Abnormally High Number of RBBCs and sticky RB situations this year

[Bronco Billy]

BB -- was Hook's sarcastic jab really lost on you? That's hard to believe. He was referring to Clarett, which really was one of the silliest, most arrogant picks I've ever seen.

 

 

I'm sorry, I must be incredibly dense. I didn't see one reference to Clarett, Denver, or Shanahan anywhere in CH's response. I even did a search for Clarett with CaptainHook for the past 7 days, and got no hits. In short, what the hell are you talking about?

 

If we want to start lambasting Shanahan for burning a 3rd rounder - albeit a compensatory 3rd rounder - on a piece of human waste like Clarett, then you'd better be prepared to stand in line, because I lead that parade last year around this time. I'm not like CH where I'm blinded by my loyalty to the team of which I'm a fan. I'm willing to sharply critique DEN when it's warranted instead of letting my homer glasses cloud my judgment.

 

 

 

 

It's impossible to say how good or bad Addai will be in the NFL, but it's not really relevant to this discussion. I KNOW Rhodes hasn't done jack sh*t since his rookie year, so I could argue that his chances of suddenly blowing up aren't any better than Addai's.

 

 

Well, let's see...Rhodes hasn't done jack sh*t since his rookie year because...? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

Ohhhhh - that's right, there was this guy named Edgerrin James putting up between 1300 & 2000 total yards as the featured RB. Huh. Rhodes couldn't dislodge Edge as the featured RB in IND while Edge was healthy. Now that's just unfathomable.

 

I do find it laughable that someone offers up Mungro as a competent featured RB in the NFL - hell, Rhodes, whom both you & CH think isn't a competent featured NFL RB, with just last year's very limited work outproduced Mungro's last 3 years combined.

 

However, Addai does have some significant flaws in his game that will be very difficult to unlearn or overcome and will seriously curtail his ability to produce at the NFL level, and we have seen Rhodes, when he got the opportunity to be the featured RB in IND when Edge got hurt in 2001, produce some very good results as the featured RB in IND.

 

If I'm going to pick either RB between Rhodes & Addai in the IND backfield, I'll take a proven productive vet who knows the complex IND offense over a rookie with some serious flaws, especially when the rookie's ADP is 43 and the vet's ADP is 73. Even if they split time, which I think is quite likely, Rhodes is a much better value than Addai, and Addai is seriously overvalued right now at 43.

[Bronco Billy]

That one really went over your head, eh?

 

Mungro hasn't had many opportunities as a starter. When he has:

 

11/10/02 at Philly: 28 carries 114 yards 2 TD 2 receptions 20 yards

 

And in relief:

 

12/15/02 at Clev: 14 carries 75 yards 2 TD 2 receptions 8 yards

 

By the way, both of the above performances are better than ANYTHING Rhodes has done in the past 4 years . . . But don't let that stop you from blabbering on about how great Domanic is . . .

 

Well, then riddle me this, Batman:

 

Why is it that Rhodes has more carries in each of the past 3 years as Mungro has had in the past 3 years combined, where Rhodes has produced a 4.07 ypc over those 3 years while Mungro's has been a stellar 2.61 ypc? And lol at using Rhodes' last 4 years when you & I both know he missed the 2002 season, which is the only reason Mungro even got a sniff of the field in those 2 games that you are crowing about.

 

Rhodes resume includes 188 yd, 171 yd, 152 yd, 147 yd, & 145 yd total yd games in the 10 games where he was the featured RB when he relieved Edge after the injury, all of which are better than anything Mungro has been able to post in his 4 year career. When Rhodes was the featured RB in place of the injured Edge in 2001, he averaged 22.3 carries per game, for 95.3 rushing yards per game and 19.6 receiving yards per game, and a 4.62 ypc with 8 TDs in those 10 games. Now, if those aren't suitable numbers for a starting RB in the NFL, then I would strongly suggest that you might just have some very unreasonable expectations.

 

I'm not saying Rhodes is the next Edge - but he's very capable as the featured RB in IND, and he's a damn sight better than Mungro or anything else on the roster at RB with the possible exception of Addai - who again I still think will struggle significantly at the NFL level.

 

BTW - for the record, I don't own any IND RB in any FF league, and I could really care less who wins the starting job.

Edited July 18, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[MikesVikes]

Rhodes isn't a premier back, neither is Mungro. The fact that they have had success on the Colts team leads me to believe that an average back, at best, may be able to produce above average numbers if given the chance in the system. I have no reason to believe that rookie Addai, (even though he has yet to run for a thousand yard season or 100 yard game, but then of course he hasn't had the opportunity) wouldn't at least have a chance to produce in this system. I don't think that he'd see 8 defenders in the box, but I'm not a defensive coordinator.

