Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 The comparison baffles me because aside from the fact that both won the Super Bowl, there's almost nothing else even similar between their respective seasons. People want to knock Ben and Dilfer is the only guy they can come up with? If people want to call Roethlisberger a game-manager, that's fine. That shows nothing more than the fact that the person thinking that hasn't watched much Steelers football over the past two years, but that's understandable. Just come up with a better "game-manager" type to compare him to. Troy Aikman is a far more accurate comparison, but Roethlisberger's numbers after two season are far, FAR better than Aikman's were after his first two seasons.... and Ben's per game numbers in 2005 were better than Aikman had in almost any season of his career. Heck, in Aikman's entire career, he never averaged more than 8.0 yards per attempt and he only accounted for as many TDs as Roethlisberger did in 2005 (20 in 12 games) ONCE in his entire career (1992). Regular season: Ben (2005, 12 games) vs Trent (2000, 9 games) Passes per game Ben - 22.3 Trent - 25.0 Completion % Ben - 62.7 Trent - 59.1 Yards per attempt Ben - 8.9 Trent - 6.7 Total TDs per game Ben - 1.67 Trent - 1.33 Interceptions per game Ben - .75 Trent - 1.22 Yards passing per game Ben - 199 Trent - 167 Passer rating Ben - 98.6 Trent - 76.6 And to take it a step further, both played 4 games in the playoffs. Ben performed great in the playoffs until the Super Bowl while Dilfer rode his defense the entire way. Ben was 58-93 (62.4), 803 yards (8.6 YPA), with 9 TDs (7 passing, 2 rushing) and 3 INTs. Dilfer was 35-73 (47.9), 590 yards (8.0 YPA), with 3 TDs (3 passing, 0 rushing) and 1 INT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 i think comparing them both to a pile of dog poo would be better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I think that it is the closest compairison that folk can come up with. He's certainly not Favre, Elway, Brady, Warner or Hass - heck... he'd need to be 3x the QB to be Brad Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 I think that it is the closest compairison that folk can come up with. He's certainly not Favre, Elway, Brady, Warner or Hass - heck... he'd need to be 3x the QB to be Brad Johnson. And that's my point. The comparison isn't remotely close to Dilfer. Aikman? Much closer, but from a numbers standpoint, Ben's already had a season as good as every year of Aikman's career but one. As for the other stuff, well, Ben's in his 3rd year in the NFL. When it's all said and done, we can see how he compares to guys like that, but why in the world did you mention Hasselbeck in there? He's never won a thing, he wasn't even a starting QB until he was 26 years old, and didn't start having any success until the last 4-5 years. The Brad Johnson comment made me chuckle a little bit. By the way.. you should go back and look at Elway's post-season numbers from the years he won the Super Bowl. Ben's 2005 postseason was FAR more impressive than either of them. It was the Terrell Davis show by that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 And that's my point. The comparison isn't remotely close to Dilfer. Aikman? Much closer, but from a numbers standpoint, Ben's already had a season as good as every year of Aikman's career but one. As for the other stuff, well, Ben's in his 3rd year in the NFL. When it's all said and done, we can see how he compares to guys like that, but why in the world did you mention Hasselbeck in there? He's never won a thing, he wasn't even a starting QB until he was 26 years old, and didn't start having any success until the last 4-5 years. The Brad Johnson comment made me chuckle a little bit. By the way.. you should go back and look at Elway's post-season numbers from the years he won the Super Bowl. Ben's 2005 postseason was FAR more impressive than either of them. It was the Terrell Davis show by that point. Ben=Aikman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Ben=Aikman If you want to take a look at Aikman's career stats and tell me which year aside from 1992 he had that was much better than Ben's 12 game season last year, be my guest. Aikman rode a great running game and a great offensive line, along with a good defense, to a few Super Bowls, but he was never a QB who put up big numbers. Like Ben did last year, Aikman tended to pass more in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Man, only took one good game to get back onto that horse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 (edited) Man, only took one good game to get back onto that horse... And I'm even able to laugh at that Edited October 17, 2006 by Hat Trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Man, only took one good game to get back onto that horse... This really has nothing to do with how he played on Sunday. On Sunday, he looked like he did the past 2 years. He had 2 good years as a 22-23 year old, and he had a few rough games to start this season... lots of possible reasons for it. He'll be fine. The only people expecting that kind of play to continue are the ones who wanted it to, but that's not what I was even talking about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Ben=Aikman it's pretty good, actually. aikman is the only guy i can think of who was more overrated than ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 it's pretty good, actually. aikman is the only guy i can think of who was more overrated than ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 it's pretty good, actually. aikman is the only guy i can think of who was more overrated than ben. I don't consider either of them overrated, really. I DO consider them both very accurate and efficient QBs who made a lot of plays. However, neither of them played for a team that depended only on them to win games. A lot of QBs could've led the Dallas teams in the early 90's to Super Bowls, but Aikman's the only one who did it. Ben's got a long career left to determine how he's eventually viewed. Aikman's a far more accurate comparison - at least at this point - than Dilfer. Especially by the numbers that people love to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If you want to take a look at Aikman's career stats and tell me which year aside from 1992 he had that was much better than Ben's 12 game season last year, be my guest. Aikman rode a great running game and a great offensive line, along with a good defense, to a few Super Bowls, but he was never a QB who put up big numbers. Like Ben did last year, Aikman tended to pass more in the playoffs. comparing one season is one thing.Get back to me when Ben throws for 33,000 yds,completes 2900 passes and completes 62% of his passes for 12 years. Look I'm not saying Aikman was one of the best QB's ever,but