msaint Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 This has been talked about before, but I thought Simmons nailed the Brady situation, especially when reminding that Drew Brees -- Drew Brees, he of the career 86 passer rating and career 41-43 record -- was rewarded with essentially the same $. Honestly, I think that even a consummate pro like Brady won't be able to ignore taking considerably less money than he deserved and then being shafted when it comes to getting legit skill players around him, and this could linger all year long. Has the makings of an eventually divisive situation, IMO. Let's recap: While negotiating his last contract in 2005, Tom Brady left money on the table because the Pats promised to use that extra money for his supporting cast. He ended up agreeing to a six-year extension for $60 million ($14.5 million guaranteed), while Peyton Manning agreed to a $99 million extension ($34.5 million guaranted) just a few months later. Throw in the three Super Bowl rings and Brady's 6-1 lifetime record against Manning and that just seems odd. You have to admit. Also, Drew Brees signed for the same numbers as Brady ($60 million, six years) the following spring. These are the facts. Now we're three games into the season, the Patriots are still $13 million under the cap, the money can't be rolled over to next season, they let three core guys go (McGinest, Vinatieri and Branch) last winter and didn't sign a single marquee guy, and Brady spent last Sunday trying to get a passing game going with Headlights Caldwell and Troy Brown as his deep threats, which meant Denver just moved everyone up, swallowed their running game and sent the kitchen sink on every down. So, Brady got the crap kicked out of him, they ended up getting shut down at home on national TV, and if that wasn't bad enough, one of the Broncos puked on Brady's left tackle. So here's my question ... If you're Tom Brady, you're supposed to have GOOD body language while this is happening? Really? That's our verdict here? You wouldn't have been bummed out? If I were Brady, near the end of that debacle Sunday night, I would have called an out pattern toward the Patriots sideline and aimed a pass right at Belichick's head. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waterboy Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 This has been an endless topic of debate on Boston/Providence sports radio the past two weeks. The whole world knows the Patriots are blowing it. Though I am not sure how much is Belichick versus Kraft and the front office. Patriots need to man up and realize they made a mistake, send their pick from Seattle to Oakland for Jerry Porter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I'm sorry, I don't buy it. When Brady signed, he was top 3 for money and NOBODY believed he was the 'best', despite his SB rings. He's still top 5, but now 'everyone' talks about he's the best and he took the hometown discount. You can't have it both ways, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I'm sorry, I don't buy it. When Brady signed, he was top 3 for money and NOBODY believed he was the 'best', despite his SB rings. He's still top 5, but now 'everyone' talks about he's the best and he took the hometown discount. You can't have it both ways, guys. have i told you lately that i love you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaint Posted September 30, 2006 Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 I'm sorry, I don't buy it. When Brady signed, he was top 3 for money and NOBODY believed he was the 'best', despite his SB rings. He's still top 5, but now 'everyone' talks about he's the best and he took the hometown discount. You can't have it both ways, guys. 1. i always thought he deserved whatever money he got and always believed that, though maybe not as skilled as a peyton, he was indeed proven the overall best at his position in the entire league when you factor in all the intangibles that make a successful nfl qb. 2. i think the deal he took (i.e. less money) was for the benefit of the team, even though he deserved millions more as compared to other qb's who have accomplished far less team-wise (peyton) and individually (brees), and now he's getting shafted with the talent around him, IMO. if they had even one legit WR threat this team could be scary, with the 1-2 RB punch they now have and a solid defense (stout front, vet linebackers, although their 2ndary, as usual, could use some help). as it is, teams (e.g. denver last week, as simmons wrorte) creep up, plug the run, take away the short slants that have so effectively been his bread & butter the last few years, and force him to attempt the deep balls to such accomplished deep threats as troy brown and doug gabriel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 The Pats FO painted themselves into a corner with Branch. They should have signed him before it became a hold out situation, but they let it fester, simply because they have turned into a franchise that has become cheap. I think they felt since the Seymour hold out, they had to teach their players a lesson. The problem is that the lesson they taught players like Brady is that they demand a team first philosophy from the players, but it isn't a two way street. Brady DID leave money on the table, while Manning did not.... but Indy kept Manning's core players in Marvin and Wayne, and even tagged Edge for a year, while Brady's favorite target, and a player that according to the NE players themselves say embodied the whole "BB ideal player model" was basically dismissed. Now, they want Brady to not only deal with that fact, but do they nothing to help him. I'm not saying Givens and Branch are Harrison and Wayne, but how loudly would Manning be screaming if the Colts let those two go? I don't think there is another top 20 QB in the NFL that would have handled this as well as Brady has managed to, but it seems he's taking the heat. I think Brady feels betrayed, and I think he has a right to feel that way. If there is a QB in the league that could deal with the mess the pats have created, it's Brady, but even he has limitations. I'm not sure that this doesn't create an impassable schism between Brady and the team, and BB and his FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Denver just moved everyone up, swallowed their running game and sent the kitchen sink on every down. To be fair... Denver has shut down every passing attack they've seen. Granted, one of them was Damon "The Passing Machine" Huard... but we did hold Bulger to 50% completion and 217 yards... But I definitely think they screwed the pooch letting Branch and Givens go and staying under the cap. Why wouldn't you spend money on a good team? Answer: Bob Kraft is a dick. Something I've been saying for years, and the main reason I'm not a Patriots fan despite being from New England. The whole world knows the Patriots are blowing it. Though I am not sure how much is Belichick