Bushey Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Jerry Porter parks in Al Davis's spot. Is this news? The raiders deserve all of this. Don't get me wrong, I really can't stand the childish crap that goes on with spoiled millionaires. The raiders however are the poster child of dysfunction and just need to take it in stride. They are a losing franchise and will remain that until Al Davis dies. Every move they make is based on Al Davis's renegade style and perceived pirate mentality. Translation is that they have a bunch of perceived tough guys covered in tats with bloodthisty fans that make for a great atmosphere or amusement park ride, that is until the game starts. Then they are exposed as whimpy, complaining babies that give up after a few 3 and outs. The aquisition of Brooks was just plain stupid. Why not just keep Collins? Why not just start Andrew Walter? They are all the same. They lead the league in penalties almost every year. It is painful to watch this team with the flags flying like parade streamers. I can't stand watching them. Is that a way to plant fear into your opponents? The NFL has changed, passed by Al Davis several years ago. Even when they were good a few years ago with Rich Gannon under center, it seemed that fans and especially Al Davis were not happy due to Gannon's smallish arm. Forget he fact that he was a winner and a brilliant tactician on the field. Well, Davis has what he wants now. Strong armed QBs that lack QB instinct. Brooks could not make it in NO. That's Al Davis's kind of player. For some reason, giving him all that money made more sense than grabbing Leinart or Cutler. Both players will go on to remarkable careers while the raiders twist in the wind. They had a chance to get shanahan's guy and blew it. Had a chance to get hollywood Leinart, a Kenny Stabler type QB that would have brought back WINNING, which breeds SWAGGER. The former comes before the the latter for all the brain washed silver n black fans. It pains me to say all this, because I am a raider fan, but I can't stand what Davis is doing anymore. I will never forget what he did in the 70's, but his time has passed. Go away Al Davis. Real Men of Genius. "Mr. pimp jogging suite NFL franchise detroyer" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Preach on BRUTHA BUSHEY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushey Posted September 8, 2006 Author Share Posted September 8, 2006 I realize there is another similar topic going, but I feel like I had to get this off my chest. It's a culmination of tragic moves and stubborn stupidity that has ruined a great franchise. The raiders are the most reconizable franchise save the Yankees and Cowboys. They sell a ton of merchandise, but can't put a team on the field worth watching. They have some good players, but Al Davis won't let them be great. The SWAGGER is marketed to death and people are buying. Building a winning franchise is secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpholmes Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Jerry Porter parks in Al Davis's spot. Is this news? The raiders deserve all of this. Don't get me wrong, I really can't stand the childish crap that goes on with spoiled millionaires. The raiders however are the poster child of dysfunction and just need to take it in stride. They are a losing franchise and will remain that until Al Davis dies. Every move they make is based on Al Davis's renegade style and perceived pirate mentality. Translation is that they have a bunch of perceived tough guys covered in tats with bloodthisty fans that make for a great atmosphere or amusement park ride, that is until the game starts. Then they are exposed as whimpy, complaining babies that give up after a few 3 and outs. The aquisition of Brooks was just plain stupid. Why not just keep Collins? Why not just start Andrew Walter? They are all the same. They lead the league in penalties almost every year. It is painful to watch this team with the flags flying like parade streamers. I can't stand watching them. Is that a way to plant fear into your opponents? The NFL has changed, passed by Al Davis several years ago. Even when they were good a few years ago with Rich Gannon under center, it seemed that fans and especially Al Davis were not happy due to Gannon's smallish arm. Forget he fact that he was a winner and a brilliant tactician on the field. Well, Davis has what he wants now. Strong armed QBs that lack QB instinct. Brooks could not make it in NO. That's Al Davis's kind of player. For some reason, giving him all that money made more sense than grabbing Leinart or Cutler. Both players will go on to remarkable careers while the raiders twist in the wind. They had a chance to get shanahan's guy and blew it. Had a chance to get hollywood Leinart, a Kenny Stabler type QB that would have brought back WINNING, which breeds SWAGGER. The former comes before the the latter for all the brain washed silver n black fans. It pains me to say all this, because I am a raider fan, but I can't stand what Davis is doing anymore. I will never forget what he did in the 70's, but his time has passed. Go away Al Davis. Real Men of Genius. "Mr. pimp jogging suite NFL franchise detroyer" I thought this was all common knowledge already?