Louisville vs West Virginia Thursday Night

[theeohiostate]

I hope so , OSU needs another belt

 

 

The winner of this game will be disappointed when 1 loss Florida-Auburn-Texas-Cal or Mich jumps over them to face the Bucks.

[Slugs]

Well lets at least see....

 

Go Cards!!!

[Rockerbraves]

I hope so , OSU needs another belt

The winner of this game will be disappointed when 1 loss Florida-Auburn-Texas-Cal or Mich jumps over them to face the Bucks.

 

What is the feeling around the Ohio State fan base that IF Ohio State were to lose to Michigan by say less than 10 points, would they expect to get a rematch vs. an undefeated Michigan in the NC game?

Edited October 31, 2006 by Rockerbraves

[Coffeeman]

I think the BCS commissioners would do whatever it takes to avoid a NC game with 2 schools from the same conference.....

[GWPFFL BrianW]

The BCS Commissioners have very little to do with fighting against what computers will determine to be a #1 vs #2 match up between #1 Michigan and #2 1 loss Ohio State. And Ohio State will very unlikely drop any farther than #3 in the polls under that scenario. That's why I say, if Michigan beats Ohio State, you will see a rematch. Now, if Ohio State beats Michigan, then I think you still might see a rematch, but it isn't as likely, as I think the winner of WVU-Louis (if they can run the table after there game this week) will get some more love by the computers, because they will be playing the most "demanding" part of their schedule. The thing is, look at the rankings as they are now. I mean Ohio State and Michigan are 2 full points ahead of the rest of the competition. That's a LOT by the BCS standards, and history has proven that a late season loss, can be very damaging, but when you lose to #1 or you lose to #2, you don't get punished too much by pollsters. Look at Oklahoma in 03, they weren't punished hardly at all by losing to K-State. Nebraska in 01' is another example, and they got slaughtered.

 

The BCS commissioners have a lot of say I feel in other BCS games, where the Bowl committees actually pick the teams, but when it comes to the National Championship game, it is what it is. You're getting #1 vs #2 (according to the very flawed BCS). The computers are gonna be what they are gonna be, and the polls aren't gonna punish Ohio State for losing a close game to there arch rival late in teh season, who happens to be the #2 team in the nation.

 

 

Edit to add: With USC now out, the BCS will not have the luxury of having a controversy free year. Teams will get screwed regardless of what happens. If you have Ohio State vs undefeated WVU or Louis, the SEC Champion (should they have 1 loss, that isn't set in stone) will argue that they didn't play the tough competition (rightfully so). If Michigan plays Ohio State again the rest will argue that conference teams shouldn't match up in a NATIONAL Championship game (also a good argument), and if a 1 loss SEC team gets in, the undefeated WVU or Louis team will argue that hey, they did everything they could, they dominated the schedule that they had in front of them (also a very valid point). And I will also say, that if Ohio State ends up playing and losing (or Michigan for that matter) in the national championship game, be prepared for another split national championship.

Edited November 1, 2006 by GWPFFL BrianW

[Coffeeman]

The BCS Commissioners have very little to do with fighting against what computers will determine to be a #1 vs #2 match up between #1 Michigan and #2 1 loss Ohio State.

 

True, their hands might be tied for now. (But would the phonelines be burning each week with attempts to influence the coaches' votes for the polls? Maybe.) So let me clarify - if it happens this year, it will never happen again, short of a playoff system, anyway....

Edited November 1, 2006 by Coffeeman

[Rockerbraves]

True, their hands might be tied for now. (But would the phonelines be burning each week with attempts to influence the coaches' votes for the polls? Maybe.) So let me clarify - if it happens this year, it will never happen again, short of a playoff system, anyway....

 

The BCS system isn't perfect as some say but it's nice to know it minimizes the human subjective element of the equation. It's a given that the majority of college football fans would rather NOT see a rematch between Ohio State and Michigan. And I really don't think either of those teams want a replay either. Sure the loser will after the game, but not prior to.

 

However I'll take a repeat matchup based on the "so called" BCS flawed system versus the alternative of having the participants of the National Championship Game chosen based on potential TV ratings or simply fan preferences. If that were the case then teams with wider national appeal like Notre Dame would gain an advantage.

 

The only problem with this rematch is that for the most part Ohio State and Michigan have only played Big 10 opponents with the exception of a few out of conference games. Which by the way have solidified their high rankings aka Ohio State's road win over Texas (although very early in the season) and Michigan's big road win at Notre Dame. This is not a knock on either team or the Big 10 since all teams play majority conference games.

