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Matt Jones or Roy Williams?


ROYALWITCHEESE
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My friend and I have been discussing who will be the better player:

 

They have similar abilities, but my argument is for Jones. I think his superior size and speed, combined with a better attitude and offense/QB situation bode well for him. Not to mention he's still learning the position.

 

What do you guys think?

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I'm not ready to say he's better than Roy Williams just yet. However, alot of people were questioning the WRs in Jax due to the loss of Jimmy Smith. I think they will perform better as Lefty had a tendency to lock in on Smith. Now, defenses are faced with the task of which WR to pay attention to. And as the Jags showed in their first 2 games, that is no easy task. Even Reggie Williams is stepping up to the plate, and once Mercedes Lewis learns the system, look out. The D is already dominating and the future for the offense looks bright. Stay tuned. You'll be hearing the name Jaguars alot in the near future. And for that matter Matt Jones.

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Honestly it is close. Through two games Jones has 2 more catches and like 35 more yards. They both have played 2 real good D's, Jones has had both at home though. The reason I like Williams more is he is THE guy in Detroit. The O should get better as the matchups lessen and the Martz factor kicks in. Meanwhile in Jax Jones has Wilford, Williams, and Taylor to compete with. So I would take Williams and his upside, but Jones is solid also.

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No doubt in my mind that Matt Jones is better. He's a game breaker--he has the ability to make the big play with speed and size. Roy Williams' only claim to fame is that he is flexible enough to fit his foot in his mouth.

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Based on sheer volume of opportunity, Matt Jones has seen 21 opportunities on offense (only 7 WRs have seen more). Roy Williams, only 15. Sure, it's been just two games. But those numbers speak for themselves.

 

 

But don't you have to factor in the defense there? Kitna has faced the Seahawks and Bears, forcing him to throw fewer passes as he ran for his life:

 

Lefty threw 39 passes in week one, with 8 going to Matt Jones (20.5%) DEF: DAL

Kitna threw 37 passes in week one, with 7 going to Roy Williams (18.9%) DEF:SEA

 

Lefty threw 44 passes in week two, with 12 going to Matt Jones (27.2%) DEF:PIT

Kitna threw 31 passes in week two with 8 going to Roy Williams (25.8%) DEF:CHI

 

So while Matt jones IS being targeted more, I think the percentage of passes going to each is comparable, taking into consideration the qualities of the defenses.

 

Also it may be what you do with the pass your targeted for:

 

Jones is 11/20 (55%), and Williams is 9/15 (60%)

 

I still maintain that IF the Detroit offense stops sputtering, Williams will put up better numbers.

 

EDIT: I didn't count Matt Jones' rush, hich accounts for the descrepency between Dennis' numbers and mine...;-)

Edited by cre8tiff
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Matt Jones, from what I've seen is not a playmaker. He can jump, but I have yet to see him break tackles and accumulate some YAC. I watched every catch he made agains PIT and I was totally unimpressed. He caught the ball and stepped out of bounds or laid down as he was tackled. I think he might be a big psuuly. One play in particular, he caught the ball near the sideline, only had one defender remotely close to him and he didn't even try to advance the ball up field. It was a catch for first down and he was satisfied with stepping out of bounds. The true studs always try to turn something out of nothing. I think Jones will have a career of mediocrity. I haven't seen much of Williams, but what I have seen is intensity. Something that Matt Jones lacks.

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But don't you have to factor in the defense there? Kitna has faced the Seahawks and Bears, forcing him to throw fewer passes as he ran for his life:

 

Lefty threw 39 passes in week one, with 8 going to Matt Jones (20.5%) DEF: DAL

Kitna threw 37 passes in week one, with 7 going to Roy Williams (18.9%) DEF:SEA

 

Lefty threw 44 passes in week two, with 12 going to Matt Jones (27.2%) DEF:PIT

Kitna threw 31 passes in week two with 8 going to Roy Williams (25.8%) DEF:CHI

 

So while Matt jones IS being targeted more, I think the percentage of passes going to each is comparable, taking into consideration the qualities of the defenses.

