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Can a player be fined for a major facemask?


Tega
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I didn't see the play that some of you talked about - LJ getting a major facemask (and the officials not catching it). When there is a major dirty hit, the NFL can fine a player after reviewing film. Can they do that for a major facemask?

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Figured I'd go take a look at the Gamebook:

1-10-KC 13 (2:31) 11-D.Huard pass short left to 27-L.Johnson to ARZ 9 for 78 yards (21-A.Rolle). KC-27-L.Johnson was injured during the play. P17

PENALTY on ARZ-21-A.Rolle, Face Mask (15 Yards), 5 yards, enforced at ARZ 9.

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There was a flag, but no intent to injure IMO. It looked like Rolle was just looking to grab anything to try and stop LJ from getting to the endzone. Rolle came from a LONG way to stop the play, and in a close game every play matters.

 

Not a dirty play, just unfortunate the way it unfolded. They should fine Sammie Parker for blocking like a puss. Otherwise Rolle never even gets to LJ.

Edited by Chief Dick
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There was a flag, but no intent to injure IMO. It looked like Rolle was just looking to grab anything to try and stop LJ from getting to the endzone. Rolle came from a LONG way to stop the play, and in a close game every play matters.

 

Not a dirty play, just unfortunate the way it unfolded. They should fine Sammie Parker for blocking like a puss. Otherwise Rolle never even gets to LJ.

 

Rolle also was reaching around Parker and FLYLING. He was pretty much mid air when he grabbed the facemask and he was real distraught after the play. I doubt there will be any fine, but it certainly looked bad enough. He whole read was almost 180 degrees around. :D

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There was a flag, but no intent to injure IMO. It looked like Rolle was just looking to grab anything to try and stop LJ from getting to the endzone. Rolle came from a LONG way to stop the play, and in a close game every play matters.

 

Not a dirty play, just unfortunate the way it unfolded. They should fine Sammie Parker for blocking like a puss. Otherwise Rolle never even gets to LJ.

 

 

Exactly...+1

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There was a flag, but no intent to injure IMO. It looked like Rolle was just looking to grab anything to try and stop LJ from getting to the endzone. Rolle came from a LONG way to stop the play, and in a close game every play matters.

 

Not a dirty play, just unfortunate the way it unfolded. They should fine Sammie Parker for blocking like a puss. Otherwise Rolle never even gets to LJ.

 

Agreed. Chief Dick and that word (agreed) don't often collide in the same sentence.

 

Rolle was just trying to stop the score. It didn't look like there was any intent or malice for that matter.

 

But, I'm sure the normal mal-contents will appear and claim that LJ's cleats were stuck in the sod! :D

 

 

Sorry, memory cuts both ways. :D

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Not a dirty play, just unfortunate the way it unfolded. They should fine Sammie Parker for blocking like a puss. Otherwise Rolle never even gets to LJ.

 

 

:D

 

Not a dirty play? The penalty was egregious & Rolle intentionally wrecklessly endangered LJ by that play. He knew exactly what he was doing by pulling down Johnson by the facemask. Not only was it as dirty as play gets, but it warrants a suspension. Just because a guy's facemask is the only way available to stop him from scoring a TD doesn't make it okay to tackle the guy by it, twisting himly completely around against his path of momentum.

 

That thinking amazes me - any play is okay, as long as it is on the field of play & stops a TD from being scored? The ends justify any means? That's bulloh poopy.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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I don't know what play you all watched, but Rolle grabbed whatever he could get. I thought it was a very dirty play and I think he should be fined, there was no excuse for that. So you're saying if a RB breaks free a guy chases him down and grabs on from behind, reaches around and grabs the facemassk, twists his head back to drive him to the ground.......is not a dirty play? :D I don't know what you all are talking about :D Rolle had no business grabbing up there, PERIOD! :lol:

 

That said, LJ could have avoided the whole thing by cutting back to the inside and dashing toward the middle of the field or he could have kept on sprinting down the line and not waited for the blocker and he most likely would have scored.

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Well, I base my judgment regarding league precedence regarding two plays by DBs previously.

 

The first is a hit by DEN S John Lynch on IND TE Dallas Clark, where Clark was either in the process of securing a thrown ball or had secured a thrown ball and had turned to run with it - it took numerous slo-mo replay (4 1/2 minutes worth) review by refs to determine whether Clark caught the ball and therefore was a runner when the contact occured, and therefore whether the hit by Lynch (which it shall be noted occurred in a fraction of a second on the field) was legal or illegal, and therefore whether a ) Clark had fumbled the ball or whether it was on incomplete pass, and b ) whether Lynch's hit was a penalty for a hit against a defenseless reciever or whether it was legal contact with a ball carrier running with the football. The initial call on the field was no penalty. The NFL, after numerous reviews during the following week, decided that the play was dirty and fined Lynch $75,000, which Lynch lost an appeal to.

 

The second is the string of horse collars tackles by DAL S Roy Williams. The horse collar tackle was previously considered a legal tackle until Williams used the momentum gained by the horse collar to swing his legs into the reciever's legs, which caused injury on more than one occassion. The league looked at the dangerous play and has now outlawed it and fines DBs who use this method to tackle because of its inherent danger to players.

 

That the league fines (and has threatened to suspend) players engaged in the previous 2 contacts described above because of the nature of the play being so dangerous, it is only in line that the league fine and/or suspend in a similar manner any player who engages in an egregrious face masking penalty such as the one performed by Rolle on Johnson in that it was intentional - Rolle obviously knew that he was grabbing & tackling Johnson by the face mask - and that it was so dangerous in the situation in which the dirty play was applied.

