Clubfoothead Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 So this year's Porter vs. Burleson is going to be Chambers vs. Driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I actually like driver over Wayne and Chambers over him too at the 10th spot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarge5121976 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I am in my happy place now. I believe you had Steve Smith in the top ten last year and there was a bunch of people busting your chops. Thats why you have a website for FF and they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Wow no Chris Chambers DMD that's terrible man... really terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 Wow no Chris Chambers DMD that's terrible man... really terrible. Which player had the most 100 yard games last year? Chambers (3) vs Driver (5) Chambers - 2005 = 1118 yards, 11 TDs 2004 = 898 yards, 7 TD Driver - 2005 = 1221 yards, 5 TDs 2004 = 1208 yards and 9 TD Chambers had a three game spree near the end of the season that provided 460 yards and three scores. His yardage total was vastly helped by his 238 yard game against BUF. Without it he would have once again been under 1000 yards on the season. Driver went through a nightmare season last year in GB the same as Chambers did in 2004 in MIA. The year that Chambers had in 2005 was right in line with all his seasons other than the one monster game (best in NFL last year). Going into this year, Driver works with Brett Favre for the 8th consecutive season. Chambers will be catching passes from Culpepper unless he is not able to start the year from his shredded knee in which case Chambers will working with Joey Harrington for "X" games and then Culepper. Neither CPpep or Harrington have ever thrown a pass to Chambers. Driver has almost 330 catches from Favre. Both teams will have new offenses of sorts. GB will have McCarthy installing a similar scheme and you know that Favre will just do what Favre does anyway. MIA claims it will use the same offense though they lost OC Scott Linehan. Now Mike Mularkey takes over the playbook and I personally see that differently because Linehan is VERY good at offense. Mularkey in BUF for two years had offenses that never threw for more than 3000 yards in a season. When he was an OC in PIT for three years, he had two seasons of around 3350 passing yards and 17 TDs and then one season with 4000 passing yards and 26 passing scores in 2002 when PIT went to their ill-conceived passing attack (by Mularkey no less) and their rshing game went into the crapper same as their season (best RB that year was Zereoue with 762 rushing yards). The Linehan system in MIA worked towards the end of last year and was quarterbacked by Gus Frerotte who followed Linehan over from MIN and was already versed in the system. Now Linehan is gone and so is Frerotte and with that a "do over" without the mastermind of the offense there. Or a QB that knows the system. Driver has fallen on many boards because of a horrific 2005 season for GB that still saw Driver turn in 1221 yards. A magic year in MIA with one monster game only got Chambers 1118 yards. The biggest thing that Chambers has going for him, IMO, is that he had a nice ending to the season with his three game spurt and that is what people remember last. I see much more risk with Chambers than Driver. Much more risk. And history says that Chambers is about a 900 yard per season WR when he is not benefitting from a system that started to take hold last year and that now is missing the QB and OC that made it happen. Chambers is not far behind in my rankings, but his ranking reflects who he has been for 5 years and what his situation is for 2006, not a hot streak for three games last year that seem unlikely to repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Driver-top 10. He deserves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverines Fan Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I like R. Moss fine, but Aaron Brooks throwing to him makes me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 This year, I'm not sure where to rank DJax. He still isn't practicing, but if he's healthy, I think he can crack top ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 10, 2006 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 This year, I'm not sure where to rank DJax. He still isn't practicing, but if he's healthy, I think he can crack top ten. agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip_Side Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I was starting to question your decision to put Driver above Chambers also, but you summed it all up with that lengthy paragraph. Good info in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 (edited) DMD..... one guy gets me nervous, especially at #1.... Holt. This isn't going to be Martz's offense, but he is being ranked as though it is. Can both Jackson and Holt both be in the top ten? I've also seen people spend a boatload of money on Curtis in dynasty leages, which is I suppose neither here nor there, while Bruce is around, but I do wonder what the run/pass ratio will be for the Rams. I tend to think if Jackson does finish top ten, that would reflect the change in the Ram's offense. To have Holt at #1 as well.... I'm not so sure. Like Seattle, I think it's possible for a WR and an RB to both be in the top