Coffeeman Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Wrong team and wrong player - this thread is about DD - hijackers! Is anyone even taking a late round flyer on this guy?? I'm treating like kryptonite - I'll only consider him on the WW after the draft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) Another example of Fantasy Football causing a slanted view on NFL performances. Aikman was not a good fantasy football QB because of the system he was in, but, Aikman was a very good NFL QB. even when you're not sucking directly on rothlisberger's sack, you're still sucking on it. edit: dayum! you couldn't even wait long enough to start the direct sucking for me to get that crack in. Please give me your opinion on Ben Roethlisberger's first two seasons in the NFL....... Edited August 18, 2006 by Azazello1313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote Quimby2 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Please give me your opinion on Ben Roethlisberger's first two seasons in the NFL....... I knew this was coming as soon as i saw you post in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 As a fellow Bills fan, I can attest (as much as I hated him back then) that no, he does not suck. It cracks me up when someone says someone is "a PART of the system". Emmitt sucked too huh? He was a part of the same system. Thats what makes good players great. Being a part of a system that works for them. Pretty sure I said the "suck" portion of my post was fishing . . . Anyway, the vast majority of players (to an extent) are products of the system they're in. Some shine no matter what environment you put them in, others can still hold their own, and yet others will suck if you take away their supporting cast. Emmitt Smith was clearly an excellent back, as was evidenced by a career-long body of work where he turned in stellar season after stellar season . . . but he was definitely helped by that O-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 "Part of the system" = "I don't want to give him the credit that he is due." "Please give me your opinion on Ben Roethlisberger's first two seasons in the NFL......." = "golly, I wish I could shine that dude's nob!" As an aside, part of the system means part of the system (at least when I say it it does). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Since he is a Pats fan. I am somewhat flattered that someone actually remembers me . . . pardon me while I take a moment for myself. Pats rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Anyway, the vast majority of players (to an extent) are products of the system they're in. As in Tom Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 pedestrian enough to be a 1st. ballet HoF'er. where do you think all this is coming from? The guy never should've made it on the first ballot - the rings are the only reason he did. Way I see it, rings shouldn't be a (big) consideration in the HOF voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 As in Tom Brady? Brady's a product of the system - no doubt. He's also had some pretty good seasons w/o Michael Irvin and Emmitt Smith types to support him . . . Anyway, if you think you're getting to me by bringing up Brady (b/c I'm a Pats fan), you're barking up the wrong tree. The few of those here who actually remember me might recall that I hate Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I don't think that Aikman should be in Canton, but I wouldn't say that he "wasn't that good", either. It's not his fault that he played on a team that featured the run and had good enough defenses to play conseratively. When opposing defenses keyed on Emmitt, Aikman played well. I think that the comparison to Roethlisberger is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 It's not his fault that he played on a team that featured the run and had good enough defenses to play conseratively. Good point, but it dovetails into several other arguments - we'll save those for another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Brady's a product of the system - no doubt. He's also had some pretty good seasons w/o Michael Irvin and Emmitt Smith types to support him . . . Anyway, if you think you're getting to me by bringing up Brady (b/c I'm a Pats fan), you're barking up the wrong tree. The few of those here who actually remember me might recall that I hate Brady. I'm not trying to fish. I'm just stating that Brady is both great, and a product of a system, similar to Aikman. I do beleive Brady is one of the greatest to ever play, and I think its because he found a system that he fits into perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 Wrong team and wrong player - this thread is about DD - hijackers! Is anyone even taking a late round flyer on this guy?? I'm treating like kryptonite - I'll only consider him on the WW after the draft... I'd consider him in maybe the 8th or 9th round but no way he lasts that long in my draft... Oh BTW freakin' hijackers...Aikman rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I'm not trying to fish. I'm just stating that Brady is both great, and a product of a system, similar to Aikman. I do beleive Brady is one of the greatest to ever play, and I think its because he found a system that he fits into perfectly. Agreed, mostly. I don't think I'd put Aikman in the same class as Brady, simply because Troy never exhibited the ability to carry the team on his arm for any appreciable period of time. In my opinion, Brady's been a lot more central to the Pats' success than Aikman (seemingly) was to the Boys'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I'd consider him in maybe the 8th or 9th round but no way he lasts that long in my draft... Oh BTW