GBs RB situation

[Bronco Billy]

You should learn to use input from us GB homers the way most of us have learned to use your input on the Broncos.

 

It's pretty simple. There will be a LOT of players taken around the 60th ADP who will be surefire contributors. Even if he somehow, miraculously returns to 100% health this year (), he's still in one of the most uncertain RBBC situations in the league.

 

Secondly, it would be nice if the rest of the NFL had as much faith in his health as you do. ALL 32 NFL teams had a chance to sign him as a UFA. When NOBODY offered him a deal, he actually went on local TV and cried -- literally, tears -- about how he wants to continue playing as a Packer. Then, the Packers waited a while and signed him...to a deal they can terminate at ANY time with ZERO cap ramifications. If that doesn't tell you something about his injury prognosis, I don't know what will.

 

 

Psssssst - I grew up in WIS, and lived there until I was 23, got my first college degree there while attending UW-Whitewater, and more importantly owned 1/2 of a Green & Gold package for 6 years. In short, I'm more than a passing Packer fan. Thanks for the input on that, though.

 

As to his not being signed as a UFA, what team in the NFL would sign him given the nature of his injury? There are RBs who have not been injured and have shown that they can be competent in the NFL who either are waiting for a phone call or have just latched onto a roster spot by the skin of their teeth recently. There's a glut of RBs in the NFL right now - hell, only 17 RBs were even drafted - that's by far the least number since 1965 in 7 rounds - despite some UDFA rookies having resumes that would have made them 5th/6th rounders in seasons past. There's no reason for any other team to take that kind of risk at RB right now.

 

The deal that GB signed is great for the team for exactly the reasons you stated, and they are giving Green a shot at recovering from his injury. But if Green is healthy - and that's the caveat, obviously - he's a far sight better than any of the other RBs currently on the roster, and his age isn't a detriment yet.

Edited July 18, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[Bronco Billy]

Never listen to NFC Norris homers about players on that team. They are notoriously the most blind homers in the NFL. esp ones who wear gay baseball outfits.

 

 

I don't appreciate you calling into question the sexual orientation of any baseball outfit that I've ever worn.

 

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Psssssst - I grew up in WIS, and lived there until I was 23, got my first college degree there while attending UW-Whitewater, and more importantly owned 1/2 of a Green & Gold package for 6 years. In short, I'm more than a passing Packer fan. Thanks for the input on that, though.

 

 

So, should I assume, as "more than a passing Packer fan," you saw Ahman play in the last dozen or so games prior to his injury? If so, what did you see?

 

As to his not being signed as a UFA, what team in the NFL would sign him given the nature of his injury?

 

 

Another question: what FF owner would draft him ahead of other surefire contributors, given the nature of his injury?

 

Answer: Not me.

 

I certainly comprehend your point about the glut of RBs in the NFL, but you're basically saying it's low-risk to draft Green in the top 60 picks. In fact, it's the opposite. No matter WHERE you draft him, the (un)likelihood he'll return to health makes that pick a very risky one. There's always a player better than a hurt player.

[Bronco Billy]

 

Another question: what FF owner would draft him ahead of other surefire contributors, given the nature of his injury?

 

Answer: Not me.

 

I certainly comprehend your point about the glut of RBs in the NFL, but you're basically saying it's low-risk to draft Green in the top 60 picks. In fact, it's the opposite. No matter WHERE you draft him, the (un)likelihood he'll return to health makes that pick a very risky one. There's always a player better than a hurt player.

 

 

That's a valid point that I'll concede. A FF owner would certainly be much more of a risk taker drafting Green - we'll have to see if he plays at all during the preseason.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

we'll have to see if he plays at all during the preseason.

 

 

I'll give you that -- his preseason showing will be scrutinized closely by yours truly. It will definitely make a difference in my opinion.

[Chavez]

If I were a blind, myopic homer, I'd be telling you that Ahman Green will be totally fine, 100% by training camp, and on his way to a 1500-yard season.

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

...not to mention Gado and Davenport would both run for 1000 as well.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

...not to mention Gado and Davenport would both run for 1000 as well.

 

 

...and Favre will throw no more than 28 picks...

[Chavez]

...and Favre will throw no more than 28 picks...

 

Now that's crazy talk.

[Bronco Billy]

Quote from another source.

 

Mike McCoy, Packers cb, 10/30/83. Never played again. Tore it again 7/23/84.

Santana Dotson, Packers dt, 11/27/00. Played 16 games in 2001. that was it.

Steve Warren, Packers dt, 12/03/00. Missed all of 2001, played 12 games in 2002. That was it.

Darrell Ashmore, Raiders og, 08/06/02. Never played again.

Brandon Christenson, Raiders te, 1/2003 during playoff game. Never played again.

