Furd Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Oh wait ... I forgot ... when you actually watch the games his 16 completions out of 40 attempts for 197 yards 1 TD and 2 INTs LOOKS MUCH MUCH MUCH better than it actually is ... Vick makes those horrible stats look good! Those undoubtedly were the most exciting 16 completions out of 40 attempts for 197 yards 1 TD and 2 INTs in the history of the NFL. Besides all he does is win, I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Vick couldn't carry Romo's jock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Nice. No facts to defend Vick so you deflect. Even the most hardened Vick lovers have run out of excuses for his poor performance. Oh wait ... I forgot ... when you actually watch the games his 16 completions out of 40 attempts for 197 yards 1 TD and 2 INTs LOOKS MUCH MUCH MUCH better than it actually is ... Vick makes those horrible stats look good! Hey Grits, what he is doing is known as an Ad-Hominem argument (meaning "argument against the person"). Instead of debating the facts/argument put forth, he is trying to attack the person who put those facts/arguments forth in the first place. It's a means of trying to discredit the presenter instead of the argument itself. It's always the last gasp of someone who has lost the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Hey Grits, what he is doing is known as an Ad-Hominem argument (meaning "argument against the person"). Instead of debating the facts/argument put forth, he is trying to attack the person who put those facts/arguments forth in the first place. It's a means of trying to discredit the presenter instead of the argument itself. It's always the last gasp of someone who has lost the debate. This I know ... it's not like I blame him ... his position is indefensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Nice. No facts to defend Vick so you deflect. Even the most hardened Vick lovers have run out of excuses for his poor performance. Oh wait ... I forgot ... when you actually watch the games his 16 completions out of 40 attempts for 197 yards 1 TD and 2 INTs LOOKS MUCH MUCH MUCH better than it actually is ... Vick makes those horrible stats look good! Facts? You're the one ignorantly yapping away about a game you didn't even see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 This I know ... it's not like I blame him ... his position is indefensible. True, enough I suppose. It's like trying to blame the special for doing something wrong. I guess he really isn't smart enough to know the difference. What?!? Did I just launch an Ad-Hominem attack on Big Score 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 True, enough I suppose. It's like trying to blame the special for doing something wrong. I guess he really isn't smart enough to know the difference. What?!? Did I just launch an Ad-Hominem attack on Big Score 1? Please tell me you're not as ignorant as Blitz & commenting on a game & the play of it's players, that you didn't watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 saw enough on the espn highlights to further strengthen the argument. You don't have to watch the entire game to know. You have no argument. Trying to discredit me or anyone else on the basis of watching the whole game is not helping you. I can bet that YOU yourself have not watched ALL of Vick's games! Were not just talking about 1 game here, doofus. Were talking about his entire career! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 Where is Waterwoman to defend his lover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 saw enough on the espn highlights to further strengthen the argument. You don't have to watch the entire game to know. This is BS. You have no argument. Trying to discredit me or anyone else on the basis of watching the whole game is not helping you. Uhhh...yeah it does. You're sitting here trying to tell me you know how Vick & the Falcons played over the entire game, from 30 seconds of ESPN highlights. I can bet that YOU yourself have not watched ALL of Vick's games! How much would you like to bet? Were not just talking about 1 game here, doofus. Read the thread & see when these posts started today doofus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerwin8 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Amen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 This is BS. Uhhh...yeah it does. You're sitting here trying to tell me you know how Vick & the Falcons played over the entire game, from 30 seconds of ESPN highlights. How much would you like to bet? Read the thread & see when these posts started today doofus. Once again you've said nothing to further your cause. You probably would have made more sense if you just told everyone to "shutup" instead of trying to pretend like your some smart guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerwin8 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Once again you've said nothing to further your cause. You probably would have made more sense if you just told everyone to "shutup" instead of trying to pretend like your some smart guy. Vick played horribly. The receivers played horribly. The backup defense played horribly. Special teams wasn't all that bad, though. That doesn't give ignorant fans who have no idea what happened during the game (e.g. you) any right to assess blame on anybody. And no, you did not see "enough on the espn highlights to further strengthen the argument." Highlights only rarely tell the story of a football game, or any sporting event other than baseball for that matter. Sure, it's fun to jump on board with everybody making fun of Vick and his supporters, but when it's pretty clear that you don't know what you're