 

By your assertion that I am nuts, you also condone the horse collar tackle performed by Roy Williams okay since it results in a potential TD saving tackle, and you also should allow the Lynch hit with no fine (or penalty) since the play happened so quickly from the touching of the ball by Clark to the hit by Lynch that Lynch couldn't have possibly known - hell, even the refs didn't know - that he was engaing it what was later determined to be a dirty hit and subsequently fined. The NFL says otherwise in both those cases, and it ought to do the same on this play to Rolle.

 

Anyone who has ever played football knows damn well that was Rolle did was foul, dangerous, & reprehensible. If you are a football player on the field, you know very well what injury you can inflict on a player by tackling him by the face mask in the manner that Rolle did to Johnson. It's one thing to get tangled up in a face mask while tackling from behind or having a hand slip off the pads or jersey and onto the face mask, but it's an entirely different transgression to intentionally grab the face mask and pull a player down simply because that was the only thing available to grab the player by - which Rolle clearly knowingly did. I'm surprised Rolle wasn't thrown out of the game. While football is natually a violent game, there is no place for the kind of reckless mayhem that Rolle performed, no matter whether he was trying to stop a TD from being scored or not. The NFL has a history of legislating against that kind of play.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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Anyone who has ever played football knows damn well that was Rolle did was foul, dangerous, & reprehensible. If you are a football player on the field, you know very well what injury you can inflict on a player by tackling him by the face mask in the manner that Rolle did to Johnson. It's one thing to get tangled up in a face mask while tackling from behind or having a hand slip off the pads or jersey and onto the face mask, but it's an entirely different transgression to intentionally grab the face mask and pull a player down simply because that was the only thing available to grab the player by - which Rolle clearly knowingly did. I'm surprised Rolle wasn't thrown out of the game. While football is natually a violent game, there is no place for the kind of reckless mayhem that Rolle performed, no matter whether he was trying to stop a TD from being scored or not. The NFL has a history of legislating against that kind of play.

 

 

This is all you need to read right here :D Excellent post BB :lol: All you other people need to wake up :D

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My memory is a bit hazy, but I seem to remember several years back, Shannon Sharpe getting grabbed by the facemask on two or three consecutive plays. Maybe by a Chief? I've never seen anything like it since as the Defensive player came off the ball, grabbed his facemask and attempted to twist his head off his shoulders for the duration of the play. Happened several plays in a row. I believe the NFL fined for that.

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My memory is a bit hazy, but I seem to remember several years back, Shannon Sharpe getting grabbed by the facemask on two or three consecutive plays. Maybe by a Chief? I've never seen anything like it since as the Defensive player came off the ball, grabbed his facemask and attempted to twist his head off his shoulders for the duration of the play. Happened several plays in a row. I believe the NFL fined for that.

 

 

Look no further than my Avitar for the culprit. Shannon Sharpe was/is a punk who was trash talking Thomas, the game was already decided and Sharpe was saying some things he obviously shouldn't have to Thomas, Thomas wasn't going to just let him get away with it....so for a series of plays (3 I think) Derrick lined up over him grabbed his face mask drug him to the ground with it and made him eat turf. He had to have someone help him remove the turf from his mask after every one of those plays :D Now I'm not going to sit here and say Thomas wasn't wrong, he was fined as he should have been, the team was basically banned from MNF, although the league never said that....but we had at least 2 MNF games every year up to that event and none for a while after the incident. Sharpe got what he asked for......a reaction out of Thomas....and Thomas gave him a piece :D

 

Now if we could just get someone to do something similar on the set that would be nice.

 

EDIT ** Thomas was not a dirty player and apologized to the team and Organization afterwards, he never did anything remotely close to this in his career.

Edited by Hat Trick
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Look no further than my Avitar for the culprit. Shannon Sharpe was/is a punk who was trash talking Thomas, the game was already decided and Sharpe was saying some things he obviously shouldn't have to Thomas, Thomas wasn't going to just let him get away with it....so for a series of plays (3 I think) Derrick lined up over him grabbed his face mask drug him to the ground with it and made him eat turf. He had to have someone help him remove the turf from his mask after every one of those plays :D Now I'm not going to sit here and say Thomas wasn't wrong, he was fined as he should have been, the team was basically banned from MNF, although the league never said that....but we had at least 2 MNF games every year up to that event and none for a while after the incident. Sharpe got what he asked for......a reaction out of Thomas....and Thomas gave him a piece :D

 

Now if we could just get someone to do something similar on the set that would be nice.

 

EDIT ** Thomas was not a dirty player and apologized to the team and Organization afterwards, he never did anything remotely close to this in his career.

 

 

:lol:

 

Nice selective memory.

 

DEN beat KC 30-7 in the MNF game in which the penalties happened. Sharpe had been using Thomas all game long & let him know all about it, in typical Sharpe diarrhea-mouth diatribes, and Thomas just went completely ballistic. I distinctly remembering Peterson & Schottenheimer making profuse apologies to anyone & everyone who would listen because Thomas had gone so far off his rocker in that game. Sharpe got completely in Thomas' head & DEN crushed KC in KC that game. And mind you, Thomas was a supreme trash-talker also.

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I don't know what play you all watched, but Rolle grabbed whatever he could get. I thought it was a very dirty play and I think he should be fined, there was no excuse for that. So you're saying if a RB breaks free a guy chases him down and grabs on from behind, reaches around and grabs the facemassk, twists his head back to drive him to the ground.......is not a dirty play? :D I don't know what you all are talking about :D Rolle had no business grabbing up there, PERIOD! :lol:

 

That said, LJ could have avoided the whole thing by cutting back to the inside and dashing toward the middle of the field or he could have kept on sprinting down the line and not waited for the blocker and he most likely would have scored.

 

yeah, it looked pretty bad to me...

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