ReturnToSender Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Do you guys have owners like this in your league? He offers me Chad Pennington, Charges D, Rod Smith & Keyshawn Johnson for Chad Johnson, Edge, Leftwitch, and Jones-Drew(he has Taylor). He proceeds to try and make me feel he's doing me a favor, because the total points of my guys is 130 and his offer is 200. Wow, that's a great deal for me, no. How do you make a deal with those "total point" guys who think because C Jo has started slow he's less value than Keyshawn Johnson? I am 0-3, and this is one of 3 guys in the league with enough depth to actually trade for C Jo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Tell him he's a jackass. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Every league has a guy like that. Don't even respond because that offer is an insult to your intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satelliteoflovegm Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 (edited) Not responding is bullcrap, he might think it is a fair deal. Even if it the worst deal ever and I have gotten a few, I normally say either "No thanks" or when all else fails try the truth, "The offer sucks, thanks anyway" Edited September 29, 2006 by satelliteoflovegm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cre8tiff Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Do you guys have owners like this in your league? He offers me Chad Pennington, Charges D, Rod Smith & Keyshawn Johnson for Chad Johnson, Edge, Leftwitch, and Jones-Drew(he has Taylor). He proceeds to try and make me feel he's doing me a favor, because the total points of my guys is 130 and his offer is 200. Wow, that's a great deal for me, no. How do you make a deal with those "total point" guys who think because C Jo has started slow he's less value than Keyshawn Johnson? I am 0-3, and this is one of 3 guys in the league with enough depth to actually trade for C Jo. Counter with you four worst players. Talk about how it's a breakout season for each, and they are poised to score big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Some owners start with a low ball offer in the hopes of simply opening trade negotiations from there (the art of making a deal is just not appreciated by a lot of FF owners). Of course, maybe he just wants to try to screw you with a lopsided offer. Who knows? My point is, you don't have to "deal" with him at all. Just reject the offer or counter with something that makes sense. Why is this a big deal to you, for you to have to look at an offer that you don't like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylive5 Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Not responding is bullcrap, he might think it is a fair deal. Even if it the worst deal ever and I have gotten a few, I normally say either "No thanks" or when all else fails try the truth, "The offer sucks, thanks anyway" Some owners start with a low ball offer in the hopes of simply opening trade negotiations from there (the art of making a deal is just not appreciated by a lot of FF owners). Of course, maybe he just wants to try to screw you with a lopsided offer. Who knows? My point is, you don't have to "deal" with him at all. Just reject the offer or counter with something that makes sense. Why is this a big deal to you, for you to have to look at an offer that you don't like? Agree with these two. Just answer with no thanks or a counter. The big thing to remember is that a lot of owners out there trade from the POV that your players are not all that good (studs or not) and that theirs are all studs. Most of the time I just view it as a lowball approach to open trade talks... if I am not interested (or insulted) I just say "nah... maybe next time". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I don't understand. What do you mean, "How do you deal with him?" If you want to make the trade, make it. If you don't, then simply refuse it. One thing I have learned about FF over the years is that the idea is to score the most points possible. In order to do that, you need FF players who score more points than similar players at their respective positions who score less. It's a pretty simple concept, really. I have also learned that reputation is worth 0 points in a FF league. Some owners get so wrapped up in a player's "name" value, that they entirely miss the fact that the "name" player is actually scoring less FF points than many other players at that position. I have also watched those owners regularly get their asses handed to them, and then not be able to figure out why they finished 5-8 with such a "great" team. That you are 0-3 and the other owner apparently has a team doing much better than your team says a lot. If you are going to get hung up on "name" players, chances are, you won't make any significant moves, and it's quite possible that you'll be one of those guys finishing out of the playoffs, scratching your head as to why you lost with such a "great" team. Change out some of the pieces of the trade that you don't like, and make a counter offer. R Smith doesn't have a ton of value right now, and while he is still Plummer's go-to guy, Walker is clearly Plummer's big-play guy. Change out Smith with someone else. Ask for a better RB in exchange for Jones-Drew, since he as the Taylor owner places a lot more value on him than you do. If you are satisfied with your D, throw the D out of the deal & substitute it with a player you like. Look at the overall situation of the players he wants - Chad Johnson draws a lot of double team coverage and Palmer has matured enough as a QB where he is throwing to other WRs and taking advantage of the attention on CJ. Edge is a top 10 RB and is tough to trade, even though he is on a bad, bad team. Leftwich is stuck on a team with a dynamic D who won't have to throw much for a good portion of the year. Jones-Drew is locked into a RBBC. Keep Edge, and work around the other guys with a good counter offer. Pennington looks desireable right now because he iss also on a bad team with little help at RB - that speels a lot of throwing, especially since Cochery has stepped up. Keyshawn is a good player to have - he's opposite Smith who is drawing automatic double teams and he's damn talented to be single covered, and he also has a mature QB who will exploit that coverage situation. Both those guys could easily outproduce a lot of "name" players this year. Why be so offended - try to be objective and tweak the deal to your favor. Or stand pat, hope you "name" players step up finally, and then hope that you'll play .800 FF the rest of the year, because otherwise you stand a good chance of being on the outside looking in at the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturnToSender Posted September 29, 2006 Author Share Posted September 29, 2006 I agree, he wants a counter offer..here is his e-mail to me after making the offer: You have 24 hours to decide/counter. Unless your counter beats this deal by way of points, don't bother. I will not deal my starters for reserves. AF1 Out. I also do agree, I am not one who is so stuck on big named players I won't deal them, but the deal he offered is just plain bad. I don't want to insult the guy like he deserves, because I have to try and get a deal done, and he has depth. O well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Very often when I initiate trade talks my first offer is one which I believe the other owner will turn down. It is more of an opening salvo in what I hope to be fruitful negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Hey, when did you join Fusion League? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satelliteoflovegm Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Sounds like a ransom note...put small unmarked starters in a suitcase, leave them at will call, no Titans, and don't try anything funny. We are watching... The crap counter for spite is a bad idea, I think you see. After all you might need him in the future. I try and take a breath before I fire off what I want to say and then send back the polite email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Very often when I initiate trade talks my first offer is one which I believe the other owner will turn down. It is more of an opening salvo in what I hope to be fruitful negotiations. I do too but quite often, they're just rejected with no counter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I do too but quite often, they're just rejected with no counter I typically am one of those owners who will reject with no counter if I feel I'm being lowballed badly. I do the same thing when I buy a car or a house. If you want to deal, act seriously. If you're fishing, find another fish. I don't have patience for the games, and I'm not big on being treated with hope by the other guy as a sucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I typically am one of those owners who will reject with no counter if I feel I'm being lowballed badly. I do the same thing when I buy a car or a house. If you want to deal, act seriously. If you're fishing, find another fish. I don't have patience for the games, and I'm not big on being treated with hope by the other guy as a sucker. Actually the reason I use this approach is because I have found that however fair my first offer might be the first offer is NEVER accepted. There is always negotiations. With that in mind I want room to negoitiate to the trade I actually want. While I make an offer I believe is likely to be turned down ... it is never in the arena of a totally ridiculous offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I typically am one of those owners who will reject with no counter if I feel I'm being lowballed badly. I do the same thing when I buy a car or a house. If you want to deal, act seriously. If you're fishing, find another fish. I don't have patience for the games, and I'm not big on being treated with hope by the other guy as a sucker. I don't lowball (well mabe sometimes) but my latest rejected trade was Ronnie Brown for Anquan Boldin, dealing from strength for strength. I was shocked that at least no counter was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 wheel and deal baby. that's what it's all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffraff Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I just say: " No thanks, Fury." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I just say: " No thanks, Fury." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Punch him in the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I typically am one of those owners who will reject with no counter if I feel I'm being lowballed badly. I do the same thing when I buy a car or a house. If you want to deal, act seriously. If you're fishing, find another fish. I don't have patience for the games, and I'm not big on being treated with hope by the other guy as a sucker. 2 weeks ago another owner offered me... Leinart, Crumpler, TJ Housh and Betts for Coles, Bryant, and Andre Johnson. This week i was offered Randy Moss for Reggie Wayne. i try not to completely insult the other owner. I politely decline but don't counter right away. If I remember or get around to it, I make sure to check out their roster to see if I can exploit their situation as these are more than likely teams that have no wins yet and would be willing to sell low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Actually the reason I use this approach is because I have found that however fair my first offer might be the first offer is NEVER accepted. There is always negotiations. With that in mind I want room to negoitiate to the trade I actually want. While I make an offer I believe is likely to be turned down ... it is never in the arena of a totally ridiculous offer. I don't mind there being room for negotiation. I look at the offer in the first post, and I see some interesting tidbits. I do like the Pennington for Leftwich exchange, and I wouldn't mind trading off Jones-Drew for a more dependable RB if I'm the poster. I don't like the R Smith addition - that's a throw in with 3rd WR value at best this year, I'm not crazy about collecting Ds, and unless there is a great offer I wouldn't include Edge. But there are some interesting items in there. I do think CJ is vastly over-rated right now based upon what CIN & Palmer are doing, so he becomes a negotiable piece. There's room to talk, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Some owners start with a low ball offer in the hopes of simply opening trade negotiations from there (the art of making a deal is just not appreciated by a lot of FF owners). Of course, maybe he just wants to try to screw you with a lopsided offer. Who knows? My point is, you don't have to "deal" with him at all. Just reject the offer or counter with something that makes sense. Why is this a big deal to you, for you to have to look at an offer that you don't like? Exactly what I was thinking. Just reject the offer, or counter it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysrocking Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Exactly what I was thinking. Just reject the offer, or counter it. So I think in one of my leagues I am so dominate it amazes me. My starters and backups are very strong. I don't think anyone wants to bother even making a trade offer to me. Although I will look at anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Not responding is bullcrap, he might think it is a fair deal. Even if it the worst deal ever and I have gotten a few, I normally say either "No thanks" or when all else fails try the truth, "The offer sucks, thanks anyway" If the deal is really bad then I usually just tell them I'm not interested. Most times though when I don't like an offer I give an explaination why & then tell them what I would be looking for in a possible trade. What I don't like is when somebody sends me a lowball offer expecting me to do all the dirty work or when somebody makes an offer that technically looks like an even trade, but has absolutely no regard to what my actual team needs are and then they can't understand why I either won't make the trade or ask for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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