Big Ben (2005) vs Trent Dilfer (2000)

[DMD]

Comparing a quarterback like Roethlisberger to a Hall of Fame quarterback that was extremely successful in what the offense needed and was noted for his accuracy and decision making seems at least a little premature.

 

Realize too when Aikman was drafted, the Cowboys went 1-15 with a horrible team that had no defense or offense. Big Trent went to a team that already had a great defense and that had been almost annual winners of their division.

 

Who knows, maybe he will end up as a good one but to equate him to a HOF QB seems to be jumping the gun a bit. The Steelers had nothing short of a magical season in 2005 and failure to see how magical it was only invites criticism.

[bushwacked]

Comparing a quarterback like Roethlisberger to a Hall of Fame quarterback that was extremely successful in what the offense needed and was noted for his accuracy and decision making seems at least a little premature.

 

Realize too when Aikman was drafted, the Cowboys went 1-15 with a horrible team that had no defense or offense. Big Trent went to a team that already had a great defense and that had been almost annual winners of their division.

 

Who knows, maybe he will end up as a good one but to equate him to a HOF QB seems to be jumping the gun a bit. The Steelers had nothing short of a magical season in 2005 and failure to see how magical it was only invites criticism.

 

 

You clearly are obsessed with hating Big Ben and the The only 6 time Super Bowl Winners and YOUR DADDY and you can't understand the facts.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

You clearly are obsessed with hating Big Ben and the The only 6 time Super Bowl Winners and YOUR DADDY and you can't understand the facts.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Comparing a quarterback like Roethlisberger to a Hall of Fame quarterback that was extremely successful in what the offense needed and was noted for his accuracy and decision making seems at least a little premature.

 

Realize too when Aikman was drafted, the Cowboys went 1-15 with a horrible team that had no defense or offense. Big Trent went to a team that already had a great defense and that had been almost annual winners of their division.

 

Who knows, maybe he will end up as a good one but to equate him to a HOF QB seems to be jumping the gun a bit. The Steelers had nothing short of a magical season in 2005 and failure to see how magical it was only invites criticism.

 

 

That's a fair response.

 

Re: comparing him to Aikman - No, Ben's not a HOFer and I haven't claimed he is. Not yet, at least. I compared their situations in that neither Ben nor Troy were asked to carry the team, but both performed very, very well in leading the team and operating within a system. Ben's performance in 2005, including the playoffs, was much more in line with the seasons Aikman had than the one Dilfer did. Ben's completion % the past two years (66.4, 62.7) are right in line with all but one of Aikman's best seasons, and his YPA is a full yard higher than Aikman's BEST season. His TD production is right in line, also. Aikman had a better INT rate and was very deserving of the accolades he got, but by the numbers and early results, Ben is on that TYPE of track as far as a comparison is concerned.

 

Re: the Steelers' magical Super Bowl run - We all know that it was a magical run, but heading into the playoffs, the Steelers were playing football as well as anyone in the league. That had to be just to make it. The game against the Bengals turned whenever Palmer got hurt, and it would've been quite a battle had that not happened. The Steelers had dominant performances against the Colts and Broncos, and the only reason it's not remember that way is because Polamalu's INT was ruled incorrectly... when bad calls are remembered from last year's playoffs, that one's forgotten. Lots of factors went into the Super Bowl win, including the debatable penalties, but no one remembers anything but the penalties. I never said I didn't appreciate the Super Bowl run as being exactly what it was.

Edited October 17, 2006 by Steelers4Life

[DMD]

That's a fair response.

 

Re: comparing him to Aikman - No, Ben's not a HOFer and I haven't claimed he is. Not yet, at least. I compared their situations in that neither Ben nor Troy were asked to carry the team, but both performed very, very well in leading the team and operating within a system. Ben's performance in 2005, including the playoffs, was much more in line with the seasons Aikman had than the one Dilfer did. Ben's completion % the past two years (66.4, 62.7) are right in line with all but one of Aikman's best seasons, and his YPA is a full yard higher than Aikman's BEST season. His TD production is right in line, also. Aikman had a better INT rate and was very deserving of the accolades he got, but by the numbers and early results, Ben is on that TYPE of track as far as a comparison is concerned.

 

Re: the Steelers' magical Super Bowl run - We all know that it was a magical run, but heading into the playoffs, the Steelers were playing football as well as anyone in the league. That had to be just to make it. The game against the Bengals turned whenever Palmer got hurt, and it would've been quite a battle had that not happened. The Steelers had dominant performances against the Colts and Broncos, and the only reason it's not remember that way is because Polamalu's INT was ruled incorrectly... when bad calls are remembered from last year's playoffs, that one's forgotten. Lots of factors went into the Super Bowl win, including the debatable penalties, but no one remembers anything but the penalties. I never said I didn't appreciate the Super Bowl run as being exactly what it was.