 

Edge has been given the largest share of his teams carries for ever. Now, for the umpteenth time, we are expected to believe that this system will provide a RBBC situation when one has never existed before, even when Edge has been out with an injury. Stranger things have happened but that's going against the grain in a major way!

Edited July 18, 2006 by MikesVikes

[Hat Trick]

LOL of comapring Addai to James in any way. One thing I know to be a fact, between Rhodes & Addai, only one of them has a 1100+ rushing yard season in the NFL on their resume.

 

To simply cast aside Rhodes because IND panicked and selected Addai - who has some significant warts - is going to provide some FF owners with some great value in upcoming drafts.

 

 

 

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[The Wolf]

"Denver: Hi, welcome to fantasy football."

 

Edit:

[CaptainHook]

Well, then riddle me this, Batman:

 

Why is it that Rhodes has more carries in each of the past 3 years as Mungro has had in the past 3 years combined, where Rhodes has produced a 4.07 ypc over those 3 years while Mungro's has been a stellar 2.61 ypc? And lol at using Rhodes' last 4 years when you & I both know he missed the 2002 season, which is the only reason Mungro even got a sniff of the field in those 2 games that you are crowing about.

 

Rhodes resume includes 188 yd, 171 yd, 152 yd, 147 yd, & 145 yd total yd games in the 10 games where he was the featured RB when he relieved Edge after the injury, all of which are better than anything Mungro has been able to post in his 4 year career. When Rhodes was the featured RB in place of the injured Edge in 2001, he averaged 22.3 carries per game, for 95.3 rushing yards per game and 19.6 receiving yards per game, and a 4.62 ypc with 8 TDs in those 10 games. Now, if those aren't suitable numbers for a starting RB in the NFL, then I would strongly suggest that you might just have some very unreasonable expectations.

 

I'm not saying Rhodes is the next Edge - but he's very capable as the featured RB in IND, and he's a damn sight better than Mungro or anything else on the roster at RB with the possible exception of Addai - who again I still think will struggle significantly at the NFL level.

 

BTW - for the record, I don't own any IND RB in any FF league, and I could really care less who wins the starting job.

 

 

I never said that either Rhodes or Mungro was a feature back. My main point of contention was that you said Indy "panicked" by picking Addai, which is clearly wrong. As you yourself have pointed out, neither Mungro nor Rhodes have had any stellar games in quite a long time. By the way, Mungro has served as a short yardage back for much of his career with the Colts, that might explain his low YPC.

 

If undrafted guys like Rhodes an Mungro can succeed in the Colts system, how well do you think Addai might do, "warts" and all?

 

If you're talking about fantasy value, it's gonna be a tough call. Both backs have had injury problems, and I believe that whoever has the better season will depend largely upon which of them can stay healthy. Rhodes, for all his "knowledge" of the Colts' system, ain't much of a pass blocker either.

 

If you want to blame my argument on this point to "homer" glasses, you'd be wrong.

 

I'm sorry, I must be incredibly dense.

 

Edited July 18, 2006 by CaptainHook

[CaptainHook]

Edge has been given the largest share of his teams carries for ever. Now, for the umpteenth time, we are expected to believe that this system will provide a RBBC situation when one has never existed before, even when Edge has been out with an injury. Stranger things have happened but that's going against the grain in a major way!

 

 

In the past few years, when Edge missed games, the Colts would sometimes go RBBC, using Mungro, Rhodes, and the "other" Ricky Williams. It's very possible they will go this route again. Training camp and the pre-season will be huge in unraveling this mess.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

I'm sorry, I must be incredibly dense. I didn't see one reference to Clarett, Denver, or Shanahan anywhere in CH's response. I even did a search for Clarett with CaptainHook for the past 7 days, and got no hits. In short, what the hell are you talking about?

 

 

 

Hmm...let's revisit, CH's comment:

 

We'll see soon enough how good Addai is. But you might want to check the Colts', and Bill Polian's, resume' on first round picks. It's pretty good. It could be worse. They could have drafted a running back that had been out of football for a couple years, and was projected as a late round pick, in the third round. How'd that turn out? I bet Addai makes the roster. . .

 

 

So, nothing about that paragraph reminds you of Clarett? Okay, then.

 

Well, let's see...Rhodes hasn't done jack sh*t since his rookie year because...? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

Ohhhhh - that's right, there was this guy named Edgerrin James putting up between 1300 & 2000 total yards as the featured RB. Huh. Rhodes couldn't dislodge Edge as the featured RB in IND while Edge was healthy. Now that's just unfathomable.