ten, but how often does that happen? And to have one of them finish at #1, as well? If Jackson finishes top ten, I think it would be hard for Holt to finish as the #1 WR as well. I have him ranked at 4, mostly because I don't think the Rams will be the scoring machine they used to be, and there are only so many plays, so many balls to go around. Just curious to ask if you cross reference RB's and WR's and how the ball may be spread around.... and how that affects your rankings. I have a hard time thinking Jackson could land at 7 in RB's and still have Holt at #1 in the WR group. Edited June 10, 2006 by Rovers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 DMD..... one guy gets me nervous, especially at #1.... Holt. This isn't going to be Martz's offense, but he is being ranked as though it is. Can both Jackson and Holt both be in the top ten? I've also seen people spend a boatload of money on Curtis in dynasty leages, which is I suppose neither here nor there, while Bruce is around, but I do wonder what the run/pass ratio will be for the Rams. I tend to think if Jackson does finish top ten, that would reflect the change in the Ram's offense. To have Holt at #1 as well.... I'm not so sure. Like Seattle, I think it's possible for a WR and an RB to both be in the top ten, but how often does that happen? And to have one of them finish at #1, as well? If Jackson finishes top ten, I think it would be hard for Holt to finish as the #1 WR as well. I have him ranked at 4, mostly because I don't think the Rams will be the scoring machine they used to be, and there are only so many plays, so many balls to go around. Just curious to ask if you cross reference RB's and WR's and how the ball may be spread around.... and how that affects your rankings. I have a hard time thinking Jackson could land at 7 in RB's and still have Holt at #1 in the WR group. Absolutely I consider everything and as I said before, I considered each of the top 8 for the #1 spot. At some point it comes down to both likely production and risk. Holt has the same QB and what is better - he has a very good #2 QB in Frerotte who was a starter in MIA last year. They are installing a new offense in STL and it is the same one that made Chambers a star in MIA last year (while Frerotte was throwing to him). That all happened while Brown and Williams combined for almost 450 carries in MIA last year. I do like Linehan - absolutely. I believe he is Mike Martz without the nuttiness of abandoning the run. I certainly do think that the #3 and #4 WR in STL are going to see much fewer passes this year - much fewer. And it could even slightly reduce what the #2 WR is going to do but in most any offense and in particular Linehan's - the #1 wideout is the man always. The only question is how much the others are going to do. The less passes overall being thrown does not equate to less passes for Holt. And remember what a shambles that Linehan walked into last year in MIA. I won't even bother going through what Linehan did in MIN with Randy Moss as the #1 WR. Everything thing I do in rankings considered the entire team first and foremost and only secondly the individual players on it. I love Chad Johnson but Palmer is still a question mark and without Kitna there, it could obviously affect CJ. I always love Moss but he has a new QB and offense. Steve Smith is safe enough but he has an actual #2 WR in KJ to share with now and likely a better running game as well. Boldin and Fitz have James there to potentiall reduce their impact. I spend a great deal of time on WR's and my reviews are extensive and very wide in scope (which is why I do not slap up rankings in May for one). I see Holt as having upside and probably slightly less risk than the others. But if any of the above mentioned does better, it will not shock me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Thanks for that in depth answer, DMD.... your arguement makes sense. There are never any sure things, for instance how well Linehan's offense did in Miami, with a very shaky QB and O line situation was pretty remarkable, but can he duplicate that in St Lou? In the skill positions, he has more to work with, no doubt about that. The O line is better too. I didn't realize that he put so much production on his #1 WR in his schemes.... good to know, I was thinking Chambers did so well mostly because he was by far the best WR on the Phins. Thanks for the respnse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Which player had the most 100 yard games last year? Chambers (3) vs Driver (5) Chambers - 2005 = 1118 yards, 11 TDs 2004 = 898 yards, 7 TD Driver - 2005 = 1221 yards, 5 TDs 2004 = 1208 yards and 9 TD Chambers had a three game spree near the end of the season that provided 460 yards and three scores. His yardage total was vastly helped by his 238 yard game against BUF. Without it he would have once again been under 1000 yards on the season. Driver went through a nightmare season last year in GB the same as Chambers did in 2004 in MIA. The year that Chambers had in 2005 was right in line with all his seasons other than the one monster game (best in NFL last year). Going into this year, Driver works with Brett Favre for the 8th consecutive season. Chambers will be catching passes from Culpepper unless he is not able to start the year from his shredded knee in which case Chambers will working with Joey