 

 

If I ever need to know a fact about Ben Roethlisberger, I am just going to call you from now on.

 

Why do I picture a Fathead wall poster above your computer?

[CD6405]

...I just don't think you should compare a career of a little over 2 years to that of HoF Troy Aikman who played for 11.

 

If you can do that, then no one can get mad when people compare Tom Brady to the likes of Dan Marino and Joe Montana...which everyone will not accept.

Edited October 17, 2006 by CD6405

[Azazello1313]

well you know, dilfer played a lot of years and passed for almost 20,000 yards, too, and nobody seems to mind comparing dilferburger...i mean rothlisberger...to him

[Menudo]

Comparing a quarterback like Roethlisberger to a Hall of Fame quarterback that was extremely successful in what the offense needed and was noted for his accuracy and decision making seems at least a little premature.

 

Realize too when Aikman was drafted, the Cowboys went 1-15 with a horrible team that had no defense or offense. Big Trent went to a team that already had a great defense and that had been almost annual winners of their division.

 

Who knows, maybe he will end up as a good one but to equate him to a HOF QB seems to be jumping the gun a bit. The Steelers had nothing short of a magical season in 2005 and failure to see how magical it was only invites criticism.

 

 

The Steelers were 6-10 in the year prior to Ben's arrival.

[McBoog]

If I ever need to know a fact about Ben Roethlisberger, I am just going to call you from now on.

 

Why do I picture a Fathead wall poster above your computer?

 

 

 

[Azazello1313]

The Steelers were 6-10 in the year prior to Ben's arrival.

 

 

yeah and the two years before that they were 10-5-1 and 13-3....behind KORDELL STEWART

[bushwacked]

yeah and the two years before that they were 10-5-1 and 13-3....behind KORDELL STEWART

 

 

 

And in Kordell's final season with Pittsburgh had an astounding 65.7 completion percentage, which is almost on par with Big Ben's incredible accuracy in his rookie year when he had a 66.4 completion percentage.

[Steelers4Life]

Oh well. If you want to turn this into a thread about how good Ben is, I'm out. Don't need to debate that, really.

 

I go by numbers and by what I've seen for over 2 years. He's so much more than what Dilfer was that there shouldn't be any comparison between the two, and I've shown the numbers that clearly back that up, but I guess people will do it anyways. The numbers support my claim that he's 2 years onto a track similar to what Aikman was in Dallas, but no one wants to compare his start to that of a HOF QB. That's understandable, but in order to compare him to anyone, Dilfer included, it requires comparing him to someone with a lot more experience than he has.

 

Regarding some previous posts...

 

I don't get mad when people compare Brady to some of the all-time greats. He's got a resume already that gets him into that conversation.

 

I never said Roethlisberger's completion percentage was incredible, but I did say that he's an accurate QB and hasn't shown any more inconsistency in that regard than just about any other QB. Inconsistent QBs don't end up leading the NFL in yards per attempt with a top 3 passer rating and a top 10 completion percentage. But I guess I shouldn't let facts get in the way of an argument.

 

Kordell had a 65.7% completion percentage, but his yards per attempt was nearly 2 full yards fewer than Roethlisberger's. What does that mean? Kordell's % was high because he rarely threw beyond 10-15 yards down the field. Roethlisberger's is high because he's a far better downfield passer than some people want to give him credit for.

 

And I don't have a Big Ben fathead, although my nephew will be getting one for his birthday!

[jjpro11]

 

WAR Big Ben!

[bushwacked]

Inconsistent QBs don't end up leading the NFL in yards per attempt with a top 3 passer rating and a top 10 completion percentage.

 

 

In 2004 Daunte Culpepper was #3 in yards per attempt (behind Roth and Griese), #2 in passer rating, and #2 in completion %. I hardly would describe him as consistent or accurate. The problem with what you are doing is trying to prove a point statistically with too small of a sample size. Plus, it sounds like you've watched enough football to know personal stats don't tell the whole story.

[Menudo]

In 2004 Daunte Culpepper was #3 in yards per attempt (behind Roth and Griese), #2 in passer rating, and #2 in completion %. I hardly would describe him as consistent or accurate. The problem with what you are doing is trying to prove a point statistically with too small of a sample size. Plus, it sounds like you've watched enough football to know personal stats don't tell the whole story.

 

 

Speaking of a small sample size, you are often vocal on your criticisms of Roethlisberger, yet, you have claimed repeatedly that you have only watched him play in 4 games...........

[bushwacked]

Speaking of a small sample size, you are often vocal on your criticisms of Roethlisberger, yet, you have claimed repeatedly that you have only watched him play in 4 games...........

 

 

 

There is no doubt that part of my jaded opinion on Roth is based on how absolutely horrendous he looked in the few games I've seen him play (2 which were championship games).