Frank Middleton, Raiders og, 10/12/03. Played 7 games in 2004. That was it.

Joe Johnson, Packers de, 08/2003. Never played again.

Leon Searcy, Jaguars ol, 2000 training camp. Never played again.

Lawrence Smith, Bills ot, 08/2005. ????????

Tank Johnson, Bears dt, 03/2006. ????????

Kevin Barry, Packers og, 05/2006. ????????

Brett Conway, Skins k, 09/2002. Played 8 games in 2003. That was it.

 

 

Thanks. Awfully rare injury, but one in '83 & then none until '00, when suddenly 8 occur in the next 4 years & then 4 in the past 2 years? That looks awfully odd.

 

If this were a complete list, it would seem to make Green's possible return to form very dubious at best. That would certainly alter my opinion.

Edited July 19, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[Big Score 1]

I didn't see any NFL players who have had torn quadiceps previously and were not able to recover. My research also didn't turn up many previous cases. Perhaps you can reprint the list of NFL players with torn quads who have undergone unsuccessful rehabilitation, since I missed it. TIA.

Quote from another source.

Mike McCoy, Packers cb, 10/30/83. Never played again. Tore it again 7/23/84.

Anthony Parker, 49ers cb, 07/24/99. Played 16g in 2000, 5 in 2001 for Oakland.

He was the 99th player selected in the '99 draft.

Leon Searcy, Jaguars ol, 2000 training camp. Never played again.

Santana Dotson, Packers dt, 11/27/00. Played 16 games in 2001. that was it.

Steve Warren, Packers dt, 12/03/00. Missed all of 2001, played 12 games in 2002. That was it.

Darrell Ashmore, Raiders og, 08/06/02. Never played again.

Brett Conway, Skins k, 09/2002. Played 8 games in 2003. That was it.

Brandon Christenson, Raiders te, 1/2003 during playoff game. Never played again.

Frank Middleton, Raiders og, 10/12/03. Played 7 games in 2004. That was it.

Joe Johnson, Packers de, 08/2003. Never played again.

Bernard Holsey, Bears dt, 02/2004. Never played again.

Belton Johnson, Bengals ot, 06/24/04. Never played again.

Chad Scott, Steelers cb, 10/17/04. Missed 9 games, played season finale and 2 playoff games, but didn't start them. Played 3 games(4 tackles) in 2005 for Pats. Started 88 of 91 games in Steelers career.

Lawrence Smith, Bills ot, 08/2005. ????????

Tank Johnson, Bears dt, 03/2006. ????????

Kevin Barry, Packers og, 05/2006. ????????

[Big Score 1]

Thanks. Awfully rare injury, but one in '83 & then none until '00, when suddenly 8 occur in the next 4 years & then 4 in the past 2 years? That looks awfully odd.

 

If this were a complete list, it would seem to make Green's possible return to form very dubious at best. That would certainly alter my opinion.

 

Added more while you were replying to 1st post BB.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

FB William Henderson's take, from PFW:

 

For the first time since Ahman Green joined the franchise prior to the 2000 season, another back led the team in rushing in 2005. Green went down with a season-ending quadriceps injury Oct. 23 at Minnesota. After Najeh Davenport suffered a season-ending ankle injury, Samkon Gado went on to rush for 582 yards and six touchdowns to lead the team in both categories. Gado is back and healthy, but it appears the job is still Green’s to lose. “We’ve had some success with some young guys coming in,” Packers FB William Henderson told PFW. “But I think what (Green) has, is they know his consistency. They are respectful of what he’s done in the past. I know they gave him some incentive with the one-year deal, and I’m going to do everything I can to make sure he gets there.” Henderson said the new hybrid West Coast offense was the best fit for him and a major reason he chose to re-sign with the Packers. “It’s a fun mix,” Henderson said. “The Denver blocking schemes, they knew there would be less wear and tear on my body. We’re getting a rhythm down, and we’ll be successful.”

 

 

FWIW, my position remains the same.

[Big Score 1]

Green Bay Press-Gazette

While Davenport was cleared to practice, Ahman Green was not.

KFFL Hot Off The Wire

Packers | Green at least two weeks away

Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:13:46 -0700

 

Jason Wilde, of the Wisconsin State Journal, reports Green Bay Packers RB Ahman Green (quadriceps) said Friday, July 28, it will be "about two weeks before I even get back on the practice field."

[Swiss Cheezhead]

A little more on this subject in the thread I just posted on GB TC Day 1.

[Swiss Cheezhead]

Update from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:

 

Plenty of backs in the running

Packers haven't settled on backup for Green

By LORI NICKEL

lnickel@journalsentinel.com

Posted: July 29, 2006

 

Green Bay - Ahman Green is expected to be the featured running back for the Green Bay Packers this season, but the 2005 season is a vivid reminder that things don't always go according to plan.