Harrington for "X" games and then Culepper. Neither CPpep or Harrington have ever thrown a pass to Chambers. Driver has almost 330 catches from Favre. Both teams will have new offenses of sorts. GB will have McCarthy installing a similar scheme and you know that Favre will just do what Favre does anyway. MIA claims it will use the same offense though they lost OC Scott Linehan. Now Mike Mularkey takes over the playbook and I personally see that differently because Linehan is VERY good at offense. Mularkey in BUF for two years had offenses that never threw for more than 3000 yards in a season. When he was an OC in PIT for three years, he had two seasons of around 3350 passing yards and 17 TDs and then one season with 4000 passing yards and 26 passing scores in 2002 when PIT went to their ill-conceived passing attack (by Mularkey no less) and their rshing game went into the crapper same as their season (best RB that year was Zereoue with 762 rushing yards). The Linehan system in MIA worked towards the end of last year and was quarterbacked by Gus Frerotte who followed Linehan over from MIN and was already versed in the system. Now Linehan is gone and so is Frerotte and with that a "do over" without the mastermind of the offense there. Or a QB that knows the system. Driver has fallen on many boards because of a horrific 2005 season for GB that still saw Driver turn in 1221 yards. A magic year in MIA with one monster game only got Chambers 1118 yards. The biggest thing that Chambers has going for him, IMO, is that he had a nice ending to the season with his three game spurt and that is what people remember last. I see much more risk with Chambers than Driver. Much more risk. And history says that Chambers is about a 900 yard per season WR when he is not benefitting from a system that started to take hold last year and that now is missing the QB and OC that made it happen. Chambers is not far behind in my rankings, but his ranking reflects who he has been for 5 years and what his situation is for 2006, not a hot streak for three games last year that seem unlikely to repeat. Man. I just love this stuff. Yeah but with Culpepper being in possibly or even Harrington is an upgrade on Frerotte. And it wasn't a 3 game streak even in the 1st game of the season Chambers was getting the ball thrown to him a lot. The guy has great down field present but also is a nice possesion receiver with his speed. I know you've seen the moves in the offseason just like I have but with the loss of Ricky, Brown and the passing game have to take a nice bounce right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Yeah but with Culpepper being in possibly or even Harrington is an upgrade on Frerotte. And it wasn't a 3 game streak even in the 1st game of the season Chambers was getting the ball thrown to him a lot. The guy has great down field present but also is a nice possesion receiver with his speed. I know you've seen the moves in the offseason just like I have but with the loss of Ricky, Brown and the passing game have to take a nice bounce right?? I am certainly unsure that I would consider either Harrington or CPep as an upgrade to Frerotte, at least for the intial weeks of the season. Culpepper shredded his knee last year and I would be leery enough even if he wasn't trying to learn a new offense with all new players. And the system will be very different for Harrington to initially master if he plays (which I think he will at first). I am not downplaying Chambers per se, I think he is a very good, solid possession reciever. Wk Opp 1 DEN 5-40 2 @NYJ 3-21 3 CAR 6-93, 1TD 5 @BUF 4-60 6 @TB 3-50 7 KC 2-88, 1TD 8 @NO 4-25, 1TD 9 ATL 3-40 10 NE 6-69, 2TD 11 @CLE 3-12 12 @OAK 6-101 13 BUF 15-238, 1TD 14 @SD 8-121, 2TD 15 NYJ 4-34, 1TD 16 TEN 5-51, 2TD 17 @NE 5-75 Of his 82 catches, 15 came in one game. Remove that one game and he had just 67 catches or right in line with what he has always done. For that matter, take away his two monster back-to-back games and he only had 59 catches in 14 games or 4.2 catches per game. Those two were his only efforts over 100 yards on the season. His numbers through week 11 were nothing spectacular, it was just his hot streak at the end that we mostly remember. Even then he only had four total games with more than five catches in a game. I don't see the loss of Williams as having a major impact on Chambers and certainly not as big as changing QBs and offensive coordinators. Again - I like Chambers overall. He is a solid possession guy that typically turns in one monster game per year. Last year he had two of them and had two other games with 2 scores in each thought the yardage was lacking in those. I do like Miami's schedule this year. And I think Chambers long term has a great future with CPep but I think it starts slower for him this year and that he'll most likely end up where he almost always does - about 70 catches, close to 1000 yards and probably 8 to 10 TDs. He did that last year other than his one moster game against Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 I can hardly wait until everyone sees where Galloway is this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I don't know what the big deal with Driver vs Chambers is.... I think the one who should be in the top 15 and not top 10 is Wayne... I could be dead wrong...but I just don't like the guy Chambers and Driver should be ahead of him....but that's just me....with WR's it'a more of a crapshoot than RB's.... you always have WR's who come out of nowhere and you're like at the RB position....you have your Gado's of course....but the backs who come up out of nowhere are usually already on the radar as a backup anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I can hardly wait until everyone sees where Galloway is this year... I believe he'll be outside the top 30 in rankings..