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushey Posted September 8, 2006 Author Share Posted September 8, 2006 I thought this was all common knowledge already?? I'm a slow learner I guess. The Brooks aquisition put me over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 They are a losing franchise and will remain that until Al Davis dies. I agree with most of what you wrote, but this comment is just dumb. Last time I checked they had made five Super Bowls apperences and won three of them (XI, XV, & XVIII) and have made a total of 15 playoff appearances under Davis. Perhaps saying they have been a losing franchise for the last 4 years would have been more appropriate, this isn't the Lions were talking about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushey Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 I agree with most of what you wrote, but this comment is just dumb. Last time I checked they had made five Super Bowls apperences and won three of them (XI, XV, & XVIII) and have made a total of 15 playoff appearances under Davis. Perhaps saying they have been a losing franchise for the last 4 years would have been more appropriate, this isn't the Lions were talking about here. I gave props to Davis in my original post. They are a losing franchise right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraftykraft Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Yeah, the Raiders would be a better franchise if Al let them modernize a little more. But Al is still in the Hall of Fame, and he is still a better owner than most of the other media/software/real estate developers posing as football men. The franchise does need a serious shot of discipline though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I believe Al Davis is the iceburg sinking this ship. I dont think anyone will deny that either. He seems hard pressed to make another championship game before he dies, and he's willing to take some serious gambles to do it. However, I think this is merely old age taking its toll on Al's brain functions. His gambles aren't making any sense. I do like Brooks more than Collins, merely based on upside. I think Brooks, if he plays his best, can take a team the Super Bowl and beyond. However, Brooks playing to the best of his ability for an entire season...well...you be the judge of that. Collins I don't think has a ceiling high enough to pump his own gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I gave props to Davis in my original post. They are a losing franchise right now. God forbid they be a lsoing franchise NOW. As a Raider fan, you didn't mention that they won more Superbowl's in the 80's than they did in the 70's. Trivial point? Sure. And they are one of the few teams to even MAKE a Superbowl in in 4 different decades. How many other teams haven't made it to a Superbowl in 2 different decades, let alone win? I'm not excusing their questionbable moves, and of course I want them to win this year and every year. But they are 4 years removed from a Superbowl (loss). 4 years from a 3 year long dominance of the AFC West. There are teams in this league with a history of losing, the Raiders are in one. Big difference. Mayeb we should be more like the Lions. Or CArdinals. Or Seahawks. Or Saints. Or Jets. Or Bills. Your post reads more of a Raider hating, fire starter thread than a disgruntled fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I agree with most of what you wrote, but this comment is just dumb. Last time I checked they had made five Super Bowls apperences and won three of them (XI, XV, & XVIII) and have made a total of 15 playoff appearances under Davis. Perhaps saying they have been a losing franchise for the last 4 years would have been more appropriate, this isn't the Lions were talking about here. Yeah, they've only been a losing franchise for the past three years (13-35) - with 3 winning seasons in the past 11. They are treading dangerously close to the Lions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 There was a time that Al Davis was a football genius. But it's been awhile. I read a book on Davis once called Black Knight - it was quite a good read; Davis wasn't necessarily an innovator - the vaunted Raiders offense was pretty much culled straight out of Sid Gillman's playbook - but one thing Davis DID do was focus on team speed at positions such as FB and TE, and back in the 60s and 70s his less uptight organizational attitude let "misfit" players prosper without having to conform. But to play Devil's Advocate somewhat, it isn't so much that Davis "lost it" as the rest of the league "found it" - team speed is a priority for EVERY franchise, defenses have progressed to where power running followed by the occasional deep chuck just doesn't work as well as it used to, and the football culture has loosened up so that productive "misfits" can fit in just about anywhere. The main problem is that Big Al doesn't seem to realize that if he hasn't been passed by, everyone else has at least caught up. He needs to get rid of his yes-men, hire good football people and LET THEM DO THEIR JOBS. Christ, he had one of the better coaches in the league in Gruden and managed to toss him away. That's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 As a Raider fan, you didn't mention that they won more Superbowl's in the 80's than they did in the 70's. Trivial point? Sure. And they are one of the few teams to even MAKE a Superbowl in in 4 different decades. How many other teams haven't made it to a Superbowl in 2 different decades, let alone win? I'm not excusing their questionbable moves, and of course I want them to win this year and every year. But they are 4 years removed from a Superbowl (loss). 