 

Green watched the second straight day of training camp Saturday, so the questions about whether the 29-year-old can fully recover from the ruptured quadriceps tendon he suffered last year will have to wait. What is clear is that the Packers might want to declare and direct a No. 2 running back equally capable of a 1,000-yard season just in case anything disrupts Green's comeback.

 

But just whom might that be?

 

There's not really a crowd of running backs in the Packers locker room. But the quality is high among four backs vying for No. 2, and the competition among them should escalate as camp wears on.

 

Curiously, the Packers have listed Samkon Gado at No. 2 behind Green on their depth chart and Najeh Davenport in the third spot.

 

So far in two practices of training camp, the Packers have rotated all four backs with the No. 1 offense. It's too early to make one back carry the load, because they can't afford to overlook an up-and-coming player like Beach. So it makes the competition for No. 2 even more intriguing.

 

"That (backup job) is open," said Packers coach Mike McCarthy. "We're not playing the game today. We're in our installation phase of training camp. So, everybody is getting a look."

 

The Packers are still easing Davenport back from the broken ankle he suffered last October. They are limiting him to about three repetitions a series.

 

Of all the backs, Davenport has the most experience with 43 games. Gado has eight, Herron seven. Beach is a rookie. But Davenport can't disclose where he stands with a new coach.

 

"I'm back and I'm making plays," said Davenport. "You can't really tell what's going to happen. I don't really worry about the depth chart or counting roster spots. I have no idea if they'll run Samkon at No. 2, or what they'll do if AG isn't ready to go before the beginning of the season."

 

Davenport is one of those players whose weight always seems to be a favorite topic at training camp, but he is holding at 250 pounds and 10% body fat. That's typical for him, a few pounds over his ideal, he said, but nothing limiting.

 

He has been pleased that he has been running since February and rebuilding muscle ever since. He has looked strong in the two glimpses of what is a 31-practice camp.

 

But that's been his history the last couple of years. He looked good in camp and then can't finish the season because of injury, so it makes sense that the coaches want to pace him.

 

Davenport's style of running won't change to avoid injury. He isn't at all convinced that running with a lower pad level will help him stay injury-free. A full 3 inches taller than Gado and Beach, 2 inches taller than Herron and an inch over Green, Davenport finds it's not as easy for him to get as low as they do, and he's not going to try.

 

"I'm a different type back than the rest of those guys," said Davenport. "Me getting low doesn't do as good as AG getting low or Sam getting low or Noah getting low. They get low with the intention of getting underneath hits and shoulder pads. I'm like 6-2, 250, and me getting low really doesn't do as much damage as me trying to run through somebody."

 

A healthy Davenport would be the logical choice on paper at No. 2, but Gado led the team in touchdowns last year and has been in the weight room in Green Bay all off-season. .

 

"We're not concerned about who's where on the depth chart; when you do that you start thinking more than you are playing," said Herron. "It's a mental game with yourself that you don't want to play."

 

Beach, a free agent who played mostly as a backup at Kentucky and still got 14 touchdowns, has caught the eye of the staff.

 

"What happens a lot of times, when you get to real football, guys like Beach jump out," said McCarthy. "He plays with good balance, he's a physical guy. He's obviously young and learning, some of his mistakes are just for lack of experience, but I've been impressed with him since we've put the pads on."

 

McCarthy said he doesn't just want to establish a No. 2 back because he plans to use the running game extensively. Ideally, he said, he wants four. But after Green, finding a reliable No. 2 would be a good start.

 

Davenport's standing amidst all the competition isn't unsettling. The fifth-year veteran got his fill of that during his days at the University of Miami.

 

"Yeah, I think everything on this team is open, you know?" said Davenport. "But this ain't crowded. Want me to tell you crowded? James Jackson, Edgerrin James, Clinton Portis, Willis McGahee. There, you're literally fighting for snaps.

 

"This ain't (expletive). And besides, competition drives you. It makes everybody better."

 

 

It's starting to look like the Packers are serious about the idea of keeping four active RBs, which means Noah Herron will probably be in the mix.

 

Also, although they don't mention his first name, "Beach" is Arliss Beach, who has very little chance of making the regular roster.

Edited July 31, 2006 by Swiss Cheezhead

[Randall]

Thanks for the info.

 

Finding the #1 would be nice too.

 

It would be nice if Green was the man, but he looked old last year.

[tonorator]

green practicing, gado out indefinitely ... article from packers.com.

 

Green in team drills

Running back Ahman Green participated in team (11-on-11) drills for the first time since returning to the practice field last week.

 

Green had been limited to position drills and seven-on-seven and continues to progress as expected from the torn quadriceps tendon sustained last season.