 

However, Addai does have some significant flaws in his game that will be very difficult to unlearn or overcome and will seriously curtail his ability to produce at the NFL level, and we have seen Rhodes, when he got the opportunity to be the featured RB in IND when Edge got hurt in 2001, produce some very good results as the featured RB in IND.

 

If I'm going to pick either RB between Rhodes & Addai in the IND backfield, I'll take a proven productive vet who knows the complex IND offense over a rookie with some serious flaws, especially when the rookie's ADP is 43 and the vet's ADP is 73. Even if they split time, which I think is quite likely, Rhodes is a much better value than Addai, and Addai is seriously overvalued right now at 43.

 

 

1. I'm talking about what Rhodes has done with his given opportunities. Did I ever say, "Wow, Rhodes's stats as a backup sure suck if you compare them to starting RBs!!" That would be pretty stupid. I watched him play quite a bit last year and...he sucked. You believe it was a fluke; I believe it's more indicative of his true talent as an undrafted, 5-9, 203-pound player.

 

2. I never said anything about Mungro. However, I understand CH's point -- he was disputing your characterization that Indy "panicked." If Rhodes is as good as you believe, why would Indy "panic" and "reach" for a seriously flawed RB? The truth is, the coaches tend to agree with my assessment of Rhodes' ability to be a feature RB, so they took the closest thing to Edge available in the draft.

 

3. Indy has a "complex" offense? C'mon, dude. They run, like, 8 plays. They're good because they run them to perfection. The offense is about EXECUTION against a particular defensive alignment. Guess who will be able to EXECUTE a block against somebody like 270-pound Shawne Merriman? My money is on Addai, who I've seen throw some very mean blocks in college, not Rhodes, who has routinely struggled in pass pro.

 

4. "Significant flaws"? Is Rhodes free of those? Addai has flaws -- almost every RB does -- but, again, it's not the point. Indy drafted him despite those flaws because of his STRENGTHS: running, catching, and blocking. If they wanted to run a RBBC and they thought Rhodes was a good blocker and receiver (i.e. 3rd-down player), they would have selected LenDale White to run the stretch play over and over on 1st and 2nd downs.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

One more thing -- when comparing Rhodes and Addai, it would be wise for the Rhodes supporters to avoid the "injury history" subject. That's all I'll say on that.

[darin3]

 

Hmm...let's revisit, CH's comment:

So, nothing about that paragraph reminds you of Clarett? Okay, then.

1. I'm talking about what Rhodes has done with his given opportunities. Did I ever say, "Wow, Rhodes's stats as a backup sure suck if you compare them to starting RBs!!" That would be pretty stupid. I watched him play quite a bit last year and...he sucked. You believe it was a fluke; I believe it's more indicative of his true talent as an undrafted, 5-9, 203-pound player.

 

2. I never said anything about Mungro. However, I understand CH's point -- he was disputing your characterization that Indy "panicked." If Rhodes is as good as you believe, why would Indy "panic" and "reach" for a seriously flawed RB? The truth is, the coaches tend to agree with my assessment of Rhodes' ability to be a feature RB, so they took the closest thing to Edge available in the draft.

 

3. Indy has a "complex" offense? C'mon, dude. They run, like, 8 plays. They're good because they run them to perfection. The offense is about EXECUTION against a particular defensive alignment. Guess who will be able to EXECUTE a block against somebody like 270-pound Shawne Merriman? My money is on Addai, who I've seen throw some very mean blocks in college, not Rhodes, who has routinely struggled in pass pro.

 

4. "Significant flaws"? Is Rhodes free of those? Addai has flaws -- almost every RB does -- but, again, it's not the point. Indy drafted him despite those flaws because of his STRENGTHS: running, catching, and blocking. If they wanted to run a RBBC and they thought Rhodes was a good blocker and receiver (i.e. 3rd-down player), they would have selected LenDale White to run the stretch play over and over on 1st and 2nd downs.

 

 

All good info here.

[Bronco Billy]

 

Hmm...let's revisit, CH's comment:

So, nothing about that paragraph reminds you of Clarett? Okay, then.

1. I'm talking about what Rhodes has done with his given opportunities. Did I ever say, "Wow, Rhodes's stats as a backup sure suck if you compare them to starting RBs!!" That would be pretty stupid. I watched him play quite a bit last year and...he sucked. You believe it was a fluke; I believe it's more indicative of his true talent as an undrafted, 5-9, 203-pound player.

 

2. I never said anything about Mungro. However, I understand CH's point -- he was disputing your characterization that Indy "panicked." If Rhodes is as good as you believe, why would Indy "panic" and "reach" for a seriously flawed RB? The truth is, the coaches tend to agree with my assessment of Rhodes' ability to be a feature RB, so they took the closest thing to Edge available in the draft.