 

Also it may be what you do with the pass your targeted for:

 

Jones is 11/20 (55%), and Williams is 9/15 (60%)

 

I still maintain that IF the Detroit offense stops sputtering, Williams will put up better numbers.

 

A worthy retort...

 

While I agree that you must account for the relative awsomness of the oppossing defenses, I reject your general assertion that Kitna faced tougher opponents in Weeks 1 and 2. Dallas/Pittsburg is pretty comperable to Seattle/Chicago.

 

Your reception ratio analysis is spot on: both are above 50%, which is always a plus. But the edge does go to Williams.

 

However, yards per catch go to Jones (13.09), though Williams isn't far behind (11.88).

 

In addition, based on the fantasy produciton allowed to WRs in Weeks 1 and 2, the Jags have the easiest remaining schedule against the pass going forward. Detroit has the 11th easiest. Again, both look good, but the advantage goes to Jones.

 

And while neither has yet to score a TD, I do think it is worth noting that Jones has seen 3 pass targets in the red zone, relative to Williams' 0.

 

Plus, there is the intangible of Jones simply being on the better team.

 

I don't think it's a slam dunk, but any means, but a side by side comparison - IMO - suggests that Jones is probably the better fantasy option. But even if he isn't, it's close enough that Jones will almost certainly provide the better fantasy value, based on ADP.

Edited by yo mama
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A worthy retort...

 

While I agree that you must account for the relative awsomness of the oppossing defenses, I reject your general assertion that Kitna faced tougher opponents in Weeks 1 and 2. Dallas/Pittsburg is pretty comperable to Seattle/Chicago.

 

Your reception ratio analysis is spot on: both are above 50%, which is always a plus. But the edge does go to Williams.

 

However, yards per catch go to Jones (13.09), though Williams isn't far behind (11.88).

 

In addition, based on the fantasy produciton allowed to WRs in Weeks 1 and 2, the Jags have the easiest remaining schedule against the pass going forward. Detroit has the 11th easiest. Again, both look good, but the advantage goes to Jones.

 

And while neither has yet to score a TD, I do think it is worth noting that Jones has seen 3 pass targets in the red zone, relative to Williams' 0.

 

Plus, there is the intangible of Jones simply being on the better team.

 

I don't think it's a slam dunk, but any means, but a side by side comparison - IMO - suggests that Jones is probably the better fantasy option. But even if he isn't, it's close enough that Jones will almost certainly provide the better fantasy value, based on ADP.

 

Weren't you on the Wilford bandwagon in the pre-season and I said I rather have Jones, now you are advocating Jones...LOL

 

In all seriousness it is close but I would take Roy because he is the guy in Det. If that O, and it is an if, but if they get it together against the easier schedule I see no way Roy doesn't out do Jones who will share with Williams and Wilford and Taylor. In Detroit Roy is THE guy period.

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Weren't you on the Wilford bandwagon in the pre-season and I said I rather have Jones, now you are advocating Jones...LOL

 

Yes, but not in comparison to Jones: in comparison to Reggie Williams. I still love Wilford as a player, but he simply isn't getting enough looks to be useful for fantasy (which chaps my ass, because I drafted him late in 2/3s of my leagues).

 

And I'm not really advocating Jones; merely performing an impromtu side by side comparsion of two players someone else asked about.

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Yes, but not in comparison to Jones: in comparison to Reggie Williams. I still love Wilford as a player, but he simply isn't getting enough looks to be useful for fantasy (which chaps my ass, because I drafted him late in 2/3s of my leagues).

 

And I'm not really advocating Jones; merely performing an impromtu side by side comparsion of two players someone else asked about.

 

I didn't mean it in a negative way (if you even took it like that). Lord knows I have liked 70000 players who didn't pan out, although through 2 games only so anything can still happen with Wilford.

 

As for Jones I know you are just comparing the two but in this instance you are advocating Jones. Not saying that you are advocating Jones as a stud or anything. Good debate. Some would take Jones and some like me would take Roy. I know that if I was offered Jones for Roy I'd say no, and I love Jones if you remember from the pre-season, but I guarantee you if I offered Roy for Jones I'd have a deal.

