USC

[LiL10(s)ArEaJoKe]

Depending on the outcome of an NCAA investigation, a BCS official said, USC could be stripped of its 2004 national title. Whether the school would be forced to give back money it received for playing in the championship game remains open for discussion.

 

This is from yahoo sports. If SC is stripped of the title then who is the 2004 NC????? Aubrun????just curious....

 

 

 

story

Edited September 15, 2006 by LiL10(s)ArEaJoKe

[Coffeeman]

This blows - I'm fit to be tied. If its true, Reggie and his family will come way down on my list of USC sports heros - I'm talkin OJ level. And he can never pay back what this will do to the school/alumni - even if he personally paid for a new Coliseum. Sad.....

[GWPFFL BrianW]

If it is true the NCAA needs to send a message. USC was an unbelievable team, perhaps the best ever, but this is exactly the kind of crap that keeps a lot of fans from enjoying the college game, and why they prefer the boring NFL over college. Again, notice I'm saying if its true. Thus far it's been investigated by yahoo! sports. That is a lot of money though. I guess I'll never understand how these PRIVLEDGED kids can be so stupid. I don't care if you have a rough life growing up, or your dad beat you up and then left you when you're 6, or whatever... you get to go to school for free, and then have a shot at the NFL, where you get to play a GAME for millions of dollars.

 

On the flip side of this, if a Mike Williams wants to leave after his sophomore year in school, it's a free country, he should be allowed to do that and take his chances on the draft. If you got the talent, and you see the millions in your future, you should be allowed to pursue that, but we all know if this was Oprahing Kentucky, or SMU, USC would probably already be in major trouble.

 

Jerry Tarkanian said it best "the NCAA is so mad at Kentucky, they are gonna give Cleveland State another 3 years of probation."

 

If the NCAA is serious about this, they come down hard on USC. And this is coming from a fan who has a lot of respect for Southern California, and think its wonderful what they've been able to accomplish, but this crap is ridiculous.

[Sgt. Ryan]

Couldnt have said it any better myself. I was all for Stoops booting Bomar if he accepted cash, and would do the same if it was Peterson. No player is bigger than the program.

[giggity]

Well, where there is smoke, there is fire. USC has been in some hot water for the last year, too many little things for there not to be some real trouble. Gonna be interesting to see how it plays out. ESPN radio was talking loss of scholorships/postseason bans if it is proved true and USC had no idea. The ol' lack of institutional control horseoh poopy.

 

:edit Pwned by the filters horse oh poopy. That is great.

Edited September 15, 2006 by giggity

[Bushey]

What blows is that the School has to pay for something out of their control. If a family is negotiating or accepting money from someone away from the campus how is that a school violation? How does a school prevent this from happening? The only reason we know about this is because Reggie Bush is a marquee player. Someone has to start an investigation for it to get found out. I bet if we turned every university upsidedown we could find all kinds of so called NCAA violations.

 

Go after the parents. It's not like the University is writing reports for the player to keep elgibility. These are deals made by adults outside of the school. How about unionizing the Oprahing agents in the world? Make them accountable. What is the school's responsibility? Do they need to pay an outside agency to watch the parents of players? How about making the school responsible for conducting psychological profiles on parents and relatives who are capable of accepting large sums of money.

 

This is the evil part of the NCAA.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

It's the schools responsibility to make sure there players know the rules, and with 100 G's on the hook, there aint no way the school doesnt know ANYTHING. The report by Yahoo talked about the SC Locker room being infested with agents and lowlifes. While I agree, did USC know everything, probably not, but NO ONE can tell me that they knew nothing.

[Bushey]

It's the schools responsibility to make sure there players know the rules, and with 100 G's on the hook, there aint no way the school doesnt know ANYTHING. The report by Yahoo talked about the SC Locker room being infested with agents and lowlifes. While I agree, did USC know everything, probably not, but NO ONE can tell me that they knew nothing.

 

 

You're making assumptions to make your point. While I think that the NCAA needs to do what it can to penalize teams for recruiting violations and such, too much gray area exists in the business of adults and agents.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

you're also ASSUMING, that USC knew nothing.

[Bushey]

you're also ASSUMING, that USC knew nothing.

 

 

I never said that I assumed they knew nothing. I am just arguing that the school should not be responsible for what parents of star athletes do behind the scenes. Where do we draw the line?

[GWPFFL BrianW]

You're right they shouldnt, but the point is, we don't know if it was behind there backs. According to the story there was plenty of crap going on right under there nose.