 

"Today was a good day," Green said. "My goal is to take steps forward and not have any setbacks."

 

Green looks to have all his speed and cutting ability back and he'll continue to add more reps in practice as long as he continues to feel good.

 

The Packers' new zone-blocking run scheme also looks more fluid with Green running the ball. Green ran behind a zone scheme between the tackles in college at Nebraska.

 

"He's a one-cut back, north and south, puts his foot in the ground and that's what you're looking for in the zone scheme," McCarthy said. "It's a one-cut decision-making process and that's his style of running. He's a perfect fit for the scheme."

 

Green said the goal remains to be ready to play in the third preseason game, at Cincinnati on Monday, Aug. 28. He plans to participate in the full-contact team drills in pads on Tuesday night.

 

"Right now we've been hitting all our goals, and that's what makes me very happy," he said. "Just taking baby steps one day at a time.

 

"I've been very patient. I haven't been pushing trainers or doctor, just listening to what they have for me rehab-wise and sticking to it by the book."

 

Injury update

Running back Samkon Gado, who pulled a groin muscle at San Diego, did not practice Monday and wasn't sure when he'd return. The good news is it's just a muscle pull, not a tear, and Gado said he's feeling fine.

 

"They didn't give me a time frame," he said. "It could be days, it could be weeks, you just never know with groins. It all depends on how you attack the training and the rehab."

 

Gado said he got hurt in the third quarter when his foot got caught underneath a player and his leg twisted. He played one more play and limped off, fearing the injury was much worse.

 

"The rule of thumb is they wait 48 hours before they start doing anything, and it hasn't been 48 hours yet," he said. "But if I feel this good before 48 hours, I feel very optimistic about getting back on the field real soon."

[muck]

And Davenport? What's he up to?

[piratesownninjas]

And Davenport? What's he up to?

 

 

Really hasnt looked too good. I read somewhere that MM said he might use Davenport as a fullback as well.

I am really scared of any packer runningback...

[Swiss Cheezhead]

New, from Cliff Christl's daily TC report for JSOnline.com:

 

The Packers needed a lift after Saturday night’s debacle in San Diego and they got it Monday from running back Ahman Green’s increased workload in practice. Green ran a handful of plays in team sessions and it gave the running game some much needed vigor.

 

One play, in particular, stood out. It was an inside zone run and Green headed for the belly of the defense, saw daylight to the left, cut hard and burst to the outside for a big gain, although it was a no tackle session. “You see how quick that thing developed,” said offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski. “He’s a natural. He saw it and he saw it fast.”

 

The Packers have been running plodders at the tailback position all camp. Green, if he fully recovers from his surgery and doesn’t suffer any relapses, could be the big-play back the Packers need to run a successful zone scheme. Monday was just one more test, but Green passed it and reported no ill effects in the locker room. “Very fast, explosive,” said Jagodzinski. “He didn’t look like he was coming off quad tendon surgery.”

 

 

This could either end up being totally irrelevant (if Green still looks old and hesitant on gameday) OR it could be a precursor to me being WAY wrong on this situation (if Green is actually almost back to his old self).

 

Either way, given the way Gado and Davenport have looked so far, Green is becoming a less risky fantasy draft choice by the day.

[Crazysight]

"So, should I assume, as "more than a passing Packer fan," you saw Ahman play in the last dozen or so games prior to his injury? If so, what did you see?"

 

"It would be nice if Green was the man, but he looked old last year."

 

"P.S. Don't forget that, as Chavez said, Green already looked like a shell of himself BEFORE the quad tear."

 

 

 

Just for the record, Green was playing with tendinitis in the same quadriceps tendon which he later tore last year. In fact, that same tendon had actually bothered him all the way back from his days at Nebraska. Green also said a few weeks ago that his leg feels better than it did before the injury when he was playing with the tendinitis.

 

It still remains to be seen whether the leg will now hold up after he's had the surgery. It seems rather favorable to me right now. I'm pulling for him.

Edited August 15, 2006 by Crazysight

[Crazysight]

Link: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9579390

[Crazysight]

Other than the tendinitis, the change in the offensive line didn't help any last year either. Unfortionately, even though GB has changed to a 'zone blocking' scheme this year, that problem still didn't seem to be resolved during their first preseason game.

[FWmaker]

Read the whole thread, and it was a painful read at that. I don't know what it is, but something inside tells me that Davenport will emerge as the #1 rusher in GB this year.

 

Bottom line, I won't draft a GB RB until VERY late in any of my drafts, if at all.

[RussMan]

Stay away from the Packers. Brett Farve is going to lead the league in INTS, you have no idea who will be running the ball from week to week or if any of them can stay healthy.