Grits and Shins Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 (edited) Over the years my local league has tried a variety of things to make the season last longer and to make owners be vested in managing their teams longer. Back before most (if any) leagues had a toilet bowl, we implemented one ... with the toilet bowl winner getting his entry fee back. Still, though, all the teams were done after one loss, meaning some teams only played one game. Last year we implemented a playoff system were each team plays at least 2 playoff games to determine the final ranking 1 thru 12. This year we are tying the payouts to a team's final rankings: SB winner - 50% SB loser - 20% 3rd place - 12.50% 4th place - 7% 5th place - 4.5% 6th place - 3.5% 7th place (toilet bowl winner) - 2.5% We used to pay for division winners, wild card winners, playoff round 2 winners, SB winner, SB loser, TB winner. Now it is all lumped together and paid out based on your finish. The added benefit is that teams that win an easy division get the advantage of a better seeding in the playoffs but still have to earn their money in the playoffs. Now if you make the playoffs (top 6 teams) every game you play matters as a loss drops you in the payouts. If you are in the toilet bowl, well ... one loss and you are out of the payouts and your second game is for pride only. Edited July 18, 2006 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh B Tool Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Over the years my local league has tried a variety of things to make the season last longer and to make owners be vested in managing their teams longer. Back before most (if any) leagues had a toilet bowl, we implemented one ... with the toilet bowl winner getting his entry fee back. Still, though, all the teams were done after one loss, meaning some teams only played one game. Last year we implemented a playoff system were each team plays at least 2 playoff games to determine the final ranking 1 thru 12. This year we are tying the payouts to a team's final rankings: SB winner - 50% SB loser - 20% 3rd place - 12.50% 4th place - 7% 5th place - 4.5% 6th place - 3.5% 7th place (toilet bowl winner) - 2.5% We used to pay for division winners, wild card winners, playoff round 2 winners, SB winner, SB loser, TB winner. Now it is all lumped together and paid out based on your finish. The added benefit is that teams that win an easy division get the advantage of a better seeding in the playoffs but still have to earn their money in the playoffs. Now if you make the playoffs (top 6 teams) every game you play matters as a loss drops you in the payouts. If you are in the toilet bowl, well ... one loss and you are out of the payouts and your second game is for pride only. Not a bad scenerio at all. APATHY by owners with lesser teams is the #1 sin in FF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 We don't play in Week 17 because of players being rested, etc. It makes for a bad championship game, IMHO. Our dilemma is that with a 12 team, 3 division league (and 2 games against your division rivals), there is always one team eaxh year that you do not play. I had the idea to play that game in week 17, after the championship, and to get people really interested, have the game worth $5 in auction dollars. Thoughts or other ideas? No one wants to do a doubleheader one week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robash Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 so if this were a 50 dollar league you are looking at payout being 1rst-300 2nd-120 3rd-75 4th-42 5th-27 6th-21 7th-15 ----------- = 600 (12x50) i like the payout system and double elimination playoffs, but i not sure $15 is enough to keep a non fantasy jumkie owner going. then i dont know the guys in your league. you could take 15 off of 2nd and 3rd, 2 of of 4th and 5th, and finally 1 of of 6th to add to the toliet bowl winner to make 50. i think getting my buy-in back would be more of an incentive. yes that means they make more than 4th,5th, and 6th...but hey they had a shot at the big money and 7th did not. just some sugestions after looking at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I have personally never been a fan of basing all payouts on playoff finish. IMO, the regular season leaders have demonstrated over the long term (relatively speaking) that they have a more dominating team. THe playoffs only show who has a better 3 week run (based on an 6-8 team playoff format). One bad week and you are out. Hardly seems right that a team could go undefeated in the regular season, finally have a bad week the first week of the playoff and barely get rewarded while a team could barely be passable as a decent fantasy team, get the last seed in the playoffs and through luck of schedule get through and win the larger payout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 so if this were a 50 dollar league you are looking at payout being 1rst-300 2nd-120 3rd-75 4th-42 5th-27 6th-21 7th-15 ----------- = 600 (12x50) i like the payout system and double elimination playoffs, but i not sure $15 is enough to keep a non fantasy jumkie owner going. then i dont know the guys in your league. you could take 15 off of 2nd and 3rd, 2 of of 4th and 5th, and finally 1 of of 6th to add to the toliet bowl winner to make 50. i think