talking about, you'd do better off to sit on the side and watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Vick played horribly. The receivers played horribly. The backup defense played horribly. Special teams wasn't all that bad, though. That doesn't give ignorant fans who have no idea what happened during the game (e.g. you) any right to assess blame on anybody. And no, you did not see "enough on the espn highlights to further strengthen the argument." Highlights only rarely tell the story of a football game, or any sporting event other than baseball for that matter. Sure, it's fun to jump on board with everybody making fun of Vick and his supporters, but when it's pretty clear that you don't know what you're talking about, you'd do better off to sit on the side and watch. You Vick zealots have been saying the same crap for years and years now. No matter which way you dice it Vick just doesn't add up to the hype you assign him. The fact that I didn't watch the entire game today is irrelevant. I've seen enough of his games (as have you) to know when I see a good/great QB and a sham (Vick). If Vick threw nothing but interceptions for the rest of the season you would still find a way to blame somebody besides him. Own up to the fact that he ain't no NFL caliber QB. Maybe a backup NFL QB instead. Simply calling someone ignorant and saying they don't know what they are talking about doesn't make it so. There is a pattern in Vick's play that you and your ilk refuse to see, even though it is in front of you plain as day. And, I might add, you once again attack the person forwarding the argument instead of the argument itself. If all you can do to support your side is call other people names then you have no argument at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerwin8 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 You Vick zealots have been saying the same crap for years and years now. No matter which way you dice it Vick just doesn't add up to the hype you assign him. The fact that I didn't watch the entire game today is irrelevant. I've seen enough of his games (as have you) to know when I see a good/great QB and a sham (Vick). If Vick threw nothing but interceptions for the rest of the season you would still find a way to blame somebody besides him. Own up to the fact that he ain't no NFL caliber QB. Maybe a backup NFL QB instead. Simply calling someone ignorant and saying they don't know what they are talking about doesn't make it so. There is a pattern in Vick's play that you and your ilk refuse to see, even though it is in front of you plain as day. And, I might add, you once again attack the person forwarding the argument instead of the argument itself. If all you can do to support your side is call other people names then you have no argument at all. Actually, I believe I confronted the argument and only briefly mentioned your ignorance. The real trouble here, and the reason that every Vick/anti-Vick thread lasts so long, is that there are so many people who refuse to take Vick off of a pedestal and so many people who refuse to acknowledge that he can play football. You've made your stance pretty clear. That's why I called you ignorant. I also find it pretty hilarious that you feel like watching the game is irrelevant. That said, by no means am I a "Vick zealot", but I am a fan of the Falcons. I don't assign any hype, I just follow the team and support them. I do think that Vick is a good quarterback, and there isn't much sense in arguing that because experience tells me that neither of our stances will change. On his good days, Vick can win a football game by himself. On his bad days, nothing short of a perfect defensive effort can save the team. History shows that he has more bad days than good, but to say that he shouldn't be a starting NFL quarterback is ridiculous. With Vick, a makeshift defense and a sub-par offensive line have a better record than most NFL teams. Maybe you ought to own up to the fact that he's better than a backup... then we'll be closer to a middle ground. Either way, I'm off for the night. I hope you find someone else to argue with you so you aren't too bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Actually, I believe I confronted the argument and only briefly mentioned your ignorance. The real trouble here, and the reason that every Vick/anti-Vick thread lasts so long, is that there are so many people who refuse to take Vick off of a pedestal and so many people who refuse to acknowledge that he can play football. You've made your stance pretty clear. That's why I called you ignorant. I also find it pretty hilarious that you feel like watching the game is irrelevant. That said, by no means am I a "Vick zealot", but I am a fan of the Falcons. I don't assign any hype, I just follow the team and support them. I do think that Vick is a good quarterback, and there isn't much sense in arguing that because experience tells me that neither of our stances will change. On his good days, Vick can win a football game by himself. On his bad days, nothing short of a perfect defensive effort can save the team. History shows that he has more bad days than good, but to say that he shouldn't be a starting NFL quarterback is ridiculous. With Vick, a makeshift defense and a sub-par offensive line have a better record than most NFL teams. Maybe you ought to own up to the fact that he's better than a backup... then we'll be closer to a middle ground. Either way, I'm off for the night. I hope you find someone else to argue with you so you aren't too bored. I can certainly agree with the highlighted section above. Here's the rub ... when your QB has more bad days than good how can you possibly consider him anything but BELOW AVERAGE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Nothing new to add. Just checking in to enjoy the show & see if Waterman has the cajones to show up & defend his man, since he's ultra-quick to post when the guy does anything right (I know, limited opportunties & all, but still...