Avernus Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Eli was the 5th or 6th ranked QB in my league last year... the numbers overall are skewed because they count every week, even in the playoffs.... I am not counting week 17 either... weeks 1-16 his weekly scoring went as followed 10 6 39 48 (BYE) 16 22 5 23 22 32 39 -4 30 4 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Is Eli a #1 QB? It really depends which Eli shows up. Eli from the 1st half of last year = #1 QB. Eli from 2nd half of last = #2 QB. I don't think Eli has reached his full potential yet. I do expect progress for Eli, so I figure we're far more likely to see the Eli of the 1st half of last year, than we are to see him regress and give us a whole year like the 2nd half of last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Is Eli a #1 QB? It really depends which Eli shows up. Eli from the 1st half of last year = #1 QB. Eli from 2nd half of last = #2 QB. I don't think Eli has reached his full potential yet. I do expect progress for Eli, so I figure we're far more likely to see the Eli of the 1st half of last year, than we are to see him regress and give us a whole year like the 2nd half of last season. I think my previous post conflicts with that assessment, though.... he may have even had a stronger 2nd half but his 2 most explosive games came early in the season....he was much more consistent in the 2nd half...1st 2 weeks suucked....then he went off and had a mediocre middle and a strong finish with a real crappy game near the end.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Is Eli a #1 QB? It really depends which Eli shows up. Eli from the 1st half of last year = #1 QB. Eli from 2nd half of last = #2 QB. I don't think Eli has reached his full potential yet. I do expect progress for Eli, so I figure we're far more likely to see the Eli of the 1st half of last year, than we are to see him regress and give us a whole year like the 2nd half of last season. True. In his third year he should put everything together a little more and be more consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunysteelfly76 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 In my five leagues he was #4, #4, #5, #6, #7. Definitely a #1 fantasy QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I think my previous post conflicts with that assessment, though.... he may have even had a stronger 2nd half but his 2 most explosive games came early in the season....he was much more consistent in the 2nd half...1st 2 weeks suucked....then he went off and had a mediocre middle and a strong finish with a real crappy game near the end.... Passing stats only. Eli's first 8 games of 2005, he had 1,811 yards, 14 TD's & 5 interceptions. Eli's last 8 games of 2005, he had 1,951 yards, 10 TD's with 12 interceptions. I figure the 4 more TD's & 7 less interceptions, outwieghs the extra 140 passing yards. www.profootballreference.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Passing stats only. Eli's first 8 games of 2005, he had 1,811 yards, 14 TD's & 5 interceptions. Eli's last 8 games of 2005, he had 1,951 yards, 10 TD's with 12 interceptions. I figure the 4 more TD's & 7 less interceptions, outwieghs the extra 140 passing yards. www.profootballreference.com true...he had those 2 ridiculous games early in the season... later in the season, he was more balanced...and threw more picks...but his performance wasn't as volatile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 true...he had those 2 ridiculous games early in the season... later in the season, he was more balanced...and threw more picks...but his performance wasn't as volatile... Did you even look at the link I provided to all of his 2005 games? Last 8 games he had a 344 yard performance & a 186 yard performance. He had a 3 TD game and 0 TD games. His performance was just as full of peaks & valleys in the 2nd half, as the 1st half. He just had more TD's & less interceptions in the 1st half. Personally, I'd take the 1st half Eli over the 2nd half Eli, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosn05 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Eli has to be considered a #1 he is turning into a stud he is progressing greatly and has the tools around him to do great things.... With that said I still can't stand the kid for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) i played in a ten team league last year and he wasnt top ten in my scoring. lets see off the top of my head Peyton,carson,culps,donovan,hassselbeck,Brady are all much better then it looks like Eli falls in the next class with Vick,Brees,Bulger,Favre,Warner,Bledsoe,Plummer, Brooks,Big Ben so he is a questionable number one for fantasy You absolutely can't be serious about this input? First of all you question Eli being in the top 10 and then list only 6 QBs you'd take ahead of him for sure. ?? Then you put him in the class with none other than the biggest disappointment and most overvalued QB every year- Vick. Do you have a clue? Eli is definitely Top 10 and a very good if not great starter some weeks. Edited June 11, 2006 by irish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Did you even look at the link I provided to all of his 2005 games? Last 8 