H8tank Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well, guess this debate is settled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonkis Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Charlie Frye is a better QB than Big Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonkis Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 That's the type of analysis you'd get from only looking at the numbers though. Â Â That's the name of the game. Numbers. That's what we pay DMD for. No one is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoMan Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Charlie Frye is a better QB than Big Ben. Â Â See and vote in this thread http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=174641 to establish why any argument occurred in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 REALLY wish I had time to respond to this one, but I don't have time today. Gotta get home... Â But I'll say this: The way Ben played in the first 3 playoff games is VERY indicative of how he had thrown the ball a majority of the time down the stretch. That's the type of analysis you'd get from only looking at the numbers though. He was dominant in those 3 playoff games, and he picked up the slack for a struggling running game. Â Â The analysis by the numbers is pretty relevant when we are discussing fantasy football though and the numbers do not support Roethlisberger as being anything more than an average quarterback. The running game struggled in the playoffs because defenses committed to stopping it and allowed Roethlisberger to have an easier time passing which he took advantage of (though CIN was always his best games anyway). Â You can rely on whatever qualitative measures you want, but the measureables don't suggest that Ben is anything more than an average fantasy QB. I had him ranked a bit lower than anyone else this year and so far I am okay with that. But I do not think anyone else had him ranked as a starting fantasy QB because he's just not worthy of it. Â The Steelers won against the Broncos because Plummer turned the ball over 4 times. The Steelers still could not run so Ben threw the ball in a game that was over in the second quarter thanks to Plummer. They squeaked out a win over the Colts because Vandy missed a field goal and the Colts did not take them seriously enough. They beat Cincy because they took out Palmer at the first of the game. Ben didn't have anything to do with the Steelers winning the SB with only 9 of 23 passing for 123 yards and two interceptions. Â I guess you can look at whatever you want to, but nothing I have seen says Ben is more than average in fantasy terms but he is a good QB for that system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonkis Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 They beat Cincy because they took out Palmer at the first of the game. Â Â Â Incoming!!!!!!!! Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Stealer fans- one word for Roth- overrated. Â Bier, H8, DMD- all are on the money, he is middle of the road fantasy-wise, as well as from a talent standpoint. This has been discussed over and over, IMO there are about 15 QB's I would rather have behind center than Roth........ Don't really want to list em right now. Â As for watching him as a QB, and throwing the football?? he is an inconsistent, inaccurate passer that has an average arm and a suspect deep ball. Not sure how much IC you all drink in Steeltown, but he is a nice young QB that needs to really work on his skills as an NFL QB. Â Although, he is the best DB/QB in the league, and his tackling skills are solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsOfKnee Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Stealer fans- one word for Roth- overrated. Â Bier, H8, DMD- all are on the money, he is middle of the road fantasy-wise, as well as from a talent standpoint. This has been discussed over and over, IMO there are about 15 QB's I would rather have behind center than Roth........ Don't really want to list em right now. Â As for watching him as a QB, and throwing the football?? he is an inconsistent, inaccurate passer that has an average arm and a suspect deep ball. Not sure how much IC you all drink in Steeltown, but he is a nice young QB that needs to really work on his skills as an NFL QB. Â Although, he is the best DB/QB in the league, and his tackling skills are solid. Â Â His face planting abilities are solid as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 blah... blah... blah.... 'despite missing four games' Â that last part is not what you are looking for out of a fantasy QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 (edited) Aaron Brooks was a better Fantasy QB in 2004 compared to 2005 Ben Edited October 5, 2006 by CD6405 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 The analysis by the numbers is pretty relevant when we are discussing fantasy football though and the numbers do not support Roethlisberger as being anything more than an average quarterback. The running game struggled in the playoffs because defenses committed to stopping it and allowed Roethlisberger to have an easier time passing which he took advantage of (though CIN was always his best games anyway). Â You can rely on whatever qualitative measures you want, but the measureables don't suggest that Ben is anything more than an average fantasy QB. I had him ranked a bit lower than anyone else this year and so far I am okay with that. But I do not think anyone else had him ranked as a starting fantasy QB because he's just not worthy of it. Â The Steelers won against the Broncos because Plummer turned the ball over 4 times. The Steelers still could not run so Ben threw the ball in a game that was over in the second quarter thanks to Plummer. They squeaked out a win over the Colts because Vandy missed a field goal and the Colts did not take them seriously enough. They beat Cincy because they took out Palmer at the first of the game. Ben didn't have anything to do with the Steelers winning the SB with only 9 of 23 passing for 123 yards and two interceptions. Â I guess you can look at whatever you want to, but nothing I have seen says Ben is more than average in fantasy terms but he is a good QB for that system. Â Â The numbers place Ben Roethlisberger as a top 10 fantasy QB from a points per game standpoint in 2005. That's what the numbers say, and you can twist that however you see fit. If that's average to you, great. Â I'm not even going to touch the comment about why you feel they beat Cincinnati, and LOL, they won against the Broncos because Ben lit up their secondary in the first half and forced Plummer into playing from behind. They squeaked past the Colts because of a missed field goal? Yep, and let's just forget about the fact that if Polamalu's INT had been ruled correctly it never would've come to that. It was Ben's passing that gave them an early lead in that game. He obviously sucked in the Super Bowl. Â It's getting to be a pretty pointless debate at this point though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Stealer fans- one word for Roth- overrated. Â Bier, H8, DMD- all are on the money, he is middle of the road fantasy-wise, as well as from a talent standpoint. This has been discussed over and over, IMO there are about 15 QB's I would rather have behind center than Roth........ Don't really want to list em right now. Â As for watching him as a QB, and throwing the football?? he is an inconsistent, inaccurate passer that has an average arm and a suspect deep ball. Not sure how much IC you all drink in Steeltown, but he is a nice young QB that needs to really work on his skills as an NFL QB. Â Although, he is the best DB/QB in the league, and his tackling skills are solid. Â Â Inconsistent and inaccurate with an average arm and suspect deep ball? I take it you haven't watched him much over the past 2 years. Â I can imagine someone thinking that only if they watched him for the first time in the Super Bowl last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Kurt Warner is accurate and throws a good deep ball, he won 2 mvps and a superbowl yet we say he sucks. Why will Ben beat him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rellen13 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Nope not from me, I noticed what you speak of and drafted him. Now I'm in a position to have to start him this week with Vick's bye week. And i don't know whether to drop him and pick someone else up or just take my lumps. Â Â You have Roethlisberger and Vick on one fantasy team? Â What, does your league penalize for passing yards? Â Â Â Â Â I could'nt resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Inconsistent and inaccurate with an average arm and suspect deep ball? I take it you haven't watched him much over the past 2 years. Â I can imagine someone thinking that only if they watched him for the first time in the Super Bowl last year. Â Â Â yep- Super Bowl was the first time seeing the big guy throw the pigskin around. All I remember is a 6'5 dork with a glove on indoors who was slinging quacking ducks all over the field with the arm strength of my little sister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Thanks. Â You the same guy who used to post that Steelers poetry stuff at FBGs? Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 OK, then let's hear YOUR explanation of how a guy who isn't a good FF QB can have a top 10 PPG among QBs, just a hair below "studs" like Hasselbeck and Eli.  "Ben isn't a good fantasy QB" has been beaten into peoples' heads so often that they overlook the numbers that say otherwise.     I have him at number 15 in fantasy points per game by QB's.  What kind of rules you using to figure this out?  he is behind..  Palmer P Manning Leftwich Brady Brees Collins Delhomme Vick Favre E Manning Bledsoe McNabb Hasslebeck Bulger Warner   and is in a group with McNair,Frerrotte,Plummer,Green,Brunell where they are all neck and neck.  He is most definately has proven to be a mediocre fantasy QB so far(including last year). now that may change and I am sure if he last long enough he will have a good fantasy season or 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Listen, even I think this debate is getting old around here. We all know where everyone stands on the issue. Not even I can say that I think he is a good FANTASY QB, considering the offense that he plays in. However, Steelers4life was pointing out his points per game numbers in his league. Â The debate on how good Roethlisberger is as a real, NFL QB is as tired and played out as any subject on this message board, and I'm as much to blame as anyone. He has done some great things early in his career. Some people feel he is over-rated, some feel he is a quality QB. As someone who is a football addict, has seen every snap he has taken in the NFL, and admittedly is a homer fan, I think the guy has good mobility, leadership, and a strong arm, and up until the Super Bowl last year, was a great decision maker at the position. So far this year, he has been the opposite of all those things. Â Fact is, the guy is only in his 3rd year, and he has a lot of time to answer all of our questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H8tank Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Not even I can say that I think he is a good FANTASY QB, Â Thank you, the voice of reason. Now bend over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraftykraft Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Jeez, I find homer manlove for Rothlisberger a little troubling. Â No, Ben Rothlisberger is NOT a good fantasy QB. He's a good reserve fantasy QB, but thats all. Last year he finished behind the thoroughly mediocre Kerry Collins in points per game in our league. Â Like your team. Like your players. Think that your players might belong in the Hall of Fame when in fact they are kind of borderline. Â But don't come here and argue stuff that is demonstrably false--especially for 2 pages of worthless text. Â Some of us actually come to these forums expecting some genuine insight into the games of football and fantasy football. I was hoping to get an update on Rothlisberger's condition and whether he was looking better in practice--not a bunch of yapping about how good a fantasy starter he is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Seahawks 37, Ugly Tuna, Menudo, and this guy were seperated at birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraftykraft Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Seahawks 37, Ugly Tuna, Menudo, and this guy were seperated at birth. Â Â And Western civilization can thank God that this is the case.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjpro11 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Â WAR BIG BEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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