freakin' hijackers...Aikman rules! Dom deserves to have his posts hijacked - if the poonan could stay healthy for 6 minutes, I might have some sympathy for him. That said, I actually feel bad for the guy - bad knees suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) I'm not trying to fish. I'm just stating that Brady is both great, and a product of a system, similar to Aikman. I do beleive Brady is one of the greatest to ever play, and I think its because he found a system that he fits into perfectly. Comparing their systems during the SB seasons... RBs: Cowboys were a lot better WRs: Cowboys were slightly better (Irvin/Harper vs. Branch/Givens/Brown) TEs: Cowboys were a lot better (apologies to Graham, but Novacek was a stud) OLs: Cowboys were a little better K: Pats by far D: Pats were a little better Coaching: Pats by a mile Agreed, mostly. I don't think I'd put Aikman in the same class as Brady, simply because Troy never exhibited the ability to carry the team on his arm for any appreciable period of time. In my opinion, Brady's been a lot more central to the Pats' success than Aikman (seemingly) was to the Boys'. ^^^ Edited August 18, 2006 by Bill Swerski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Agreed, mostly. I don't think I'd put Aikman in the same class as Brady, simply because Troy never exhibited the ability to carry the team on his arm for any appreciable period of time. In my opinion, Brady's been a lot more central to the Pats' success than Aikman (seemingly) was to the Boys'. Oh, I agree with that. I believe Brady is one of the ten greatest quarterbacks ever. I think Aikman is hof good, just not first ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Oh, I agree with that. I believe Brady is one of the ten greatest quarterbacks ever. So, he's better than Marino, Montana, Fouts, Elway, Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Otto Graham, Steve Young, Warren Moon, and Len Dawson were? Perhaps in another five years, but not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 So, he's better than Marino, Montana, Fouts, Elway, Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, Otto Graham, Steve Young, Warren Moon, and Len Dawson were? Perhaps in another five years, but not now. better than Steve Young?Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 better than Steve Young?Yes. Steve Young regular season: 33,124 pass yds (64.3%), 232 pass TDs, 107 INTs, 4239 rush yds, 43 rush TDs Steve Young post-season: 3326 pass yds (62.0%), 20 pass TDs, 13 INTs, 585 rush yds, 8 rush TDs 7 Pro Bowls, 1 SB appearance, 1 SB title (325 pass yds, 6 TDs) Tom Brady regular season: 18,035 pass yds (61.9%), 123 pass TDs, 66 INTs, 333 rush yds, 3 rush TDs Tom Brady post-season: 2493 pass yds (61.3%), 15 pass TDs, 5 INTs, 51 rush yds, 2 rush TDs 3 Pro Bowls, 3 SB appearances, 3 SB titles (735 pass yds, 6 TDs) Tom needs a good five or six years before he can be compared to Steve Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Neutron Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Steve Young regular season: 33,124 pass yds (64.3%), 232 pass TDs, 107 INTs, 4239 rush yds, 43 rush TDs Steve Young post-season: 3326 pass yds (62.0%), 20 pass TDs, 13 INTs, 585 rush yds, 8 rush TDs 7 Pro Bowls, 1 SB appearance, 1 SB title (325 pass yds, 6 TDs) Tom Brady regular season: 18,035 pass yds (61.9%), 123 pass TDs, 66 INTs, 333 rush yds, 3 rush TDs Tom Brady post-season: 2493 pass yds (61.3%), 15 pass TDs, 5 INTs, 51 rush yds, 2 rush TDs 3 Pro Bowls, 3 SB appearances, 3 SB titles (735 pass yds, 6 TDs) Tom needs a good five or six years before he can be compared to Steve Young. I don't know that I'll ever compare Brady to Steve Young. IMO, Brady is a great QB. Young was a great QB and a great football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted August 19, 2006 Author Share Posted August 19, 2006 Steve Young regular season: 33,124 pass yds (64.3%), 232 pass TDs, 107 INTs, 4239 rush yds, 43 rush TDs Steve Young post-season: 3326 pass yds (62.0%), 20 pass TDs, 13 INTs, 585 rush yds, 8 rush TDs 7 Pro Bowls, 1 SB appearance, 1 SB title (325 pass yds, 6 TDs) Tom Brady regular season: 18,035 pass yds (61.9%), 123 pass TDs, 66 INTs, 333 rush yds, 3 rush TDs Tom Brady post-season: 2493 pass yds (61.3%), 15 pass TDs, 5 INTs, 51 rush yds, 2 rush TDs 3 Pro Bowls, 3 SB appearances, 3 SB titles (735 pass yds, 6 TDs) Tom needs a good five or six years before he can be compared to Steve Young. how about some stats that compare the 2 at the same point in their careers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 I thought this was about DD. I have heard DD is running OK, but not playing this week. On Wali Lundy starting this week. (on RB Vernand Morency starting) “No, he’s not going to start. Wali Lundy will, and then Vernand will play. I think it will be Wali, Vernand and Damien Rhodes will handle the game at halfback this week.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frost Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Also look at what Aikman did in the playoffs. He put up some hugh numbers when it mattered most. What kind of numbers has Hugh put up? Man, that guy is multi-talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 how about some stats that compare the 2 at the same point in their careers? And that will show what? More SB rings for Brady because he played with better defenses? I wouldn't be shocked if Brady played another 10 years and EVENTUALLY became a better QB than Steve Young, but to make that claim at this point in Brady's career is just ridiculous. He's not even in the same league right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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