[Steelers4Life]

There is no doubt that part of my jaded opinion on Roth is based on how absolutely horrendous he looked in the few games I've seen him play (2 which were championship games).

 

 

He was brutally bad in the '04 playoffs, no doubt. He was also a worn out rookie. He was awful against the Jets the week before, too.

 

He was also terrible in the Super Bowl, but did you happen to catch him in the 3 playoff games leading up to it?

 

Regarding your previous posts, I agree that stats don't tell the whole story. Of course, it's stats that everyone point to in order justify the whole game-manager opinion. Well, those stats are the same ones that compare him favorably to Aikman and far better than Dilfer ever was. If people don't want to ackonwledge that, oh well... I just threw it out there.

 

In 2004, Culpepper was a tremendous QB by any measure.

 

However, my opinions are based only partly on stats... the other part is from watching him play a lot more than anyone who isn't a Steelers fan. Just like Aikman, he's a lot better than his numbers will show, but also like Aikman, he doesn't really have to put up huge numbers for his team to win.

[Rovers]

 

[Skippy]

Let me be clear in that I'm not really sensitive about it at all. People who HAVE watched him know what he's capable of, but everyone will have an opinion regardless. That's the nature of the game, but I made the original post simply to start a discussion and to get the point accross that Ben was and is far more than Dilfer ever was in Baltimore, circa 2000. The numbers solidly back that up.

 

I think the main problem is that this board is made up of people everywhere. Until this season, people have not seen much of Ben. And on top of that and to be very honest, he has not looked the best when he was in the spotlight of the big games. Yes he looked good in a few but he also has looked bad in a few of them. Those of us that really do watch him every week know that we have a good and maybe even a great QB. I am a very happy Pittsburgh fan with Ben at the helm. However, he has looked like total sh it this year until the KC game. Also keep in mind that most of these people are fantasy fans and they are looking for the Mannings and McNabbs. Not the guy that goes about winning in a ball control type of offense that is by nature of the team not going to normally put up hugh fantasy numbers. The two, fantasy QB and real team QB are very different.

 

There is no doubt that part of my jaded opinion on Roth is based on how absolutely horrendous he looked in the few games I've seen him play (2 which were championship games).

 

Both of the championship games that you talk about were indeed two of his worst games. I really can understand guys like you thinking he is just average at best. His numbers are never big in the fantasy world and that is what most of you look at. If you are not watching him every week then you really don't have any idea what most Pittsburgh people are excited about. I hope that he is now over the spotlight syndrome, as I fear the big game is his downfall, so that everyone can get an honest look at how good this young kid really is.

 

I am a homer that has watched an awful lot of football. I have seen great QB's. While I am not ready to put Roeth up there with the Aikmans of the world just yet, I sure am not going to be surprised when we look back and see that he will leave a very positive mark on this game.

 

I am a true Ben believer. Now lets get him to stay off the motorcycles and keep his head out of where ever it was in the his first three games this season.

 

Oh and final note: Why do we have to compare him to anyone? Be excited Pittsburgh.

[Rovers]

I think the main problem is that this board is made up of people everywhere. Until this season, people have not seen much of Ben. And on top of that and to be very honest, he has not looked the best when he was in the spotlight of the big games. Yes he looked good in a few but he also has looked bad in a few of them. Those of us that really do watch him every week know that we have a good and maybe even a great QB. I am a very happy Pittsburgh fan with Ben at the helm. However, he has looked like total sh it this year until the KC game. Also keep in mind that most of these people are fantasy fans and they are looking for the Mannings and McNabbs. Not the guy that goes about winning in a ball control type of offense that is by nature of the team not going to normally put up hugh fantasy numbers. The two, fantasy QB and real team QB are very different.

 

Both of the championship games that you talk about were indeed two of his worst games. I really can understand guys like you thinking he is just average at best. His numbers are never big in the fantasy world and that is what most of you look at. If you are not watching him every week then you really don't have any idea what most Pittsburgh people are excited about. I hope that he is now over the spotlight syndrome, as I fear the big game is his downfall, so that everyone can get an honest look at how good this young kid really is.

 

I am a homer that has watched an awful lot of football. I have seen great QB's. While I am not ready to put Roeth up there with the Aikmans of the world just yet, I sure am not going to be surprised when we look back and see that he will leave a very positive mark on this game.

 

I am a true Ben believer. Now lets get him to stay off the motorcycles and keep his head out of where ever it was in the his first three games this season.

 

Oh and final note: Why do we have to compare him to anyone? Be excited Pittsburgh.

 

 

So, to summarize, the people that question Rothlisberger's greatness are only FF people, and arent qualified to make a judgement on him as football fans? This is the sort of attitude that turns people off to the Steeler fans and their superiority complex.