 

Edit to add: Not only that, if you look at my original post, I certainly wasn't claiming to know any facts that anyone else doesn't know. I was merely pointing out that IF USC knew more than they claim, or that Bush claims for that matter, and if this story is true, then the NCAA absolutely should crack down hard. They won't because it's a big name school and there is a double standard when it comes to the major programs. It's the same reason Alabama only got a little slap on the wrist a few years back. It's kinda like immigration, we have laws in this country, we choose not to enforce them. The NCAA has rules, but they choose not to enforce them, at least they are selective as to who they enforce them on.

Edited September 17, 2006 by GWPFFL BrianW

[Coffeeman]

It's kinda like immigration, we have laws in this country, we choose not to enforce them. The NCAA has rules, but they choose not to enforce them, at least they are selective as to who they enforce them on.

 

 

Very good point - if they take away bowls or scholarships for this, they need to go back in time and do all sorts of investigations of every major program in the country. Unfortunately we all know it has gone on for decades all across the country, and the only reason its coming out here is because some poor agent is out for revenge after having his man p-ussy stomped on by the Bush family.

 

Agents should not count their chicken based on ILLEGAL negotiations that begin while kids are still in high school or college freshman. I don't care how stupid/desperate/unscrupulous the parents are - these conversations should not occur until after the kid has played his last collegiate game - period! What is the gray area here - you can talk to them, but not about money? Can you talk to them at all before then? If so, why??

 

Selective enforcement has been and will continue to be a hugh bone of contention with the NCAA's poor image. Star athletes receive special treatment all the time beginning in HS, but it just doesn't usually end up in the press.

 

But I still blame the parents - why on earth couldn't the Bush family go to any legitimate lender in the country and get a low interest loan based on their kid's obvious pro potential after say, the freshman year? Or perhaps the NCAA ITSELF could do this as a credit union, using the vast database of historical info to make money (or at least break even) on spreading the inherent risk around enough star players in the 119 Div1A schools who would potentially apply for this program? Is it that hard to anticipate that relatively poor families would want such a service, and will be hard-pressed to fight off the temptation that comes with the daily phone calls, emails and drop in visits of these agents for 3-4 years? Damn, they are stupid!

 

How much different is this than allowing star player like McGahee and Leinart to insure against injury in college? WOW, I know this sort of out of the box thinking would just blow their tiny minds. Maybe I should start a business right now...

 

Why did the Bushes rely on a lowlife agent to give them an interest free loan? Greedy and short-sighted for sure - they could really hurt his legacy with this stupidity. I mean, Reggie has already given away a lot more that $100K before the season even started! I've never been rich or dirt poor, so I can't really put myself in either position, but c'mon. I don't see Vince Young's momma in the same hot water. A little patience can go along way in protecting your son or daughters' good name, not to mention your own....

Edited September 18, 2006 by Coffeeman

[Coffeeman]

Dennis Dodd's (cbssportsline.com) take on the Reggie Bush situation. ...

 

The NCAA can't take away Southern California's 2004 national championship. The BCS commissioners, who do have that power, don't have the stomach for it. In other words, they're not going to stare across a mahogany table and tell brother Tom Hansen, the Pac-10 commissioner, they're putting his prize program in timeout.

 

Same for the Heisman Trophy Trust. Ripping the statue has never been done. It is such a sensitive subject that a spokesman wouldn't even comment on it Friday. Oh yeah, and there's a double murderer still walking around with his trophy. How is Reggie Bush taking $100,000 worse than that?

 

That leaves us with USC. There is a mountainous burden of proof on the Pac-10 and NCAA to determine if the school knew or should have known if Bush was taking benefits. In other words, investigators need a memo, e-mail, letter, something that shows the school knew about this and ignored it. Good luck.

 

The biggest deal here is that Bush is out of school. His family is living in the lap of luxury thanks to his multi-million dollar contracts. Marketing agent Mike Ornstein, seemingly one of the culprits in this case, got his client and his money. Who, exactly, is going to come forward and cooperate with the NCAA and Pac-10? None of those sources are compelled to because investigators don't have subpoena power.

 

Is Pete Carroll running a loose ship? I don't think there is any question. The Matt Leinart/Dwayne Jarrett situation, allegations of sexual and physical assaults against various players. It's all getting very seedy out there in La-La Land. Is USC compliance at fault? Absolutely. If the Internet report is true, then Ornstein himself was working with the school in lining up an internship for Bush. Ornstein is well known in NFL and college circles. More care should have been taken.