getting my buy-in back would be more of an incentive. yes that means they make more than 4th,5th, and 6th...but hey they had a shot at the big money and 7th did not. just some sugestions after looking at it This will be the first year the TB winner doesn't get his entry fee back. We decided it just didn't seem right that a team not to make the playoffs could earn more money than those that do make the playoffs. If $15 ain't enough well then I have personally never been a fan of basing all payouts on playoff finish. IMO, the regular season leaders have demonstrated over the long term (relatively speaking) that they have a more dominating team. THe playoffs only show who has a better 3 week run (based on an 6-8 team playoff format). One bad week and you are out. Hardly seems right that a team could go undefeated in the regular season, finally have a bad week the first week of the playoff and barely get rewarded while a team could barely be passable as a decent fantasy team, get the last seed in the playoffs and through luck of schedule get through and win the larger payout. Several years ago our league went to FOUR divisions of THREE teams each to eliminate the double header week and to still allow teams to play all other teams once and division foes twice within a 13 week schedule (allowing the SB to be played in week 16). Conceptually a nice idea ... but having FOUR division winners really changes things and puts stronger wild card teams in stronger divisions at a bigger disadvantage. It has not been uncommon for both wildcards to have better records than TWO of the division winners. I certainly see where you are coming from ... but this was our answer to having FOUR divisions. I suggested a 2 division format but got shot down. Everybody is hung up on playing all other teams at least once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Several years ago our league went to FOUR divisions of THREE teams each to eliminate the double header week and to still allow teams to play all other teams once and division foes twice within a 13 week schedule (allowing the SB to be played in week 16). Conceptually a nice idea ... but having FOUR division winners really changes things and puts stronger wild card teams in stronger divisions at a bigger disadvantage. It has not been uncommon for both wildcards to have better records than TWO of the division winners. I certainly see where you are coming from ... but this was our answer to having FOUR divisions. I suggested a 2 division format but got shot down. Everybody is hung up on playing all other teams at least once. I totally agree that with 4 divisions, it gets dicey. AS mush grief as Igive my local, I do like the setup... no divisions, just a 17 week regular season schedule, best record at the end wins it all... though wh have had some rumblings about switching to a playoff format, but that would not happen until next year. If we do, I would propose two divisions of 5 teams, makes for an easy 13 week regular season, top two teams get a week 14 bye, 3-6 get to play in week 14. May propose a toilet bowlk as well where teams 7-10 play in week 14 and the winners play the losers from the week 14 playoff games, so even if you lose in week one of the playoffs, you are alive for the toilet bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinalTapp Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Big Country, As the guy who has been stung twice in the playoffs after 1 and 2 loss seasons in a row - I empathize with your point. We have and continue to pay out folks 100% based on final playoff results. Top 6 out of 12 teams are in the money based on how they finish in the playoffs. I have always felt this was a flawed approach. Any owners split payouts between regular season finish and post season finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Any owners split payouts between regular season finish and post season finish? I do this in a couple of my other leagues. In USDA, we would have a prize for the top two teams entering the playoffs and then a smaller prize for the other 4 teams that made the playoffs, then we awarded prizes for playoff finish. We also had a weekly prize that was generally set up so that any of the teams had a legit shot at it, some at the end of the season were targeted to the lower ranked teams such as biggest upset (ie biggest difference in standings with lowest team winning). In Faultline, we gave money to the division winners (also a 4 division league), then prizes for SB and TB. IN a local that I commished through last year, had a similar pay structure to Faultline, though we only had two divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satelliteoflovegm Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 In my small money local we may do a 1 year experiment with a one week double header. Probably week 3 before the divisional games start, before bye weeks, and when you have had a couple weeks to sort out your teams starters. What are the pros and cons of the double header? Aside from the fact you can go 0-2 with bad luck. Pros and cons of the 4 div format as well? 12 team league three div., currently playoffs end week 17 with 3 div winners and 3 wildcards top 2 get byes. We also want to maintain the play everyone once and div. 2x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 