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 I don't know what the big deal with Driver vs Chambers is.... I think the one who should be in the top 15 and not top 10 is Wayne... I could be dead wrong...but I just don't like the guy Chambers and Driver should be ahead of him....but that's just me....with WR's it'a more of a crapshoot than RB's.... you always have WR's who come out of nowhere and you're like at the RB position....you have your Gado's of course....but the backs who come up out of nowhere are usually already on the radar as a backup anyways... All of their projections come in within 9 points of each other and I have all three as tier 2. Six of one, half a dozen of the other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 I believe he'll be outside the top 30 in rankings..... Okay, a surprise to all less one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 All of their projections come in within 9 points of each other and I have all three as tier 2. Six of one, half a dozen of the other... exactly....at that point a ranking spot above another one shouldn't be that big a deal....it's just a personal preference.... all three are in the same area heading into the season.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Okay, a surprise to all less one... I figured I overshot it a little...but off the top, that's about where I have him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) I am certainly unsure that I would consider either Harrington or CPep as an upgrade to Frerotte, at least for the intial weeks of the season. Culpepper shredded his knee last year and I would be leery enough even if he wasn't trying to learn a new offense with all new players. And the system will be very different for Harrington to initially master if he plays (which I think he will at first). I am not downplaying Chambers per se, I think he is a very good, solid possession reciever. Dolphins' Culpepper impresses in workout NFL.com wire reports DAVIE, Fla. (June 9, 2006) -- Daunte Culpepper did what everyone wanted to see. The new Dolphins quarterback, in his first public workout since joining the Miami Dolphins, dropped back during a morning minicamp session June 9 and saw no one open. So he took off running -- looking every bit like his former self. Culpepper, who had surgery in November to repair three torn ligaments in his right knee, sprinted down the field during a non-contact drill against players not wearing pads. He also ran back to the huddle and showed no signs of being limited at all despite wearing a knee brace. Daunte Culpepper inspired fans and teammates with his progress. Culpepper did not speak with reporters, but his teammates are impressed with his progress. "Pleasantly surprised and inspired," defensive lineman Kevin Carter. "I'm glad he's feeling a lot better, especially with the severity of the injury that he had. I mean, it's only June and he's running around pretty good. So it's a pretty good indication that hell be ready to go full-speed come season time." Culpepper, who was acquired in a trade from the Minnesota Vikings, has been taking part in all practices during the team's offseason program, which began in May. Dolphins coach Nick Saban said Culpepper is ahead of schedule, but won't say with any measure of certainty if the quarterback will be ready for the season opener Sept. 7 at Pittsburgh. But Saban also hasn't ruled out Culpepper playing in the exhibition opener at home against Jacksonville on Aug. 12, either. "He's doing very well physically," Saban said. "But I'm not surprised because I see him every day. Does he still have work to do? Absolutely. Are we ready to make any predictions about his future? Not really, because that's all day-to-day and week-to-week and hopefully he'll continue to make the kind of progress that he's made." Culpepper appeared to be throwing the ball well, connecting on two passes downfield to receivers Marty Booker and Wes Welker. Dropping back and planting on his surgically rebuilt knee did not seem to be problematic. Receiver Chris Chambers was happy to see Culpepper move so well. "I'd rather him go out here and react the way he has to react and not think about if he's going to get hurt if he runs down the field," Chambers said. "I've seen him do it numerous times already in camp so it's nothing I think about. Myself and all the other guys are salivating on the opportunity to get some of those broken-down plays and get a lot of big plays that way with a guy who's mobile." The Dolphins' other new quarterback, Joey Harrington, also participated in the minicamp, giving fans -- who are allowed to watch at this time of year -- their first look at the former Detroit Lions starter. Saban said Harrington has "been a real asset" and defended the decision to trade a conditional sixth-round pick in 2007 to Detroit even though the Lions were planning to release Harrington for salary-cap purposes. "We thought the practice time was important, but we also thought that there was no guarantee that if they cut the guy that we'd get him," Saban said. "So we secure the future and we also get the guy here to practice. I think it certainly enhances the developmental process, especially in our situation where there is some question as to who will be the quarterback, whether it's because of physical injuries and things like that." I still think he will be hurting for the first 2-3 weeks, but for Frerotte... Not that great. Now I'm not saying that Harrington will be much of an upgrade but Culpepper... Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate 2005 Miami Dolphins 16 15 494 257 52.0 2996 6.06 60 18 13 26/158 39 8 71.9 Edited June 11, 2006 by broncosn05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Dolphins' Culpepper impresses in workout NFL.com wire reports DAVIE, Fla. (June 9, 2006) -- Daunte Culpepper did what everyone wanted to see. The new Dolphins quarterback, in his first public workout since joining the Miami Dolphins, dropped back during a morning minicamp session June 9 and saw no one open. So he took off running -- looking every bit like his former self. Culpepper, who had surgery in November to repair three torn ligaments in his right knee, sprinted down the field during a non-contact drill against players not wearing pads. He also ran back to the huddle and showed no signs of being limited at all despite wearing a knee brace. Daunte Culpepper inspired fans and teammates with his progress. Culpepper did not speak with reporters, but his teammates are impressed with his progress. "Pleasantly surprised and inspired," defensive lineman Kevin Carter. "I'm glad he's feeling a lot better, especially with the severity of the injury that he had. I mean, it's only June and he's running around pretty good. So it's a pretty good indication that hell be ready to go full-speed come season time." Culpepper, who was acquired in a trade from the Minnesota Vikings, has been taking part in all practices during the team's offseason program, which began in May. Dolphins coach Nick Saban said Culpepper is ahead of schedule, but won't say with any measure of certainty if the quarterback will be ready for the season opener Sept. 7 at Pittsburgh. But Saban also hasn't ruled out Culpepper playing in the exhibition opener at home against Jacksonville on Aug. 12, either. "He's doing very well physically," Saban said. "But I'm not surprised because I see him every day. Does he still have work to do? Absolutely. Are we ready to make any predictions about his future? Not really, because that's all day-to-day and week-to-week and hopefully he'll continue to make the kind of progress that he's made." Culpepper appeared to be throwing the ball well, connecting on two passes downfield to receivers Marty Booker and Wes Welker. Dropping back and planting on his surgically rebuilt knee did not seem to be problematic. Receiver Chris Chambers was happy to see Culpepper move so well. "I'd rather him go out here and react the way he has to react and not think about if he's going to get hurt if he runs down the field," Chambers said. "I've seen him do it numerous times already in camp so it's nothing I think about. Myself and all the other guys are salivating on the opportunity to get some of those broken-down plays and get a lot of big plays that way with a guy who's mobile." The Dolphins' other new quarterback, Joey Harrington, also participated in the minicamp, giving fans -- who are allowed to watch at this time of year -- their first look at the former Detroit Lions starter. Saban said Harrington has "been a real asset" and defended the decision to trade a conditional sixth-round pick in 2007 to Detroit even though the Lions were planning to release Harrington for salary-cap purposes. "We thought the practice time was important, but we also thought that there was no guarantee that if they cut the guy that we'd get him," Saban said. "So we secure the future and we also get the guy here to practice. I think it certainly enhances the developmental process, especially in our situation where there is some question as to who will be the quarterback, whether it's because of physical injuries and things like that." I still think he will be hurting for the first 2-3 weeks, but for Frerotte... Not that great. Now I'm not saying that Harrington will be much of an upgrade but Culpepper... Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate 2005 Miami Dolphins 16 15 494 257 52.0 2996 6.06 60 18 13 26/158 39 8 71.9 That's how I read it. We'll see what he looks like in training camp, though I would expect the reports to be glowing regardless of reality. Why wouldn't you want a team to prepare for a healthy Culpepper instead of Harrington trying to learn a new system with a new team> We'll see. History says optimism exceeds reality in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 That's how I read it. We'll see what he looks like in training camp, though I would expect the reports to be glowing regardless of reality. Why wouldn't you want a team to prepare for a healthy Culpepper instead of Harrington trying to learn a new system with a new team> We'll see. History says optimism exceeds reality in most cases. Guess so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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