Grits and Shins Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 (:08) (Shotgun) C.Pennington pass short middle to L.Washington to NYJ 40 for 8 yards [D.Freeney]. Lateral to B.Smith to NYJ 37 for -3 yards. Lateral to L.Coles to IND 44 for 19 yards. Lateral to C.Pennington to IND 37 for 7 yards. Lateral to J.McCareins to IND 35 for 2 yards. FUMBLES, recovered by NYJ-B.Smith at IND 33. B.Smith to IND 37 for -4 yards. FUMBLES, recovered by NYJ-L.Coles at IND 40. L.Coles to IND 27 for 13 yards. Lateral to N.Mangold to IND 27 for no gain. FUMBLES, RECOVERED by So as a Coles owner I don't see any of these yards credited to him in MFL scoring. Are these rushing yards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCMB Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I traded Coles for Michael Clayton - so NOPE! Seriously though, it is an 'effed up situation. Plays like this have happened in the past, and based on precedent, if Leon Washington would have just lateraled to B. Smith, and B. Smith took it all the way for the TD - wouldn't the breakdown have been: Leon Washington - reception, 8 yards B. Smith - TD with 60 yards rushing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulOttCarruth Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I believe players are only given credit for yards they gain from scrimmage. I remember this issue came up on the play in 2003 when Randy Moss lateraled to Moe Williams over his head for a TD at the end of the half. Williams was given credit for a TD, but not for yards. Here is the play: 3-24-MIN41 (:12) (Shotgun) D. Culpepper pass to R. Moss to DEN 15 for 44 yards. Lateral to M. Williams for 15 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Play Challenged by Review Assistant and Upheld. Play-by-Play Link In the box score (Link) he was not given credit for the 15 yards he gained after the lateral. I'm sure there are other examples you can research, but this is the one that came to mind because I started Williams that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I believe players are only given credit for yards they gain from scrimmage. I remember this issue came up on the play in 2003 when Randy Moss lateraled to Moe Williams over his head for a TD at the end of the half. Williams was given credit for a TD, but not for yards. Here is the play: 3-24-MIN41 (:12) (Shotgun) D. Culpepper pass to R. Moss to DEN 15 for 44 yards. Lateral to M. Williams for 15 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Play Challenged by Review Assistant and Upheld. Play-by-Play Link In the box score (Link) he was not given credit for the 15 yards he gained after the lateral. I'm sure there are other examples you can research, but this is the one that came to mind because I started Williams that day. Actually POC, if you were to go thru and add up his receptions (4) and the yardage he got with those 4 receptions, that only adds up to 35 yds total. However you'll see he has 50 yds total under his receiving yds. The official ruling is this started as a pass play from CPep to Moss, the lateral to Moe was simply a continuation of said pass play, so Moes yds after the lateral were considered receiving yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 So as a Coles owner I don't see any of these yards credited to him in MFL scoring. Are these rushing yards? No, they are not rushing yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 (edited) No, they are not rushing yards. Well, not according to YOU but to the NFL they are - based on the above example which I remember very clearly. Edited October 2, 2006 by Pope Flick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Even if he were to get credit for the first part (19 yards), he would not get the second part (13 yards) because that was a fumble recovery, and not part of the original pass play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCMB Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Even if he were to get credit for the first part (19 yards), he would not get the second part (13 yards) because that was a fumble recovery, and not part of the original pass play. Good point! But whether considered rushing or receiving yards - I think the Moss/Moe and similar plays set a precedent for the first part of the play. (btw - I have no dog in this "fight", if there is one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulzale Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 (edited) Doesn't matter as this was an illegal play (Jets-Colts). Someone fumbled the ball and therefore it cannot be advanced by anyone other than the fumbler and another Jets player picked it up advanced then lateralled, should have been end of play. Edited October 2, 2006 by paulzale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Well, not according to YOU but to the NFL they are - based on the above example which I remember very clearly. No, you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 Doesn't matter as this was an illegal play (Jets-Colts). Someone fumbled the ball and therefore it cannot be advanced by anyone other than the fumbler and another Jets player picked it up advanced then lateralled, should have been end of play. Doesn't that rule only apply in regards to advancing the ball into the endzone within the last 2 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCMB Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Doesn't matter as this was an illegal play (Jets-Colts). Someone fumbled the ball and therefore it cannot be advanced by anyone other than the fumbler and another Jets player picked it up advanced then lateralled, should have been end of play. I'm not sure if this is true or not - but it still doesn't address the part of the play pre-fumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Doesn't that rule only apply in regards to advancing the ball into the endzone within the last 2 minutes. No, I think the rule is that no offensive player can advance a ball fumbled by another offensive player in the last 2 minutes. So, in all likelyhood, that last minute desperation play by the Jets would have been overruled by the replay ref had it been successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanCT Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Somebody needs to pull the rules off a Fantasy Rugby website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 No, I think the rule is that no offensive player can advance a ball fumbled by another offensive player in the last 2 minutes. So, in all likelyhood, that last minute desperation play by the Jets would have been overruled by the replay ref had it been successful. Edit: Actually, the only exception to that rule that I can think of would be if an offensive player recovered a fumble and, instead of advancing it, lateralled to another offensive player. I think, as long as they didn't advance it past the point where they picked up the ball that would be OK. But in any case, at least 2 Jets players picked up fumbled balls and advanced them without lateraling. So in yesterday's case it was moot. That would be an interesting test of the rules, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Edit: Actually, the only exception to that rule that I can think of would be if an offensive player recovered a fumble and, instead of advancing it, lateralled to another offensive player. I think, as long as they didn't advance it past the point where they picked up the ball that would be OK. But in any case, at least 2 Jets players picked up fumbled balls and advanced them without lateraling. So in yesterday's case it was moot. That would be an interesting test of the rules, however. http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/fumble Having trouble copying and pasting, but it says it is for any play in the last 2 minutes of a half... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/fumble Having trouble copying and pasting, but it says it is for any play in the last 2 minutes of a half... Ok. So from what I read in your link, in the last 2 minutes once the ball is fumbled, the offensive team cannot advance it no matter what. If the ball is fumbled and an offensive player recovers it, it's a dead ball. So the Jets had no hope of scoring on that play once Pennigton touched the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Pat!!! Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Sounds like it. I think it all happened too fast for the refs to do anything about. If the Jets had scored, I think they would have reviewed it and saw that there was a fumble, and ruled on it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Blitz, it appears you did get the first part of Coles yardage, but not the part after the fumble. If you go to the play by play, you can count Coles receptions and as the stats state, he had a total of 6. But if you go thru and add up the yardage for each of those plays, it totals 62 yds. But Coles is being credited by the NFL and MFL with a total of 81 yds. A difference of 19 yds. The amount you see he gained after the first lateral to him. As the guys mentioned before me, the 2nd time he touched the ball was after a Fumble, so none of those yds were gained legally and were not credited to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Even if the Jets had scored, the play would not have counted. Only the fumbling player can advance a fumble inside of two minutes. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share Posted October 3, 2006 Even if the Jets had scored, the play would not have counted. Only the fumbling player can advance a fumble inside of two minutes. . . Isn't that in a goal line situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heydave76 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Isn't that in a goal line situation? No. It is any fumble inside of two minutes or on 4th down can only be recovered and advanced by the player that fumbled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziachild007 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 No. It is any fumble inside of two minutes or on 4th down can only be recovered and advanced by the player that fumbled. I am pretty sure that is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosGatosEnFuegos Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 If this had been a rushing play to Washington, then he lateralled to Coles who picked up, say, 15 yards, would those yards be credited as rushing yards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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