4 years from a 3 year long dominance of the AFC West. There are teams in this league with a history of losing, the Raiders are in one. Big difference. The 3 -year stretch of dominance was preceded by a FOURTEEN year stretch that had a single ten-win season. The Raiders' main problem is they are 4 years removed from a good coach. You're holding onto the past, much like Al himself. The Raiders are merely another team these days - and one without too much to hang its hat on since the mid-80s. Unless you're proud of the parade of mediocre-to-bad HC, underachieving draft picks, middlin' RBs, etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 The 3 -year stretch of dominance was preceded by a FOURTEEN year stretch that had a single ten-win season. The Raiders' main problem is they are 4 years removed from a good coach. You're holding onto the past, much like Al himself. The Raiders are merely another team these days - and one without too much to hang its hat on since the mid-80s. Unless you're proud of the parade of mediocre-to-bad HC, underachieving draft picks, middlin' RBs, etc etc. Not holding onto the past, just keeping things in perspective. Yes, we have had some horrible years lately. And some mdiocre ones before that. But my poitns stand, we WERE in a SB 4 yers ago. We HAVE been a great franchise. Period. There are far too many teams in th eleague who never have anythign but the dips, and very few who haven't. I wanna win as much as th enext guy, but will stand up and defend us as soon as a Raider bashing thread starts up to make it look like we have been the a$$ end of the NFL for decades, which is far from true. There isn't even a team in the AFC West that has anythign better to say, outside of Denver winnign back to backs in the 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 The 3 -year stretch of dominance was preceded by a FOURTEEN year stretch that had a single ten-win season. The Raiders' main problem is they are 4 years removed from a good coach. Correction - there were TWO 10+ win seasons in that 14 year stretch, my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Not holding onto the past, just keeping things in perspective. Yes, we have had some horrible years lately. And some mdiocre ones before that. But my poitns stand, we WERE in a SB 4 yers ago. We HAVE been a great franchise. Period. There are far too many teams in th eleague who never have anythign but the dips, and very few who haven't. I wanna win as much as th enext guy, but will stand up and defend us as soon as a Raider bashing thread starts up to make it look like we have been the a$$ end of the NFL for decades, which is far from true. There isn't even a team in the AFC West that has anythign better to say, outside of Denver winnign back to backs in the 90's. I'd say Denver has as good a legacy as just about any AFC team (Pitt, Indy, and Cle don't count as "AFC teams" as they were in the NFL prior to the merger), but that's off point. I'm not trying to disparage the Raiders' history, just saying that Oakland's time as a team that "mattered" sorta went away in the mid-80s. Shell had a decent run, above average but nothing special, until Gruden arrived, revived the franchise, and was rewarded with constant meddlng. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpholmes Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Your post reads more of a Raider hating, fire starter thread than a disgruntled fan. Agreed. The Raider Bashing just keeps on comming... This is what... the 3rd topic in the past two days?? Nobody starts openly bashing on the Lions, Jets, Bills, 9ers, or Saints just for the fun of it, and they suck just as much, if not more. Every team has had managment and ownership problems in their history. But thats not what people are critisizing in the three topics here, for the most part they're just jumping on the Raider-Hater bandwagon. Very dissappointing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Agreed. The Raider Bashing just keeps on comming... This is what... the 3rd topic in the past two days?? Nobody starts openly bashing on the Lions, Jets, Bills, 9ers, or Saints just for the fun of it, and they suck just as much, if not more. Every team has had managment and ownership problems in their history. But thats not what people are critisizing in the three topics here, for the most part they're just jumping on the Raider-Hater bandwagon. Very dissappointing... Yes, but people don't HATE the Lions, Jets, Bills, 9ers, or Saints, but do HATE the Raiders and their phoney personna and their fans criminal wanna-be mentality. You may not realize this, but most football fans think the Raiders sucked even when they were good. There was a time when you would think the Raiders had won every Superbowl, oooops, sorry, you have, since the first one by listening to Davis ands their fans! There was a time, before free agency, where the Raiders used to bring in the leagues problem children and give them a home. These were truley nasty, bad ass players that had attitude problems. They found a home together in the Raiders and had very much a gang mentality. They were a family of football criminals. Because of free agency, what Davis doesn't understand now, is that all he gets are above average players with bad attitudes and no desire to fit in anywhere, they want things their way, screw the team concept. This is more damaging than any skill set! He thinks he can at least "reform" these guys to the Raiduh mentality, but all he is really getting is a bunch of cry baby malcontents. He thinks he keeps pulling a coup, but