 

As the BCS system is today the best way to avoid an all one conference National Championship game would be to have all the major conferences play a conference championship game like the SEC & Big 12. That way it would be much less likely that the BCS National Championship Game would involve two teams from the same conference. Keep in mind, this doesn't guarantee that the two best teams play in the NC since it is possible to have the two best teams from the same conference, but it would be the closest thing to a playoff.

Edited November 1, 2006 by Rockerbraves

[detlef]

It's all a crock and the SEC might as well quit the BCS. The current system rewards teams from major confrences that only have a few good teams in a given year. This is why Oklahoma, Texas, USC have fared well in it and why Ohio St. and Mich are set to do well this year. The fact that LSU managed to win it required an amazing run and the fact that Auburn was shut out despite getting through THE TOUGHEST CONFERENCE YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT was absolute robbery.

 

Before you guys start screaming about Wisconson, Iowa and god knows who else in the Big 11, ask yourself how you stack up through 7 teams. That is the true test because it's a whole lot easier to get up for 2 or 3 really big games a year than it is to get up for 2-3 really big ones and another 3 games against teams that have a very good chance to step up and beat you.

 

SEC (In no particular order except for the fact that Georgia and Ala are certainly no higher than 6 and 7)

Aub

FLA

Tenn

LSU

Ark

Georgia

Ala

 

There's not a team on that list that anyone would think of looking past. Certainly a team like OSU or Mich would be a decided favorite over the bottom half of that list but it would be a whole lot tougher game than say Purdue, Indiana or whatever dreck rounds out the top seven of that conference.

 

Thus, a one loss team from the SEC should certainly have a claim to the BCS title over the loser of OSU v Mich, teams that basically went 1-1 against elite competion as opposed to maybe 3-1 as FLA might go if they win the SEC title game.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

While I agree with most of what you said about the SEC being the best conference (I believe it is, this year, not necesarily every year) I think its unfair to rag on the Big Ten being too top heavy this year. The Big Ten plays the SEC in 2 bowl games that almost always features The #2 and #3 teams from the respective conferences each year, and the Big Ten has fared quite well in recent years in those games.

 

If you look at the 03 and 04 seasons that you point out, the SEC wasn't exactly as strong top to bottom as it is this year. In 03, you had LSU, Georgia, and Florida who I would consider good-great teams. In 04, Auburn was the class of the SEC, with Tennessee overachieving, Florida in a down year, and LSU got hot at the end but the early season loss to Auburn killed them. My point is... if you're gonna run the table in a major conference, very rarely is the conference at it's strongest.

[detlef]

While I agree with most of what you said about the SEC being the best conference (I believe it is, this year, not necesarily every year) I think its unfair to rag on the Big Ten being too top heavy this year. The Big Ten plays the SEC in 2 bowl games that almost always features The #2 and #3 teams from the respective conferences each year, and the Big Ten has fared quite well in recent years in those games.

 

If you look at the 03 and 04 seasons that you point out, the SEC wasn't exactly as strong top to bottom as it is this year. In 03, you had LSU, Georgia, and Florida who I would consider good-great teams. In 04, Auburn was the class of the SEC, with Tennessee overachieving, Florida in a down year, and LSU got hot at the end but the early season loss to Auburn killed them. My point is... if you're gonna run the table in a major conference, very rarely is the conference at it's strongest.

 

What is unfair about ragging on the Big 11 being top heavy this year? Are they not? Wis is the only other team even in the top 25 and they are no where near as good as their record indicates. I mean, look at that schedule. As I said, after OSU and Mich play they will have each played 2 games against teams around the top 10. And frankly, are either Texas or ND really all that great? Perhaps I should back off OSU and Mich and wonder what in the hell Texas is doing ranked ahead of the SEC teams. I mean, they've struggled to win against good but hardly great teams and got outclassed by OSU. Tenn pasted CA and barely lost to FL. In terms of top 10ish teams, FL has already played Auburn, Tenn, and LSU and will likely have to play another in the SEC final.

 

By and large, the Big 11 has always been top heavy. I remember back when I lived in CA and followed the Pac 10 closely, the Rose Bowl always featured some 8-3 Pac 10 team beating up on a 10-1 Big 10 team. Why? Because the Pac 10 was way tougher so it was really hard to make it out of your league games unscathed. What has changed? The Big 12, Big 11, and USC will continue to get fat off this system because they have just enough strong opponents to avoid association with the Boise St. and Utahs but don't have to strap it up week in and week out like you have to in the SEC.

 

Yes, this is a particularly strong year for the SEC, but of the 7 I listed above, every school but perhaps Ark would make anyone stand up and take notice when you see them on your schedule any year you play them. Further, since you admit this is a strong batch of SEC teams, doesn't that mean that a one loss team from that confrence should be taken over any other one loss teams?