The main dis-advantage of a double header week is that if you have players off that week or you under perform instead of losing just one game you lose two games. If at the same time somebody in your division hits it big in that week and wins 2 games you are looking at a 4 game swing in one week. A four game swing in one week is horrible and can be especially so if either of your opponents are in your division. The 4 division format has it's own problems. It takes a lot less to win a division and weaker teams are seeded stronger as division winners. Strong wildcard teams can miss the playoffs because FOUR of the SIX playoff spots are taken by division winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 IN our 8-team league, entry is $200, so total prize pool is $1600 (+ in-season fees, such as $2 for every free agent move, $3 per trade....usually adds another $250-300 to the prize pool). Two divisions of four teams each......payouts break down as follows: $60=high score for the week, every week $50 = highest weekly score for the season $100 = each division winner $125 + 1/3 of in-season fees = Super Bowl winner $125 + 1/3 of in-season fees = Total points champ $40 + 1/6 in-season fees= Super Bowl and Total Points runners-up I like our format of giving a weekly prize, as well as a bigger prize for the Super Bowl & Total Points Champs. Additionally, with a weekly prize ($60) and the Total Points race still at stake in Week 17, no one throws in the towel. Some have wanted a bigger Super Bowl prize, but with 66% of the in-season fees, it still usually amounts to a $250+ win. The best benefit: by giving a weekly prize, it keeps ALL teams interested, all season long....no one throwing in the towel in Week 10 becasue they are out of it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satelliteoflovegm Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) The main dis-advantage of a double header week is that if you have players off that week or you under perform instead of losing just one game you lose two games. If at the same time somebody in your division hits it big in that week and wins 2 games you are looking at a 4 game swing in one week. A four game swing in one week is horrible and can be especially so if either of your opponents are in your division. The 4 division format has it's own problems. It takes a lot less to win a division and weaker teams are seeded stronger as division winners. Strong wildcard teams can miss the playoffs because FOUR of the SIX playoff spots are taken by division winners. Yes a 4 game swing would be tough to overcome in a 14 game schedule. Maybe to the point were you draft for match-ups double header week. Our schedule is such the divisional games start in week 4 or 5 and if we do it the double header week wouldn't involve any divisional match-ups. This is my guinea(sp) pig league but still I don't want it to suck from week 3 on. Edited July 19, 2006 by satelliteoflovegm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 (edited) I don't like the idea of drafting for matchups in a particular week. Before the season gets started you really don't know the good/bad matchups. Additionally I like to take the best player available. If there are two equivalent players and one is off in the DH week and the other is not then it could be a factor. But if you let one week drive your draft you might not like the results. All in all I prefer NOT to have a DH week. Edited July 20, 2006 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitem0nkey Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 this is the one we wll be using. based on $50 AWARD PERCENT MONEY DESCRIPTION Superbowl Champ 40% $208.40 1st place after playoffs Runner Up 20% $104.20 2nd place after playoffs 3rd place 7% $36.47 3rd place after playoffs Weekly Points Champ 28% $145.88 ( 2% per week thru week 14l) $10.42 Per week Week 17 Points Champ 5% $26.05 (just to squeeze one final week out) 100% $521.00 number of teams 12 Grand total $600.00 Minus MFL fee $79 $521.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 this is the one we wll be using. based on $50 AWARD PERCENT MONEY DESCRIPTION Superbowl Champ 40% $208.40 1st place after playoffs Runner Up 20% $104.20 2nd place after playoffs 3rd place 7% $36.47 3rd place after playoffs Weekly Points Champ 28% $145.88 ( 2% per week thru week 14l) $10.42 Per week Week 17 Points Champ 5% $26.05 (just to squeeze one final week out) 100% $521.00 number of teams 12 Grand total $600.00 Minus MFL fee $79 $521.00 Our entry fee is $61 per team. Generally we have enough in transaction fees to push the total kitty up to around $1000. The orginal buy in is allocated: Software fee: $70 Commissioner salary: $60 Winner's Kitty: $600 Then we use the transaction fees to fund some additional weekly and annual payouts: Weekly high score, weekly high player score (player had to be started), best weekly victory margin each get $5. The annual highs in each category get another $5 at the end of the season. Team that scores the most points on the regular season gets $15, team that has the most scored against it in the regular season gets $15. So there is something, albeit minor, to play for each week of the regular season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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