comparing a 3rd year QB to a hall of famer is a little much. OBTW,let me know when Ben has 90 wins in a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I DO consider them both very accurate and efficient QBs who made a lot of plays. Big Ben has looked like a decent game manager at times and very bad at times. "Very accurate" is a generous homer description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 comparing one season is one thing.Get back to me when Ben throws for 33,000 yds,completes 2900 passes and completes 62% of his passes for 12 years. Look I'm not saying Aikman was one of the best QB's ever,but comparing a 3rd year QB to a hall of famer is a little much. OBTW,let me know when Ben has 90 wins in a decade. I agree with you 100%, and I'm certainly not saying Ben's a Hall of Famer or a lock to ever be one. Ben's been in the league for 2 years (a lot of people forget that, too), but regarding his STYLE of play thus far in his career and how efficient he's been, Aikman's a good comparison. All I said is that from a numbers standpoint, Ben's 2005 season was as good as or better than all but one of Aikman's, and both benefited from a running game, offensive line, and defense among the best in the NFL. He was so much better than Dilfer was in 2000 and did so much more for the Steelers that the comparison to Dilfer is pointless. The stats I posted originally drive that point home in a big way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Big Ben has looked like a decent game manager at times and very bad at times. "Very accurate" is a generous homer description. Well, a 63.8% completion percentage and 8.9 yards per attempt over 710 attempts entering this season (including all playoff games) says he's been pretty damn accurate, especially for a 23 year old QB. He's got the label of game-manager no matter how innacurate it is. A comparison to Dilfer? Uh, no. But my opinion isn't based on being a homer, it's based on having seen him play for the past 2+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Well, a 63.8% completion percentage and 8.9 yards per attempt over 710 attempts entering this season (including all playoff games) says he's been pretty damn accurate, especially for a 23 year old QB. Dave Krieg completed 58.5 percent of his passes for 38,147 passing yards and the last thing I'd describe him as is accurate. Like Ben, he was inconsistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junebugz Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 OBTW,let me know when Ben has 90 wins in a decade. FYI ... just some useless stats ... since 1992 when Cowher started coaching the Steelers have only had 3 seasons with a record of under .500 ... the average percentage of games won with Cowher coaching is 62% Doing the math Ben would need to win about 52% of the rest of the games from now until the end of the 2013 season. So barring either a football injury, or Ben not staying off the motorcycle, or more likely Cowher not being in Pittsburgh through 2013, it would seem as though it would be within reach. He already has 23 wins since 2004. 28 if you count post-season. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Dave Krieg completed 58.5 percent of his passes for 38,147 passing yards and the last thing I'd describe him as is accurate. Like Ben, he was inconsistent. First, big difference between 63.7 and 58.5 over the course of a season. In 2005, Tom Brady was a 63% passer while Kyle Boller was a 58% passer. Second, Ben hasn't been inconsistent with his accuracy until this season. Inconsistent QBs don't end up with a completion percentage that high, lead the league in yards per attempt, or finish 3rd in passer rating like Ben did. We'll see if his 2006 inconsistency continues or if he's rounding into shape after a tough offseason. And again, I didn't start this thread to debate how good he is or isn't. I just want the stupid comparisons to Dilfer to stop because they don't hold any water. Like I said, people will call him a game manager whether it's true or not, but the comparisons to Dilfer are ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Second, Ben hasn't been inconsistent with his accuracy until this season. The AFC championship game against the Patriots or the Super Bowl last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 First, big difference between 63.7 and 58.5 over the course of a season. In 2005, Tom Brady was a 63% passer while Kyle Boller was a 58% passer. Second, Ben hasn't been inconsistent with his accuracy until this season. Inconsistent QBs don't end up with a completion percentage that high, lead the league in yards per attempt, or finish 3rd in passer rating like Ben did. We'll see if his 2006 inconsistency continues or if he's rounding into shape after a tough offseason. And again, I didn't start this thread to debate how good he is or isn't. I just want the stupid comparisons to Dilfer to stop because they don't hold any water. Like I said, people will call him a game manager whether it's true or not, but the comparisons to Dilfer are ridiculous. you're right,the comparisons are ridiculous. Super Bowl Stats-- Dilfer-153 yds-1td-0 ints Roth-123yds-0tds-2ints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 The AFC championship game against the Patriots or the Super Bowl last year? You want to pick out 2 individual games in 2 years and call him inconsistent? He's had other subpar games like any QB, and especially any young QB. He wasn't any good in the Super Bowl last year and he was completely worn out as a rookie against the Patriots in the '04 playoffs, but there isn't a QB in the NFL who I couldn't find more than 2 poor games to point out over the past 2 seasons. Overall, I certainly wouldn't describe his play over the past 2 years as inconsistent at all. If you disregard the rest of what I said there, that's fine. His completion %, YPA, and passer rating speak for themselves, and he was a helluva lot more than Dilfer ever was in 2000, especially in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junebugz Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 you're right,the comparisons are ridiculous. Super Bowl Stats-- Dilfer-153 yds-1td-0 ints Roth-123yds-0tds-2ints att com yd td int Aikman 27 19 207 0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Troy Aikman is a far more accurate comparison Great stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 you're right,the comparisons are ridiculous. Super Bowl Stats-- Dilfer-153 yds-1td-0 ints Roth-123yds-0tds-2ints Now take a look at the rest of the stats I listed in the first post of the thread. No one disputes how bad Ben was in the Super Bowl. But take a look at his regular season stats and playoff stats taken as a whole compared to Dilfer and there's no comparison at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.