[GWPFFL BrianW]

The Big Ten dominated the rose bowl throughout the 90's winning in 92, 93, 94, 96, 97, 98, and 99. And as I said, the Big Ten has fared very well against the SEC in other bowl match ups, that haven't exactly featured Michigan or Ohio State. Wisconsin hammered Auburn last year, Iowa destroyed Florda 3 years ago, and beat LSU 2 years ago. Even in smaller bowls, in 02, Minnesota, a mid pack Big Ten team at BEST that year knocked off the SEC WEst champions Arkansas. I don't know how else you can examine a conference strength but to look how they fare against teams from other strong conferences, in evenly matched games. And I want to add, that those are all virtual home games for SEC.

 

Again I want to make my point again, to go undefeated in a major conference, the conference as a whole usually isn't as strong. Thats the case even in the SEC. It is very rare that a team goes undefeated, and it's conference is top to bottom pretty strong. The Big Ten did it in 02, featuring a National Champion and 3 Top 10 teams to finish the year out, and pretty much dominating the bowl season losing only 2 games. Not many conferences can say they pulled that off.

[detlef]

The Big Ten dominated the rose bowl throughout the 90's winning in 92, 93, 94, 96, 97, 98, and 99. And as I said, the Big Ten has fared very well against the SEC in other bowl match ups, that haven't exactly featured Michigan or Ohio State. Wisconsin hammered Auburn last year, Iowa destroyed Florda 3 years ago, and beat LSU 2 years ago. Even in smaller bowls, in 02, Minnesota, a mid pack Big Ten team at BEST that year knocked off the SEC WEst champions Arkansas. I don't know how else you can examine a conference strength but to look how they fare against teams from other strong conferences, in evenly matched games. And I want to add, that those are all virtual home games for SEC.

 

Again I want to make my point again, to go undefeated in a major conference, the conference as a whole usually isn't as strong. Thats the case even in the SEC. It is very rare that a team goes undefeated, and it's conference is top to bottom pretty strong. The Big Ten did it in 02, featuring a National Champion and 3 Top 10 teams to finish the year out, and pretty much dominating the bowl season losing only 2 games. Not many conferences can say they pulled that off.

Touche on the 90s Big 10 record, but my opinion was formed during the late 70s and throughout the 80s when the pac-10 went 12-3. More importantly, I always recalled the Big 10 team having a much better record going in.

 

I completely understand your point about any major conference team needing it to be an off year to go undefeated. I also would never dream of saying that a one loss SEC team should get the nod over any undefeated team from a major conference. However, I think it would be a total crock if any one loss team got the nod over a team from a conference that boasts 5 teams inside the top 13. Perhaps an easier schedule can't be held against a team that hasn't lost, but it sure can be against someone who has.

 

Once again, I find it amazing that Texas is ranked ahead of every SEC team considering how tough it is each and every week in that conference.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

I would like to point out, that the 90's dominance by the SEC, there is one Big Ten team that stands out as losing the majority of those match ups, and it's Ohio State. Not gonna knock OSU, but that is 1/2 of the Big 2 in the supposed top heavy conference. So in recent years, it's been the next tier of Big Ten teams doing the conference proud and picking up very good wins over good SEC opponents. Again, I want to point out, that most years, there is no doubt, the SEC is the deepest conference, and this year that is the case, but the Big Ten hasn't been slouches. The Big Tens record in BCS games is outstanding as well, and this year, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Big Ten boasted the best non conference record out of any other conference.

 

As for Texas, they are a good team, with 1 big win on there schedule, that was Oklahoma, and there 1 loss was to Ohio State. I think the Big 12 is underrated this year, so I'm not gonna knock Texas too bad, they have a great defense, and Colt McCoy is doing about as good of job as one could expect after replacing a legendary QB like Vince Young. We'll just have to let the season play out. No matter what happens, the controversy will be there at the end regardless of what happens. The perfect BCS scenario that happend last year, will not happen this year.

[detlef]

I would like to point out, that the 90's dominance by the SEC, there is one Big Ten team that stands out as losing the majority of those match ups, and it's Ohio State. Not gonna knock OSU, but that is 1/2 of the Big 2 in the supposed top heavy conference. So in recent years, it's been the next tier of Big Ten teams doing the conference proud and picking up very good wins over good SEC opponents. Again, I want to point out, that most years, there is no doubt, the SEC is the deepest conference, and this year that is the case, but the Big Ten hasn't been slouches. The Big Tens record in BCS games is outstanding as well, and this year, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Big Ten boasted the best non conference record out of any other conference.