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Vick led my team to victory this weekend with 14 points. Granted would have loved to gotten more however he still produced even on an off day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Vick led my team to victory this weekend with 14 points. Granted would have loved to gotten more however he still produced even on an off day. Oh and by the way my opponent started Bulger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Vick led my team to victory this weekend with 14 points. Granted would have loved to gotten more however he still produced even on an off day. This discussion is not about Vick's ability to produce fantasy points. We are discussing his merits, or lack thereof, as an NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vatican Hitsquad Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Please tell me you're not as ignorant as Blitz & commenting on a game & the play of it's players, that you didn't watch? BigScore, doesn't this mean you have no valid statements and opinions in up to 13 regular season games a week and 31 other teams a season, since you are not watchign every play of every game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Special teams wasn't all that bad, though. Personally I wasn't too keen on us allowing a Brownie through the line untouched to block a punt. I thought pretty much every facet of the Falcons game was bad yesterday. However there's no doubt the offense has to shoulder much of the blame for yesterdays loss. Remember, Lelie & Jenkins both dropped easy TD's right in their hands yesterday. If they catch those balls instead of dropping, this thread would not have been bumped. Of the two picks Vick threw, one was a definite :X & the other was not a badly throw ball, just a great play by the defender. The fumble? That's just Vick. He knocked that ball out himself, with his knee, when he was scrambling around on 2nd & 20 at the end of the game trying to make something happen. The play before, when it was 1st & 10, Vick had scrambled to the sideline for an easy 1st down only to have it called back for a hold away from the play. That unnecessary hold doesn't happen, then neither does 2nd & 20. The 2nd & 20 doesn't happen, then neither does the fumble. Of course, if Lelie or Jenkins had caught either of their easy TD's instead of dropping them, the fumble wouldn't have happened either. In fact, the joke today is that they're going to begin a new Soap Opera named the Dropsies. The starring cast will be the Falcons WR's & Crump Still, there's no doubt Vick left his A game at home, he could have definitely played better...as could ALL of the Falcons. It just cracks me up to no end though, that whenever the Falcons lose, the Vick haters like Blitz rush to find an old Vick thread so they can ressurect it & bash away. Doesn't matter if Blitz & tosberg34 are completely clueles as to what actually went down in the game or not, because they saw 30 seconds worth of ESPN highlights and know what happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 BigScore, doesn't this mean you have no valid statements and opinions in up to 13 regular season games a week and 31 other teams a season, since you are not watchign every play of every game? No, because like DMD, I have several TV's set up, all going at once. Throw in the two PC's with Stream TV & I pretty much see every game. Only time I don't get to watch the live action is when I'm at the Georgia Dome, but that's what recording is for. Don't you do this TVH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishFreak Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 This discussion is not about Vick's ability to produce fantasy points. We are discussing his merits, or lack thereof, as an NFL QB. I think you have to take into account his ability to produce fantasy points when you go on and on with these Vick threads. His crazy rushing totals is what makes him a starting QB and gives fantasy owners smiles. The guy is on pace for over 1,000 yards RUSHING which is pretty incredible if you think about it. As far as his other merits, as an NFL QB he has a solid winning percentage as a starter. That alone speaks volumes for Vick whether you like him or not. At the end of the day he is a 150-200 yard passer with 50-80 yards rushing per game QB. Conclude from that what you want but he's top 5 as a fantasy QB which also speaks volumes about his play. He's actually one of the safest fantasy starts other than McNabb and Manning right now because even when he has a bad day he still produces decent fantasy points. I can't say that about pure passing QB's like E. Manning, Bulger, Brady, Delhomme, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 We are discussing his merits, or lack thereof, as an NFL QB. Even here, in just one 12 word sentence your ignorance & bias clearly shows through. Having listened to many a professional football analyst, NFL Scouts, GM's, Coaches etc talk about what Vick brings to the table & how difficult a QB matchup he is, you want us to disregard everything they have said & listen to you, some nobody on a fantasy football message board who doesn't even watch the games of the players you're trying to analyze & comment on But keep it up Blitz, You do crack me up and are one entertaining guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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