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As for Jones I know you are just comparing the two but in this instance you are advocating Jones. Not saying that you are advocating Jones as a stud or anything. Good debate. Some would take Jones and some like me would take Roy. I know that if I was offered Jones for Roy I'd say no, and I love Jones if you remember from the pre-season, but I guarantee you if I offered Roy for Jones I'd have a deal.

 

I hear what you are saying, and agree that few (if any) would trade Roy for Matt Jones right now. But that may have a lot to do with the season's current proximity to our draft days. Most people don't want to admit that they were wrong about a draft day decision, unless it's grabbing them by the throat and urinating directly on their team's box score. Roy Williams does NOT fall into that category, and looks to improve as his schedule (and hopefully QB play) get better. But talk to me again in 7 weeks. If Matt Jones has 15 more receptions, 200 more yards, and 3 extra TDs, will you be signing the same tune? Maybe, maybe not. But I'll gurantee you'd be more open to the idea than you (or anyone) would be today.

 

And I'm not so sure I agree with your prior assertion that Roy Williams is the only (or at least main) receiving option for the Lions. Mike Furrey actually has more receptions and Kevin Jones has seen just as many pass targets. As with all things, that may change. But the bottom line here is that at this very early stage in the season the Jags are throwing a little more than the Lions, and Matt Jones is seeing a greater percentage of his team's passing opportunites than Roy Williams is of his. Well just have to wait and see if that develops into a trend, because the sample size is just too small to place much faith in. It is, however, worth keeping tabs on.

Edited by yo mama
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I hear what you are saying, and agree that few (if any) would trade Roy for Matt Jones right now. But that may have a lot to do with the season's current proximity to our draft days. Most people don't want to admit that they were wrong about a draft day decision, unless it's grabbing them by the throat and urinating directly on their team's box score. Roy Williams does NOT fall into that category, and looks to improve as his schedule (and hopefully QB play) get better. But talk to me again in 7 weeks. If Matt Jones has 15 more receptions, 200 more yards, and 3 extra TDs, will you be signing the same tune? Maybe, maybe not. But I'll gurantee you'd be more open to the idea than you (or anyone) would be today.

 

And I'm not so sure I agree with your prior assertion that Roy Williams is the only (or at least main) receiving option for the Lions. Mike Furrey actually has more receptions and Kevin Jones has seen just as many pass targets. As with all things, that may change. But the bottom line here is that at this very early stage in the season the Jags are throwing a little more than the Lions, and Matt Jones is seeing a greater percentage of his team's passing opportunites than Roy Williams is of his. Well just have to wait and see if that develops into a trend, because the sample size is just too small to place much faith in. It is, however, worth keeping tabs on.

 

Good stuff. And Let me just say this while I like Jones best in Jax Williams and Wilford will be involved as well. If Mike Furrey is anywhere near Roy at seasons end I'd be shocked. We shall see how it goes though. That's why they play the games.

 

Good back and forth here.

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...heck...

 

If you're going to compare Matt Jones and Roy Williams ... at some point you may also need to compare Matt Jones to Reggie Williams.

 

 

 

:D Huddlers are very desirious for a white receiver to perform well. :D

 

I like Matt Jones, but still am not convinced he is overhyped. Muck is alluding to the fact that a lot of people right now aren't sure if Matt Jones is the best fantasy receiver on his own team.

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Muck is alluding to the fact that a lot of people right now aren't sure if Matt Jones is the best fantasy receiver on his own team.

 

 

:D

 

Are you SURE that's what I'm saying?

 

:D

 

Thank you Captain Obvious!

Edited by muck
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Are you SURE that's what I'm saying?

 

 

Maybe not? Some were claiming earlier today that Matt Jones is by far and away the #1 WR option at Jaxsonville so my reiteration didn't seem out of line, but then again I'm not really sure what you are trying to say or how in the world my comment got you worked up. :D

Edited by bushwacked
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Maybe not? Some were claiming earlier today that Matt Jones is by far and away the #1 WR option at Jaxsonville so my reiteration didn't seem out of line, but then again I'm not really sure what you are trying to say or how in the world my comment got you worked up. :D

 

 

No...not worked up...just amused at the need you felt to explain what seemed to me like a pretty straightforward comment by my part.

 

LOL @ us!

 

...heh heh heh...

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