games he had a 344 yard performance & a 186 yard performance. He had a 3 TD game and 0 TD games. His performance was just as full of peaks & valleys in the 2nd half, as the 1st half. He just had more TD's & less interceptions in the 1st half. Personally, I'd take the 1st half Eli over the 2nd half Eli, but that's just me. I just looked at the weekly fantasy numbers...that's all I really need to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 As far as the first half versus the second half, I was talking more about on the field stuff wins and lossers than fantasy #'s. If I remember correctly, some of his big 2nd half games were a result of long Tiki Barber swing passes. I had Eli all year last year, and therefore watched as many of the Giants games as possible (NFL Direct Pass). After teams took away the deep threat (Plax), Eli often looked unconfident and slow in his decision making. He then would get frustrated and try to force something. He threw pics from his own red zone too often. Tiki Barber and Jeremy Shockey would carry the team to the 30 yard line and Manning would continuously stall the offense, forcing either a tough 3rd down pic or a long field goal. At least I had the kicker too. Since I took him last year, I obviously have pretty high expectations for him, I just think he may be a little further away from stardom than most people believe he is. I definitely would not project him in that first clump, and would probably place him somewhere very low in my top ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 (edited) I think he is a definate number 1 QB. but he is not so good (fantasywise) where he is a automatic start each week. you still would have to play the matchups with him IMO. I think he will be drafted to high in most leagues. I think the kid is even better than his numbers and if I was starting a " REAL" team up his brother and Brady are the only QB's I would take over him in football. Edited June 11, 2006 by Doc Holliday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Eli started out last season ON FIRE, before teams realized he could only throw to Shockey and Plax. The second half of last season, he regressed, and was absolutely inept at getting the ball in the end zone from within the red zone. Decent 20 to 20, confused and slow anywhere inside. Threw up MAJOR red flags, I think some of you are overlooking his second half. I am definitely not going to touch him as early as most as he wasn't even close to startable the tail end of last season. Don't forget Tiki. 54 for 530 9.8 average and 2 TD's. It was his second year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider.Nation Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 But who would you rather have to build a franchis around? Eli or Big Ben? At this point Eli Manning. Big Ben has played well, but outside that game in Indy last season, he hasn't won too many games on his back. In Pitt it is a total team effort. For me, Big Ben lost all credibility with how he handled himself after the superbowl win. Skipping the Pro Bowl? For what?!? That's the venue us fans voted you into, at least frickin show up (barring injury). I may have been misinformed, but I heard that it was to attend the Grammy's.... lame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Screw'em and give me Delhomme. Is he a #1 QB-yes, but there are better options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 At this point Eli Manning. Big Ben has played well, but outside that game in Indy last season, he hasn't won too many games on his back. In Pitt it is a total team effort. For me, Big Ben lost all credibility with how he handled himself after the superbowl win. Skipping the Pro Bowl? For what?!? That's the venue us fans voted you into, at least frickin show up (barring injury). I may have been misinformed, but I heard that it was to attend the Grammy's.... lame! I still don't get how people can say that Eli has been a better REAL LIFE QB than Ben at this point. I know I am a Steeler homer, I know that Ben has played for a better team, but, in their 2 year careers, Ben has a 98.3 QB Rating, while Eli's sits at 70.5. Roethlisberger has made more plays with his legs, and is 28-4 as a starting QB. Though the Steelers have been a better team, the Giants were a playoff team last year, and I would argue that Eli has more weapons on offense than Ben does. Not saying who is going to be better in the long haul, but, to this point in their career, I don't see how an argument can be made for Eli over Ben. I think a lot of it has to do with what Eli's last name is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I still don't get how people can say that Eli has been a better REAL LIFE QB than Ben at this point. I know I am a Steeler homer, I know that Ben has played for a better team, but, in their 2 year careers, Ben has a 98.3 QB Rating, while Eli's sits at 70.5. Roethlisberger has made more plays with his legs, and is 28-4 as a starting QB. Though the Steelers have been a better team, the Giants were a playoff team last year, and I would argue that Eli has more weapons on offense than Ben does. Not saying who is going to be better in the long haul, but, to this point in their career, I don't see how an argument