 

But will USC be found guilty of a lack of institutional control? That's going to be hard to prove because of the reasons stated above. Does this go on more than anyone cares to believe? Yup to that too. Check out Bush's teammate on the Saints, Joe Horn.

 

"I don't think Reggie did that, but if he did, I would have done it, too," Horn told the AP. "And guess what? Eighty percent of the college athletes that don't have much when they're in college get money, too. So they should ban all of them. They should go after everybody. Don't just go after Reggie because he's Reggie Bush." ...

 

 

I can agree with most of this, but I disagree that Carroll is running a 'loose ship', when you think about what he can control. Warning them over and over of the rules and consequences, plus quickly taking care of anything that comes to your attention (or that of your asst coaches) is the most you can do. Supposedly being 'in control' of kids getting drunk off campus and committing other crimes, (i.e. alleged rape,) is NOT under any coach's control. That part of the article is just stupid.

 

As I stated in another thread, I think Carroll is actually in so much control that he might not always get told the truth. That is, the players know he would be quick to kick them off to protect the team, so if he asks a direct question and they lie, he doesn't know the truth. And if he doesn't have the resources to check the story out, he takes his player's word.

 

"Hey Dwayne, are you paying 50% of the rent for the apartment you share with Matt?"

"Uh, I don't know about the % coach, but I pay $650 a month, just like Matt does. I think his dad negotiated the rent down for us."

"Are you sure?"

"That's what he told me. Do you want to see my cancelled check for $650 last month?"

"Yes, I do, Dwayne - if you don't mind." (He shows it to Carroll the next day.)

"OK Dwayne, keep your nose clean."

"Thanks, coach."

 

and that's it...

And the Bush thing was likely kept very far from him, IMHO. There will be no memo or phone call that suggests his knowledge of it...

Edited September 18, 2006 by Coffeeman

[Coffeeman]

It appears I'm having a convo with myself here, but that's okay - its important to me. Here's an answer to my Q above, re: when agents can talk to athletes. Apparently its okay, even in high school - sickening.

 

From foxsports.com...

--------

 

UPSHAW LOOKS TO BUSH-WHACK AGENTS: When word broke late this week that Saints RB Reggie Bush had allegedly taken more than $100,000 from prospective agents last year, NFLPA chief Gene Upshaw decided he'd had enough. Now, Upshaw, with the help of USC head coach Pete Carroll, is on a mission to implement drastic and wide-ranging changes to the landscape of the agent game.

 

Upshaw told FOXSports.com that he intends to put together a resolution that will call for agents to no longer be allowed to have any contact with a college player until he is eligible for the NFL draft, a drastic change from the current practice.

 

"We'll put a resolution together where if anybody does that we'll suspend them," Upshaw said.

 

Currently, agents are allowed to talk to prospective clients whenever they choose, even in high school, as long as no money is exchanged and no contract signed. In Upshaw's latest proposal, there can be no contact at all.

 

In fact, Upshaw went one step further on Friday when he called Carroll to discuss assembling a group of college coaches to help Upshaw in curbing the problem.

 

"It was Pete who first alerted me to how big the problem is," said the NFLPA exec. "He told me something needs to stop because his school is like agent central. They are always around. I was always ready to listen but now, in light of the recent news, it's time to move on this."

 

While Upshaw understands this may not sit well with agents, he believes the problem has completely grown out of control.

 

"There was one kid who recently declared his intention of which school he is going to attend and during his announcement, he had an agent with him," said Upshaw. "They're recruiting kids straight out of high school. That's ridiculous."

 

It's unclear if Carroll has yet to return Upshaw's call, but the union chief figures they'll speak this week. Carroll and other coaches are going to be called upon to help Upshaw on how they can effectively crack down on the problem.

[LiL10(s)ArEaJoKe]

lol Coffeeman......wasnt try to put a burr under your saddle. I have yahoo as my homepage and when I opened ie there it was. I know this injustice happens all over all the time. Hell I have seen it in action, a QB from the HS i went to signed his LOI at the start of his senior year, within a few days he was driving a brand new 1989 Toyota Supra Turbo. If I remember correctly that was a very expensive car when it was new, no way his parents could have bought it for him....................but the ironic thing is he went to a PAC 10 school......hell just right down the road from your beloved SC. I personally dont think theres much the NCAA can do about it, I was just curious to the comments of the people here on the board. I tend to agree with the sportsline guy.........