all he is pulling is his and his fans pud SAPP? Brooks? Even Moss, what has he done since getting there? Just a few examples of trying to do it the fast, lazy, easy, OLD, well, the Raider way! Their game and his strategy, both on the field and off is antiquated. I used to "hate" them because they were good and kicked our asses when we were bad, and laughed about it. I'm gonna relish 7 in a row! As a Charger fan, I wish the "Ice Cream Man" a long, long life, 'cause as long as he's around, the Raiders will SUCK! The franchise right now is a JOKE! Yeah, I know, "How many Superbowls have the Chargers won" Dee-dee-dee, blah, blah, balh . Old history brah! The Raiders SUCK now! By the way, intentionally breaking LTs rib at the bottom of the pile last year was a BAD idea. It hasn't been talked about publically/in the press, but it is VERY much on the minds of the team. Monday night is gonna be ugly brah! Be ready! Chargers 30-13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Agreed. The Raider Bashing just keeps on comming... This is what... the 3rd topic in the past two days?? Nobody starts openly bashing on the Lions, Jets, Bills, 9ers, or Saints just for the fun of it, and they suck just as much, if not more. Every team has had managment and ownership problems in their history. But thats not what people are critisizing in the three topics here, for the most part they're just jumping on the Raider-Hater bandwagon. Very dissappointing... Just don't it bother you, cuz if it does then how can you have fun at other teams expense? I like to dish it out as much as the next guy, so I have a pretty thic skin. A defensive skin, but thick nonetheless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I'd say Denver has as good a legacy as just about any AFC team (Pitt, Indy, and Cle don't count as "AFC teams" as they were in the NFL prior to the merger), but that's off point. I'm not trying to disparage the Raiders' history, just saying that Oakland's time as a team that "mattered" sorta went away in the mid-80s. Shell had a decent run, above average but nothing special, until Gruden arrived, revived the franchise, and was rewarded with constant meddlng. Denver does have a good history, I agree. But until they won those back-to-back's, I would have to argue for them being a great team (yes... me) after they're disasterous SB run's. But to your off-point point, this is off-point. I am not going to pretend we havn't had 3 bad years running now, but before our recent peak we weren't a league punching bag. We wern't great, but with so many teams in the league who have never even gotten over that hump in the playoffs, or haven't in several decades, it's important for a Raider fan to keep it in perspective. They might not "matter" like a current top SB contender, but unless you are last years champ everything is "history". Perspective... the league is peaks and valleys, and the Raider Valley may look dark now but it has never been as deep as at least 33% of the League's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 (edited) Yes, but people don't HATE the Lions, Jets, Bills, 9ers, or Saints, but do HATE the Raiders and their phoney personna and their fans criminal wanna-be mentality. You may not realize this, but most football fans think the Raiders sucked even when they were good. There was a time when you would think the Raiders had won every Superbowl, oooops, sorry, you have, since the first one by listening to Davis ands their fans! Wha..? You mea.. .NO WAY?!?! Thanks for the Raider history, I did not know that. Yeah, I know, "How many Superbowls have the Chargers won" Dee-dee-dee, blah, blah, balh : Thanks for reminding me of Charger Non-history, too! I always have to remind myself that the Charger's have never done anything. At least the Cheifs kicked it in SB4, but the Chargers... Edited September 9, 2006 by The Vatican Hitsquad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaiderSteve Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Agreed. The Raider Bashing just keeps on comming... This is what... the 3rd topic in the past two days?? Nobody starts openly bashing on the Lions, Jets, Bills, 9ers, or Saints just for the fun of it, and they suck just as much, if not more. Every team has had managment and ownership problems in their history. But thats not what people are critisizing in the three topics here, for the most part they're just jumping on the Raider-Hater bandwagon. Very dissappointing... I agree, you would think they are afraid of our team or something? Look tell us something we don't know! When I joined this Huddle site I had no idea that there would be so much hatred in the boards for just one team! And from I have seen from this message board Raiders fans here like Raider.Nation, Kp Holmes and the Vatican hit squad seem to be stand up guys! They don't seem to be the "typical" type or should I say the stereotypical type Raider fans that are out there today. So why all the bashing??? Ya we have had a rough 4 year stretch since the Big Game and yes Our team prides itself on excellence without the results, but you can make a case for horrible NFL teams everywhere you look! Should I start the naming process...you all know who the bad teams are, infact how come I haven't seen one thread about when the Niners will return to their glory and thier storied commitment to winning? When it comes down to it there seems like there is some sort of jealousy from the fellow Raider Hater Huddlers out there??? Almost Game