 

As for Texas, they are a good team, with 1 big win on there schedule, that was Oklahoma, and there 1 loss was to Ohio State. I think the Big 12 is underrated this year, so I'm not gonna knock Texas too bad, they have a great defense, and Colt McCoy is doing about as good of job as one could expect after replacing a legendary QB like Vince Young. We'll just have to let the season play out. No matter what happens, the controversy will be there at the end regardless of what happens. The perfect BCS scenario that happend last year, will not happen this year.

 

FWIW, the SEC is 32-7 non-conference and has only one loss (Ark to USC week one) out of conference among seven top teams i mentioned. Also, 4 of those 7 losses are by the bottom two teams and 5 of those 7 losses are to ranked opponents including Louisville, W Virginia, Michigan, USC, and Wake Forest. It should also be noted that this is not an example of the SEC not matching up well out of conference as these were all bottom tier SEC teams playing the best of what the other conferences had to offer. Of course one might not have said that about Wake prior to the season and Ark has certainly proven itself to be very good.

[Rockerbraves]

This season is different than most in that there were no heavily favored preseason picks to win it all. Ohio State took the lead in the polls when they went on the road and beat Texas. In all likelyhood if Texas would have won that game they would have been number 1 then and probably still would be today considering they haven't lost since and the fact they are the defending National Champions. So if a 1 lost team makes it to the NC I believe Texas deserves much consideration.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Rockerbraves

[GWPFFL BrianW]

I said in a previous post, that I don't believe a conference like the SEC has to play an incrediblly tough non conference schedule, because they play each other. This year no doubt, that the SEC is very deep, and I believe will do pretty well in the bowl games to prove that.

[sacosud]

OSU vs Michigan in a rematch, I feel would never happen and it should not happen. Michigan beats us then they deserve to go and a undeafeted Louisville should also go, I mean how does a undeafted team in a BCS league not go over a 1 loss team????? Big East could and should throw a fit if something like this was to happen. I would like to see OSU vs Flordia myself but that's looking slimmer in my opinion Louisville gets past Rutgers next week and they can book their tickets to face winner of OSU and Michigan. The loser of Michigan and OSU plays USC in the Rose Bowl. No disrespect to Illinios,Ball State, Indiana, and Northwestern.

[KevinL]

FWIW, the SEC is 32-7 non-conference and has only one loss (Ark to USC week one) out of conference among seven top teams i mentioned. Also, 4 of those 7 losses are by the bottom two teams and 5 of those 7 losses are to ranked opponents including Louisville, W Virginia, Michigan, USC, and Wake Forest. It should also be noted that this is not an example of the SEC not matching up well out of conference as these were all bottom tier SEC teams playing the best of what the other conferences had to offer. Of course one might not have said that about Wake prior to the season and Ark has certainly proven itself to be very good.

 

 

The Big 10 it 30-11 in non-conference games and has only 3 non-conference losses (Penn State, Purdue, and Michigan State all lost to Notre Dame) among it's top 7 teams (Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Penn State, Iowa, Purdue, Michigan State).

 

Quickly glancing at the SEC schedule, the only non-conference win over a ranked opponent appears to be Tennessee over #9 California in week 1.

 

The Big Ten isn't much better in this category, with only 2 non-conference wins over ranked opponents (OSU over #2 Texas and Michigan over #2 Notre Dame).

 

So in reality, none of the top teams in either the Big Ten or the SEC have really played a very challenging non-conference schedule.

[detlef]

The Big 10 it 30-11 in non-conference games and has only 3 non-conference losses (Penn State, Purdue, and Michigan State all lost to Notre Dame) among it's top 7 teams (Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Penn State, Iowa, Purdue, Michigan State).

 

Quickly glancing at the SEC schedule, the only non-conference win over a ranked opponent appears to be Tennessee over #9 California in week 1.

 

The Big Ten isn't much better in this category, with only 2 non-conference wins over ranked opponents (OSU over #2 Texas and Michigan over #2 Notre Dame).

 

So in reality, none of the top teams in either the Big Ten or the SEC have really played a very challenging non-conference schedule.

 

Given how brutal the SEC league schedule is, I think they may be the only conference to get a free pass on not scheduling tough out of conference games. As I mentioned before, if FLA is to win out, they will have posted a 3-1 record against Auburn, Tenn, LSU, and Ark which is a batch of tough games that likely nobody else in the country can match.

 

All that said, that, of course, does not mean that OSU and Mich aren't the best two teams in the country. However, I do think that a team that only plays 2 games against elite opponents (whether due to their own scheduling or the fact that they're in a conference that doesn't produce enough strong teams) should be penalized if they don't win both.