas jonathan sullivan was underachieving on a team that was basically takin hostage by the players....hopefully havin big sey around will make him step it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhousekey Posted June 5, 2006 Author Share Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) To think we could have had Barnett and another 1st rounder that year if we had not traded up still pisses me off. They could have had Trufant as well after the move. Sullivan finally showed up to camp this season at a semi-decent weight but was still fatigued during practice from what I've read. I'm hoping the Saints took an opportunity to "Sell high" here as he's been nothing but the biggest bum since we drafted him. Of course we didn't get much in return. ...whereas jonathan sullivan was underachieving on a team that was basically takin hostage by the players....hopefully havin big sey around will make him step it up You obviously haven't been following Sullivan's career as a Saint. The only thing he excelled at was clearing off a buffett table. Edited June 5, 2006 by myhousekey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 this is a nice deal for us....we desperately need some depth at the nose...someone to spell vince wilfork... bethel johnson was a failure in our oranization...one known for having hard working players who are proffessional and have discipline....whereas jonathan sullivan was underachieving on a team that was basically takin hostage by the players....hopefully havin big sey around will make him step it up I doubt Johnson even makes our team. I was hoping they would at least get a pick out of Sully when they traded him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 You obviously haven't been following Sullivan's career as a Saint. The only thing he excelled at was clearing off a buffett table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Sullivan finally showed up to camp this season at a semi-decent weight but was still fatigued during practice from what I've read. I'm hoping the Saints took an opportunity to "Sell high" here as he's been nothing but the biggest bum since we drafted him. You obviously haven't been following Sullivan's career as a Saint. The only thing he excelled at was clearing off a buffett table. you obviously have reading comprehension problems....i was saying that bethel johnson was underachieving in new england....thats pretty hard to do....whereas sullivan was underachieving in new orleans...i mean if sullivan was playing in philly or dallas and was doing the same stuff...id say hes probably hopeless....but hes salvageable considering he came from new orleans/haslett regime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) Good old Private Goofy, at it again. Caldwell's a UoF alum, too, twit. Darrell Jackson... oh yeah, huge flop there. Travis Taylor, while somewhat floppish, has really been in the wrong situations. Is this nutjob seriously comparing Jackson to the likes of Taylor Jacobs and Jabar Gaffney? I sure hope not. Caldwell, What has Caldwell ever done, and better yet what has any Wr outside of Darrell Jackson done from Florida. So what is the right situation for Taylor, hes playing for Minny and cant get it done in that pass happy offense, after years in baltimore of not being about to be the #1 wr, even though he was drafted in the top 10 overall. And yeah Im comparing Jackson to Travis Taylor and Jabar Gaffney as both were drafted higher than Jackson was, and both were just as hyped coming out of school. Edited June 5, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Caldwell, What has Caldwell ever done, and better yet what has any Wr outside of Darrell Jackson done from Florida. So what is the right situation for Taylor, hes playing for Minny and cant get it done in that pass happy offense, after years in baltimore of not being about to be the #1 wr, even though he was drafted in the top 10 overall. And yeah Im comparing Jackson to Travis Taylor and Jabar Gaffney as both were drafted higher than Jackson was, and both were just as hyped coming out of school. taylor and gaffney never played in a complicated or disciplined offense that required them to read coverages and read defensive backs technique in order to run a route...and they never succeeded in such an offense and earned praise for their work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) taylor and gaffney never played in a complicated or disciplined offense that required them to read coverages and read defensive backs technique in order to run a route...and they never succeeded in such an offense and earned praise for their work Urban Meyers offense looks like the Fun and Gun II, to me. In fact the only difference is players are taught to sit in a zone rather than just running routes. Either way if you are telling me I can spend the next 10 yrs making 7 figures if I spend some time in the film room learning how to read defenses, and extra time practicing to gurantee a nice contract to set me up for life, I think Id do it. Its unfortunate, A) either those players were a product of the system, like Spurriers or Meyers offense, and they didnt have the talent to play at this level, or they had talent, but didnt have the work ethic to succeed. Edited June 5, 2006 by Sgt. Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Urban Meyers offense looks like the Fun and Gun II, to me. In fact the only difference is players are taught to sit in a zone rather than just running routes. Either way if you are telling me I can spend the next 10 yrs making 7 figures if I spend some time in the film room learning how to read defenses, and extra time practicing to gurantee a nice contract to set me up for life, I think Id do it. Its unfortunate, A) either those players were a product of the system, like Spurriers or Meyers offense, and they didnt have the talent to play at this level, or they had talent, but didnt have the work ethic to succeed. urban meyers offense may look like fun and gun 2 to you...but bill belichick spent quite some time down there recently...even giving billy donovans gators a pep talk during the tourney....bill spent quite some time picking urbans brain about the spread...and in doing so got a good look at the players...i highly doubt bill ever spent time drawing x's and o's with the ole ball coach...urban meyer even stated that he asked bill question about how to get guys to work so hard and well together...and he said all bill wanted to do was draw up plays with urban...his offense requires reading coverages and db's technique in order to run a route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 FWIW I'm a Gators fan & until they prove they can cut the mustard in the NFL I wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole...but that's getting way off subject. Sullivan does have a bit more upside & actually does fulfill a need in NE, so I would say NE got the better end of the deal given Johnson was junk anyway. But in the end I don't think Sully will ever be able to get over his motivation problems. He's fat & lazy, always has been & always will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) FWIW I'm a Gators fan & until they prove they can cut the mustard in the NFL I wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole...but that's getting way off subject. Sullivan does have a bit more upside & actually does fulfill a need in NE, so I would say NE got the better end of the deal given Johnson was junk anyway. But in the end I don't think Sully will ever be able to get over his motivation problems. He's fat & lazy, always has been & always will be. well yeah..i wouldnt touch a penn state rb either...but larry johnson is blowing the door of that whole thing....that whole "dont touch certain positions from certain schools" thing is so ridiculous id say we got the better end of the deal because really, bethel johnson wasnt going to make our final roster anyway....and while sullivan may be fat and lazy...hell be asked to hold at the point of attack and let other guys make plays....instead of having to penetrate to make plays Edited June 5, 2006 by forever in debt to mo lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 well yeah..i wouldnt touch a penn state rb either...but larry johnson is blowing the door of that whole thing....that whole "dont touch certain positions from certain schools" thing is so ridiculous Would you agree that it's more about the system they played in than the players themselves? That is the point I am trying to make about UF WRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Would you agree that it's more about the system they played in than the players themselves? That is the point I am trying to make about UF WRs. yeah id agree with that...but i think its ridiculous for someone to call meyers offense fun and gun 2..and already want to lump chad jackson in there with guys who played under spurrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Would you agree that it's more about the system they played in than the players themselves? That is the point I am trying to make about UF WRs. All I know is that Chad Jackson looked flippin' awesome in the combines and the pre-combine stuff they had on ESPN and the NFL Network. His stock did rise significantly during that time. And he went to the Patriots, where they got that Tom Brady dude passing the rock. I'm not saying Jackson is the next Randy Moss or TO or Jerry Rice. He very well could flop. But then again, with Johnson off the roster, it gives him more opportunity to produce right away. Sure, the system has a lot to do with it... but you gotta consider the pure and basic talent a guy has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Would you agree that it's more about the system they played in than the players themselves? That is the point I am trying to make about UF WRs. Sometimes. You could certainly (and should certainly) attribute a percentage of Larry Johnson's success to the system he is in, particularly looking at what Derrick Blaylock did behind that line and what Priest Holmes did behind that line. LJ is better than both Priest and Blaylock, but you still have to give a lot of credit to the O as a whole. Chad Jackson has a much better chance to