The Holy Roller Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 While the testing is still flawed, to some extent, there is a way to get the management involved enough to prevent the use. Its simple..every time a player is caught and suspended, that team cannot replace the roster spot during the suspension. If a coach knows that a particular player is suspicious, he is more motivated to either sit him down or not take a chance if it means going into a season down one (or more) players. This would trickle down to the colleges and combines and when it gets out that so-and-so is using, most teams won't take the risk. It would take a couple of seasons, but I'm willing to bet you see the average size of the NFL lineman decrease decidedly. In baseball, do you really think a manger wants to have to go any portion of a season with 24 players, assuming one tests positive? Hell no. Right now they stick their heads in the sand or look the other way. You don't think the Yankees were suspicious of Giambi? Tell Torre and Cashman they're not going to be able to replace him if he's caught and see how much of a contract he's offered. Make them responsible for policing themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hell no. There are safety considerations at play here. Fans who would rather see "a bigger and better show" at the expese of the health and safety of these men, fathers, sons and brothers...should go register for a local cock-fighting ring... It isn't just the players that are fun to watch, but the GAME is fun to watch...I don't get the original point. I like watching the sport for what it is and seeing a great catch by someone running 4.6 is just as cool as if he were running 4.4. Put it this way, the game is bigger than the players...if you don't believe me go watch a well-coached Pop Warner league team, it's actually a lot of fun to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 [quote name=QUOTE(Atlas @ 10/18/06 6:43pm) While the testing is still flawed, to some extent, there is a way to get the management involved enough to prevent the use. Its simple..every time a player is caught and suspended, that team cannot replace the roster spot during the suspension. If a coach knows that a particular player is suspicious, he is more motivated to either sit him down or not take a chance if it means going into a season down one (or more) players. This would trickle down to the colleges and combines and when it gets out that so-and-so is using, most teams won't take the risk. It would take a couple of seasons, but I'm willing to bet you see the average size of the NFL lineman decrease decidedly. In baseball, do you really think a manger wants to have to go any portion of a season with 24 players, assuming one tests positive? Hell no. Right now they stick their heads in the sand or look the other way. You don't think the Yankees were suspicious of Giambi? Tell Torre and Cashman they're not going to be able to replace him if he's caught and see how much of a contract he's offered. Make them responsible for policing themselves. I don't think it's legal to punish coaches unless they know. Just because the feds break laws all the time it is still better to have laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 If Kenny Rodgers was caught with pine tar(using a banned substance) and ejected from the game (that carries a ten game suspension) would Leyland be able to replace him on the roster by either adding a 25th player for that game or any of the following WS games? Nope. Same idea. Be responsible for your team. If you know or suspect it may be happening and its going to affect you and the rest of the team, you're going to be more likely to be proactive in preventing a negative situation. The bad side to it is when a coach legitimetly gets blind-sided by a player he had no inkling of and really may have done something if he knew. I really don't think Jason Grimsley was on anyone's top ten list of steroid suspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdog Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 damn right they should be legal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standale Connection Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hell no. There are safety considerations at play here. Fans who would rather see "a bigger and better show" at the expese of the health and safety of these men, fathers, sons and brothers...should go register for a local cock-fighting ring... It isn't just the players that are fun to watch, but the GAME is fun to watch...I don't get the original point. I like watching the sport for what it is and seeing a great catch by someone running 4.6 is just as cool as if he were running 4.4. Put it this way, the game is bigger than the players...if you don't believe me go watch a well-coached Pop Warner league team, it's actually a lot of fun to watch. If you think your watching a steriod free show right now, you are mistaken. I don't want to throw out a % but I guarantee some of these monsters are on something illegal. My original point was from a frustrated Fitzgerald fantasy owner, thats it. But, I just think the reaction to Baseball players on steriods was much greater than the reaction of NFL players on them. Out of sight out of mind, I think thats we all think when we sit down to watch the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Wow, Atlas - impressive knowledge. Off topic - how do you feel about 7-8 y.o. Little Leaguers pitching? My kid is a decent SS already, but he's getting pressured to pitch, just cause he's got a good throw to 1st. I've heard everything from his arm will fall off by age 13 to its A-okay as long as the pitch count stays low. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 bump - still around, Atlas? Maybe I'll try to PM you for an answer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standale Connection Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 If this topic sparked a response from "The Commentary from the edge" article this week, I am honored. I do feel steriods are a serious issue in all sports right now. I do hope we figure out a way to get rid of them, one way might be to start testing younger people - maybe at the college and even the High School level. "Cheaters Never Win" - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 bump - still around, Atlas? Maybe I'll try to PM you for an answer... Sorry, still celebrating Giants win! I think there are general rules and then individuals rules in the case of young pitchers. Of course convential wisdom is to keep them away from the breaking pitches (i.e., curve balls, sliders, etc) until their arms are more mature. Most Little Leagues keep the kids either on a pitch count or innings count/week. Probably a good thing. At this age my concern would be control. Maybe, maybe a change of speeds (the old "Palm balls" are probably better than trying to teach a split finger at this age) Those are general rules. Now you have to take into account different make-ups. You'll always have the Nolan Ryans and Roger Clemens who befuddle conventional wisdom and still bring it in their 40's plus. Some kids will naturally be able to throw hard and longer. Again, as a general rule, the longer leaner athlete has the better angle and torque to pitch. He has an advantage over the shorter stockier build for this position. It becomes body make-up. Fast twitch vs. slow twitch fibers in those muscles (sort of like watching long lean guys run maratons vs. the bulkier muscled guys run sprints). And since a lot of kids may not sprout until mid-High School age, you need to be careful. Keep in mind that the shoulder joint was made to throw under hand, not over. That's why these softball pitchers (and the Met's Bradford) can pitch much more frequently. Little to no rotator cuff involved. So mechanic become an issue. Might be worthwhile taking a budding pitcher to a professional to have his pitching mechanics evaluated to make sure he's not putting undo stress on the joints and not allow him to get into bad habits early that will be hard to break later. We have a slew of them around here in Northern NJ. I have coached elementary, mid-school and HS level athletes and I was alway of the opinion that you had to have restraint from the athlete, parents and coaches whenever it looked like you had a budding star. If any of the three was out of control, meaning a little too over ambitious for the age group, the ahtlete would suffer either mentally or physically. Not really on the topic of this thread, but I hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 If this topic sparked a response from "The Commentary from the edge" article this week, I am honored. I do feel steriods are a serious issue in all sports right now. I do hope we figure out a way to get rid of them, one way might be to start testing younger people - maybe at the college and even the High School level. "Cheaters Never Win" - New Jersey has instituted steroid testing this year for HS level athletes. Its only being done on random team members that make the championship/playoff level. Its a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeman Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Thanks for the reply. I PMed you too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standale Connection Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 New Jersey has instituted steroid testing this year for HS level athletes. Its only being done on random team members that make the championship/playoff level. Its a start. I was wondering what the punishment was for testing positive in high school? I would hope it would be an automatic season long suspension. If the kids know this going in, it may deter them. Who wants to lose out on their senior year season of high school football, certainly not me -I don't care how skinny I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I was wondering what the punishment was for testing positive in high school? I would hope it would be an automatic season long suspension. If the kids know this going in, it may deter them. Who wants to lose out on their senior year season of high school football, certainly not me -I don't care how skinny I am. Since they're testing at the end of the season-- at the championships, --I believe it is their intention to strip the title from a team with an offending player. It could be that they're going to test just prior to the finals. They have routinely done this with players used who were deemed to be ineligible for acedmeic or other reasons (illegal residency, etc) The team loses every game in which the player has participated. The season is over. Doesn't deter a player who's finished, but I will call the local Athletic Director to confirm my understanding of the process. I have been out of coaching for a few years now, so I get the info, but don't completely process it since I am no longer responsible for a team on a day to day basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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