Time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Denver does have a good history, I agree. But until they won those back-to-back's, I would have to argue for them being a great team (yes... me) after they're disasterous SB run's. But to your off-point point, this is off-point. I am not going to pretend we havn't had 3 bad years running now, but before our recent peak we weren't a league punching bag. We wern't great, but with so many teams in the league who have never even gotten over that hump in the playoffs, or haven't in several decades, it's important for a Raider fan to keep it in perspective. They might not "matter" like a current top SB contender, but unless you are last years champ everything is "history". Perspective... the league is peaks and valleys, and the Raider Valley may look dark now but it has never been as deep as at least 33% of the League's. Do they sell this Koolaid in Blue-n-Gold? I don't think there was EVER a team that had two or three of the lowest valleys any team has ever had like the Chargers. We have been laughing stocks many times and know how to take the shots. Raider skin is too thin when it comes to this and start to scream "history" instead of dealing with the present! Both Al Davis and John Madden worked for the Chargers in their early history, and if it was not for financial support in their early years by Chargrers ownership and then a fledgling AFL, The Raiders would have folded after three years. (Just a little history side note ) The recent valley, as discussed recently on these boards was the nuclear fallout created by Ryan Leaf. That effected the team for 10 years! Management did try to fix it and the Spanoses spent more money than most teams trying to get good. Bad coaching, GMs (Bobby Beathard was another that had the game pass him, WHILE he was with the Chargers ) and didn't adapt. Now the Chargers have arguably a top three GM and look where they are. Solid and competative! That is all a fan can ask for, what plays out in the season is what the football fan part of us lives for! The deepest darkest valley of any team HAD to be the Savare years in the early to mid 70s. Drug scandels, multiple seasons of 3 or fewer wins. I was at a Charger/Falcon game where the fans got so tired of booing, they actually started (sarcastically) cheering for the Falcons! The team did not recover until Coryell arrived. The biggest mistake at this point was to hold onto Coryell too long and not promote his young AHC, a guy by the name of Joe Gibbs! And then another valley in the 80's until Bobby Ross got here. You are right, teams go through valleys. Few if any teams have had as many as long and dark as my Chargers! But not many people "hate" the Chargers either. They "hate the Raiders because the Raiders SUCK". It has nothing to do with how they actually perforn on the field! --------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 ... Thanks for reminding me of Charger Non-history, too! I always have to remind myself that the Charger's have never done anything. At least the Cheifs kicked it in SB4, but the Chargers... Thanx for solidifying my point, history, blah, blah, balh The Raiders SUCK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushey Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 God forbid they be a lsoing franchise NOW. As a Raider fan, you didn't mention that they won more Superbowl's in the 80's than they did in the 70's. Trivial point? Sure. And they are one of the few teams to even MAKE a Superbowl in in 4 different decades. How many other teams haven't made it to a Superbowl in 2 different decades, let alone win? I'm not excusing their questionbable moves, and of course I want them to win this year and every year. But they are 4 years removed from a Superbowl (loss). 4 years from a 3 year long dominance of the AFC West. There are teams in this league with a history of losing, the Raiders are in one. Big difference. Mayeb we should be more like the Lions. Or CArdinals. Or Seahawks. Or Saints. Or Jets. Or Bills. Your post reads more of a Raider hating, fire starter thread than a disgruntled fan. Call it whatever you like. You can always choose to ignore if it is upsetting you. My thread is just a cullmination of frustration with this team. Not selecting Leinart or Cutler for that matter just sealed it for me. I can write all you want about the glory days of the Raiders. The fact is that they could have used Leinart or Cutler. A leader is what they need. Brooks is not a leader, nor is Sapp, and especially Moss. They just got rid of Doug Gabriel for a 5th round draft pick. Why not ship Porter to them and eat his salary for the year? Having players with bad attitudes used to work provided there was some strong leadership. Marcus Allen, Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett, etc... The Raiders have NONE. I am a fan, but I am also tired of watching Davis destroy this franchise. In this day and age of the NFL, bad attitudes sink teams. Last year, the Seahawks hired a new player personnel director Tim Ruskell. He has a history of finding talent and getting rid of cancers on the team. Took him one season to cut the idiots out and bring a winning attitude to the Seahawks. I can't think of one Seahawk that makes news for his bad attitude. They are like the Patriots now. Look how the Pats are dealing with Deione Branch. They are sitting him and found a replacement. Would sure like the Raiders to follow suit at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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