succeed than Travis Taylor and Jabbar Gaffney. I think you have to give an edge to having a QB like Brady tossing you the ball over the likes of Brad Johnson, Kyle Boller, and David Carr. So long as he can run his routes right, he will learn the NFL and find success in NE's spread the ball around offense. I wouldn't expect hugh numbers from the guy, though. Nobody catching passes in the NE offense is going to have really big numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 (edited) All I know is that Chad Jackson looked flippin' awesome in the combines and the pre-combine stuff they had on ESPN and the NFL Network. His stock did rise significantly during that time. And he went to the Patriots, where they got that Tom Brady dude passing the rock. I'm not saying Jackson is the next Randy Moss or TO or Jerry Rice. He very well could flop. But then again, with Johnson off the roster, it gives him more opportunity to produce right away. Sure, the system has a lot to do with it... but you gotta consider the pure and basic talent a guy has. Still off-topic, but Tom Brady 'passing the rock' does not equate to great fantasy numbers which is probably the best reason to let someone else take Jackson too early in fantasy drafts this year. Edit for choice of words, he may have good fantasy numbers Edited June 5, 2006 by rajncajn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Still off-topic, but Tom Brady 'passing the rock' does not equate to great fantasy numbers which is probably the best reason to let someone else take Jackson too early in fantasy drafts this year. Edit for choice of words, he may have good fantasy numbers I'll agree with that. And I was speaking about DYNASTY leagues. Re-draft... SURE, let someone take him too early... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Isn't Sullivan the guy who was double-fisting cheeseburgers off a media buffet table while inactive for a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Ryan Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 All I know is that Chad Jackson looked flippin' awesome in the combines and the pre-combine stuff they had on ESPN and the NFL Network. His stock did rise significantly during that time. And he went to the Patriots, where they got that Tom Brady dude passing the rock. I'm not saying Jackson is the next Randy Moss or TO or Jerry Rice. He very well could flop. But then again, with Johnson off the roster, it gives him more opportunity to produce right away. Sure, the system has a lot to do with it... but you gotta consider the pure and basic talent a guy has. What Wr looked bad at the combine, thats a place they all basically shine because they dont have anyone in front of them when they are catching balls, and are in shorts running their 40 times. Jackson has great straight line speed, no question but so does Bethal Johnson who was also drafted in round 2 a couple of yrs back by New england, and he had tom Brady throwing to him too. And Jacksons draft stock rose significantly? How so, he dropped completely out of round 1, as most had him going to Denver at 1.15, then he slid till the middle of round 2, until New england traded up to get him. They even passed on him once, so it wasnt like he was their #1 target by any stretch. Im not saying he will be a bust, but the dude has shown nothing more than any other Florida Wr to point, and isnt any faster than behtal johnson who they just traded, who had tom brady throwing the rock to him. Still off-topic, but Tom Brady 'passing the rock' does not equate to great fantasy numbers which is probably the best reason to let someone else take Jackson too early in fantasy drafts this year. Edit for choice of words, he may have good fantasy numbers did Tom Brady help david Givens or Bethal Johnson or even deion branch become a fantasy stud. Um, I dont think so. they spread the ball around too much for any one player to put up consistent fantasy points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Isn't Sullivan the guy who was double-fisting cheeseburgers off a media buffet table while inactive for a game? so? Im not saying he will be a bust, but the dude has shown nothing more than any other Florida Wr to point, and isnt any faster than behtal johnson who they just traded, who had tom brady throwing the rock to him. did Tom Brady help david Givens or Bethal Johnson or even deion branch become a fantasy stud. Um, I dont think so. they spread the ball around too much for any one player to put up consistent fantasy points. No fantasy stud WRs are coming out of NE anytime soon...I think everyone agrees with that. I think the point is more that he is in a good situation to become a good NFL receiver compared to the other 2, and then maybe as a player for another team on down the road he will have a better chance at fantasy success than Taylor and Gaffney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Isn't Sullivan the guy who was double-fisting cheeseburgers off a media buffet table while inactive for a game? That's him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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