versus Kraft and the front office. Yeah, Belichick is unquestionably a good coach. Does he have much say in contracts? That doesn't seem like his decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I like what the Patriots do. they create these players so why should they overpay to keep them.it is smart Biz in every way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heydave76 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I thought I saw on this message board recently that Brady cost more against the salary cap then Manning because of the way their contracts were structured. I think the NE situation is just a normal cycle with good teams. They did win 3 superbowls. Your team will start to get picked apart in free agency. A lot of superbowl teams tend to over pay for players later in their career because of what they've done for them in the past and before you know it they have a terrible team. The patriots are still good, although not as good as they were. I think since they haven't overpayed now it will only be a short time before they are top caliber again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 So, Brady got the crap kicked out of him, they ended up getting shut down at home on national TV, and if that wasn't bad enough, one of the Broncos puked on Brady's left tackle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 So when Tom Brady wins, he's a leader? And when the Patriots lose/make questionable personnel decisions, he's a sulker? Make up your minds mediots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I think the NE situation is just a normal cycle with good teams. They did win 3 superbowls. Your team will start to get picked apart in free agency. A lot of superbowl teams tend to over pay for players later in their career because of what they've done for them in the past and before you know it they have a terrible team. The patriots are still good, although not as good as they were. I think since they haven't overpayed now it will only be a short time before they are top caliber again. It's not that they haven't overpaid. They have 12 million dollars going to waste, and a glaring hole at one position. Spend the money, close the hole, stop sucking. Brady knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major-tom Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 It's not that they haven't overpaid. They have 12 million dollars going to waste, and a glaring hole at one position. Spend the money, close the hole, stop sucking. Brady knows it. I think Kraft is satisfied with his 3 rings and has decided to save his money. I wonder how much say the GM has in this "sinking ship". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarina Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 There may be 12 million "just sitting there" right now, but they have a couple key guys (yes, even more key guys) coming up for contracts in the coming year. What I've read is that they're planning to use some of this available cap money to redo roster bonuses in order to free up money from next year's cap, blah blah blah. You know how all that shell game stuff with the money works. Basically, I think it's 'there' but it isn't. They had $6 million earmarked for Branch, who decided that he'd rather have more money and be the #2 in Seattle. Could they have handled it differently? Of course they could have, but is this some grand crashing end to the Pats success? I sincerely doubt it. He played with Givens and Branch for YEARS so naturally he had good timing and chemistry with those guys, who are clearly NOT the very best in the biz at their position. The chemistry made both Brady and the WRs better. These new guys have had preseason and 3 in season games. Not including how Jackson can't ever seem to practice with his gimpy hammy. It's just way too soon to tell. If Pats fans want something to worry about, take a look at the secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueCrue Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 But I was always told that Brady is so much better because he makes everyone else around him better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinatieri Is God Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Very early in the season.....the lady is correct that these guys are still working on their timing together. The Pats will be fine this year. They're winning the East and hopefully by the time the playoffs roll around, Brady will be comfortable with all his guys. They won the Superbowl with Givens, Patten, and Troy Brown and they were 5-5 midway through the year. You guys worry about your teams and let us worry about the Pats. I'm much more concerned about the unhealthy secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msaint Posted October 1, 2006 Author Share Posted October 1, 2006 Very early in the season.....the lady is correct that these guys are still working on their timing together. The Pats will be fine this year. They're winning the East and hopefully by the time the playoffs roll around, Brady will be comfortable with all his guys. They won the Superbowl with Givens, Patten, and Troy Brown and they were 5-5 midway through the year. You guys worry about your teams and let us worry about the Pats. I'm much more concerned about the unhealthy secondary. i will say that gabriel was at least getting open against denver but brady missed him a couple times, uncharacteristically. but if gabriel can emerge as a deep threat, who knows...big if, but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balliet12 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I'm not sure whether to laugh in Bill Simmons' face or thank him for firing up the team. Go Pats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charty Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 (edited) There may be 12 million "just sitting there" right now, but they have a couple key guys (yes, even more key guys) coming up for contracts in the coming year. What I've read is that they're planning to use some of this available cap money to redo roster bonuses in order to free up money from next year's cap, blah blah blah. You know how all that shell game stuff with the money works. Basically, I think it's 'there' but it isn't. What are the rules for applying contract bonus money earmarked for future years to this years cap (i.e. Seymour)? Is there a deadline or a cutoff date that the 2006 books get closed? I know there is $12M there, and getting a Porter (mentioned above) isn't a smart option, so they better start applying some money to that open cap amount. And moving in cap money to this year doesn't mean they will overextend themselves to pay someone next year. On a positive note, Brady is getting more comfortable with Gabriel, and if Jackson can stay on the field, they will be OK. Edited October 2, 2006 by charty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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