can be made for Eli over Ben. I think a lot of it has to do with what Eli's last name is. You have to go no farther than compare the 2 teams O- lines to answer this question. I mean Willie Parker was a excellent RB if you look at the stats. Pitt has a awesome O-line which in turn makes players look better than they are. Manning and Barber IMO are the opposite. they make the O-line look better than it is. you need to go no more than watch each team play to see how quickly Manning has to get rid of the ball compared to Big Ben who has all day to get rid of it. Big Ben has played excellent.and I can completely understand how someone could make a arguement for him. I just see it differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 this debate is Peyton vs Brady re-lived all over again and arguing it is pointless... regardless if Big Ben has the talent around him to carry him....he doesn't exactly lose games.... however...he hasn't exactly put up the numbers to make me want to take him over Eli.... in fantasy...I'd take Eli over him and I wouldn't even consider Ben as a #2....I'd rather have Rivers later in the draft and alot more upside... that would be if I had somebody like Brady/Delhomme/Eli... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 You have to go no farther than compare the 2 teams O- lines to answer this question. I mean Willie Parker was a excellent RB if you look at the stats. Pitt has a awesome O-line which in turn makes players look better than they are. Manning and Barber IMO are the opposite. they make the O-line look better than it is. you need to go no more than watch each team play to see how quickly Manning has to get rid of the ball compared to Big Ben who has all day to get rid of it. Big Ben has played excellent.and I can completely understand how someone could make a arguement for him. I just see it differently. I watch every play of the Steelers games, and though the Steeler line is very strong, Ben gets his share of pressure. Saying he has all day to sit back there and throw compared to Eli is simply not true. He was sacked 23 times, while Eli was sacked 28, not a huge difference. The thing I'm most impressed with regarding Roethlisberger, is how well he moves for a big man, and his feel for when the pressure is coming. He is a lot more elusive than most think. I hate to always argue for Roethlisberger, but, it just seems that everyone is so slow to give him the credit he deserves. I thought last year's playoffs would have put an end to it, but, apparently not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I watch every play of the Steelers games, and though the Steeler line is very strong, Ben gets his share of pressure. Saying he has all day to sit back there and throw compared to Eli is simply not true. He was sacked 23 times, while Eli was sacked 28, not a huge difference. The thing I'm most impressed with regarding Roethlisberger, is how well he moves for a big man, and his feel for when the pressure is coming. He is a lot more elusive than most think. I hate to always argue for Roethlisberger, but, it just seems that everyone is so slow to give him the credit he deserves. I thought last year's playoffs would have put an end to it, but, apparently not. Perhaps if Ben was a better fantasy QB, one that played on a team with a bad defense, one that had to throw a ton to win he would be loved more loved here. This is a fantasy site you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Perhaps if Ben was a better fantasy QB, one that played on a team with a bad defense, one that had to throw a ton to win he would be loved more loved here. This is a fantasy site you know. true & good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 true & good point. If the running game doesn't click and he has to throw more he could be good fantasy-wise. He has the talent to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I watch every play of the Steelers games, and though the Steeler line is very strong, Ben gets his share of pressure. Saying he has all day to sit back there and throw compared to Eli is simply not true. He was sacked 23 times, while Eli was sacked 28, not a huge difference. The thing I'm most impressed with regarding Roethlisberger, is how well he moves for a big man, and his feel for when the pressure is coming. He is a lot more elusive than most think. I hate to always argue for Roethlisberger, but, it just seems that everyone is so slow to give him the credit he deserves. I thought last year's playoffs would have put an end to it, but, apparently not. Well, the fact that Big Ben was sacked only 5 less times behind that line once again tells ya what you need to know IMO. I don't think it is the fact that he does not get credit, because he gets all kinds of credit. it's just some people want him to get credit as 1 of the best QB's in the league.and he is not there yet IMO. I think this year will be a big tell-tale year about Big ben. I think the Steelers rely on him this year more than they have in the past. it should be a very interesting for Big Ben fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 <ahem> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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