 

I've seen plenty of Rothlisberger. He's like many other QB's. I remember the comeback he engineered against Baltimore on the road in his rookie year. I also remember his poor performances, especially in the playoffs. Take off the homer glasses. So far, like most QB's, he's been very good at times, and pretty awful at other times. Brady wore the "good game manager" monicker for a long time too, until he proved otherwise. Rothlisberger has much to prove before he lives up to what Steeler fans think he already is.

 

In the meantime, call him what he is... an average NFL QB who is still young and may, in time, prove to be good to very good. He isn't there yet, no matter how hard Steeler fans wish it to be.

[The Misfit]

However, my opinions are based only partly on stats... the other part is from watching him play a lot more than anyone who isn't a Steelers fan. Just like Aikman, he's a lot better than his numbers will show, but also like Aikman, he doesn't really have to put up huge numbers for his team to win.

 

 

These Big Ben threads are beyond silly. Schoolgirls talking about who has the better-looking boyfriend.

 

However, if we are going to compare based on watching him play -- yeah, I've done that. Miami is about 30 miles from my house. I saw Big Ben play a number of times in the MAC, mostly live. He was pretty good.

 

You want a good comparison, you need not look any further than the MAC. Big Ben made the first all-MAC squad in his junior year. Who was the first-team QB the prior two years? Byron Letfwich. Big Ben was the second QB in the MAC to throw for 4,000 yards in a season. Who was the first? Byron Leftwich.

 

If you could possibly be at all objective about it, Leftwich is the closest comparison to Big Ben. Put Leftwich in Pittsburgh, you still get a Super Bowl -- assuming all the same breaks happen -- and you'd probably be in first place over the Bengals and Ravens right now, because Leftwich has more sense than to chase after little old ladies with his face. Put Big Ben in Jacksonville, well, you probably don't even have 12 wins last year. Leftwich had 15 TDs and 5 INTs last year; Big Ben had 17/9. Big Ben did complete a higher percentage of his passes -- 62 to 58 -- but I think that hardly qualifies him to be compared to Aikman, any more than it qualifies Leftwich to be compared to Aikman.

 

Big Ben and Leftwich both played at the same time in the MAC, they were both very good MAC QBs, and they are both adequate NFL QBs for the systems they play in. If Jax got some breaks, they could make the same run the Steelers made last year. And if H8 came on here and started comparing Leftwich to HOF QBs, he'd get endless crap about it, too, especially from Steelers fans.

[DMD]

I still cannot get past how anyone could compare Big Ben to Troy Aikman

 

Aikman's first superbowl: 22 of 30 for 273 yards and 4 TD - no int.

Superbowl MVP

 

Trent Dilfer's first superbowl: 12 of 25 for 153 yards and 1 TD - no int.

 

Roethlisberger's first superbowl: 9 of 21 for 123 yards, 0 TD and 2 int.

 

I think we may be unfairly besmirching the name of Dilfer in this thread.

 

Oh yeah, a future HOF'er...

[Trots]

I still cannot get past how anyone could compare Big Ben to Troy Aikman

 

Aikman's first superbowl: 22 of 30 for 273 yards and 4 TD - no int.

Superbowl MVP

 

Trent Dilfer's first superbowl: 12 of 25 for 153 yards and 1 TD - no int.

 

Roethlisberger's first superbowl: 9 of 21 for 123 yards, 0 TD and 2 int.

 

I think we may be unfairly besmirching the name of Dilfer in this thread.

 

Oh yeah, a future HOF'er...

Dilfer is a deity in these parts.

[Seahawk37]

[Steelers4Life]

I still cannot get past how anyone could compare Big Ben to Troy Aikman

 

Aikman's first superbowl: 22 of 30 for 273 yards and 4 TD - no int.

Superbowl MVP

 

Trent Dilfer's first superbowl: 12 of 25 for 153 yards and 1 TD - no int.

 

Roethlisberger's first superbowl: 9 of 21 for 123 yards, 0 TD and 2 int.

 

I think we may be unfairly besmirching the name of Dilfer in this thread.

 

Oh yeah, a future HOF'er...

 

 

The ignorance in this post is astounding.

 

You want to cmopare them based on one game?

 

Sorry, but I backed up my positions with a ton of stats and observations over an entire regular season and an entire playoff season. You want to disregard anything I said and just use the Super Bowl as means to compare them? Great. Compare Ben's 2005 regular season to any of Aikman's regualar seasons in his entire HOF career. Aside from 1992, Ben's right there or better than any of them. If his Super Bowl performance tarnishes his entire season in your eyes, so be it.

 

Ben's stats in the 3 games leading up to the 2005 Super Bowl? 49-72, 680, 7 TDs, 1 INT, and 1 rushing TD