 

3. Indy has a "complex" offense? C'mon, dude. They run, like, 8 plays. They're good because they run them to perfection. The offense is about EXECUTION against a particular defensive alignment. Guess who will be able to EXECUTE a block against somebody like 270-pound Shawne Merriman? My money is on Addai, who I've seen throw some very mean blocks in college, not Rhodes, who has routinely struggled in pass pro.

 

4. "Significant flaws"? Is Rhodes free of those? Addai has flaws -- almost every RB does -- but, again, it's not the point. Indy drafted him despite those flaws because of his STRENGTHS: running, catching, and blocking. If they wanted to run a RBBC and they thought Rhodes was a good blocker and receiver (i.e. 3rd-down player), they would have selected LenDale White to run the stretch play over and over on 1st and 2nd downs.

 

 

That's some pretty good arguing.

 

I still see things in Addai that can't be corrected & will be a huge detriment at the NFL level. It was the same way with Arrington last year - a lot of people started pimping him in AZ because of the situation and that he gained a ton of yards at Cal, but they ignored the simple fact that he simply can not run through trash, and it doesn't take much contact to knock him down. It was the same thing when Q Griffin was being pimped when he was going to be the next stud in DEN after his huge games vs IND & KC - but Griffin had physical flaws that simply couldn't be overcome, so he became the first starting RB under Shanahan who failed miserably at the job.

 

Addai runs way too upright, he doesn't have good acceleration, and he plays way too small & weak. He's going to have a huge problem running between the tackles with that M.O., and he won't reach the edge in time to get to the second level on outside plays. Now, I could be wrong with Addai, and only time will tell - in which case I'll be right here & admit that I was way off base on him. But he's got flaws I see that aren't learning-oriented, other than possibly the running upright thing. That he plays slow & small in pads will be his downfall into RB mediocrity, IMO.

 

I have seen things with Rhodes in the IND O that I do like, but his injury history is an issue. If that's the case, IND may be on its downward spiral a year or two earlier than they should have been. That O is going to stall a lot more with an extra DB in the D backfield, a SS that can play back & not be making run-reads, and Harrison starting to have age affect him.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

That's some pretty good arguing.

 

 

Umm, thanks. Compliments during debates aren't very common around here.

 

I still see things in Addai that can't be corrected & will be a huge detriment at the NFL level. It was the same way with Arrington last year - a lot of people started pimping him in AZ because of the situation and that he gained a ton of yards at Cal, but they ignored the simple fact that he simply can not run through trash, and it doesn't take much contact to knock him down. It was the same thing when Q Griffin was being pimped when he was going to be the next stud in DEN after his huge games vs IND & KC - but Griffin had physical flaws that simply couldn't be overcome, so he became the first starting RB under Shanahan who failed miserably at the job.

 

Addai runs way too upright, he doesn't have good acceleration, and he plays way too small & weak. He's going to have a huge problem running between the tackles with that M.O., and he won't reach the edge in time to get to the second level on outside plays. Now, I could be wrong with Addai, and only time will tell - in which case I'll be right here & admit that I was way off base on him. But he's got flaws I see that aren't learning-oriented, other than possibly the running upright thing. That he plays slow & small in pads will be his downfall into RB mediocrity, IMO.

 

I have seen things with Rhodes in the IND O that I do like, but his injury history is an issue. If that's the case, IND may be on its downward spiral a year or two earlier than they should have been. That O is going to stall a lot more with an extra DB in the D backfield, a SS that can play back & not be making run-reads, and Harrison starting to have age affect him.

 

 

NOW you're making points that I can't really counteract. Do I believe Addai is a great natural running back? No, not really. But I do think last year's failed Arrington hype is giving him a bit of a bad rap -- especially on these boards.

 

The truth is, it's very tough to evaluate Addai as a primary ball-carrier for ANY offense, since he didn't start toting the rock full time until his senior year at LSU. I saw some things I liked (running through every arm tackle at the first two levels and running through almost everyBODY at the third level) and some things I didn't (lack of pure elusiveness and, as you mentioned, an upright style). So, I don't think he'll match Edge's back-to-back 1700-yard rushing seasons to start his career -- he's just not as good a runner. However, I see him plateauing between 1200-1300 yards rushing and 450 receiving, along with 9 or 10 TDs, for most of his young career. Of course, most of that projection is based on my belief that Rhodes won't take much PT away from him. If I'm wrong about that, I believe neither one of them will be very fantasy relevant.

Edited July 19, 2006 by Swiss Cheezhead

[Avernus]

Umm, thanks. Compliments during debates aren't very common around here.

NOW you're making points that I can't really counteract. Do I believe Addai is a great natural running back? No, not really. But I do think last year's failed Arrington hype is giving him a bit of a bad rap -- especially on these boards.