Shanny press conference

[Bill Swerski]

Why is the discussion suddenly about Reeves? What does that have to do with Shanahan? That's a great diversion but has nothing to do with the discussion on Shanahan we're having here right now.

 

You know exactly why I brought up Reeves. He's one of the all-time great NFL coaches, yet couldn't get over the hump with Elway and Sharpe. Shanahan hired outstanding coaches/coordinators (Gibbs, Kubiak) and got it done not once, but twice.

 

As far as HCs right now who I'd take over Shanahan besides the ones that you've mentioned, I'd take John Fox, Jeff Fischer, and probably John Gruden. Give those guys the players that Shanahan has right now & over the years since 1999, and they'd come up with more than 1 playoff W and getting wiped clean off the field, not even being slightly competitive, in the other 4 games. What good is getting to the dance if you forget to even get dressed to go once you've made it?

 

Gruden is definitely a good coach, but is really more of a QB-developer than anything. He couldn't get the Raiders over the hump and merely supplied competence to a TAM offense with an already-developed murderer's row on defense. Fisher is very good as well, but only had one really great season where they lost the SB. I'm beginning to think that John Fox is overrated. He's good, but his teams have been seriously under-performing recently... and he's never won a championship. And neither of those three win as consistently as Shanahan. Andy Reid would be a much better coach if he realized that establishing the run is important.

 

They've had equally or less talented teams and done better in the playoffs since 1999. They probably wouldn't have put all their eggs in Jake f'n Plummer's basket.

 

I'm sorry, did the Broncos have a shot at Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb back in the late '90s? Who would've been a better option at QB? Griese?

Edited November 14, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[Bronco Billy]

 

I'm sorry, did the Broncos have a shot at Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb back in the late '90s? Who would've been a better option at QB? Griese?

 

 

Tell you what. You want to make that argument? Shanahan took over as HC in 1995, and he's also held the reins of the draft since that time. Why don't you name me one - just one - quality QB in all that time that he's drafted & developed into a QB better than Plummer, much less Elway-quality. While you're at it, find me a starter-quality WR that he drafted & developed during that time period also. Let's make it easy & stick to O skill positions, since he's an O Mastermind.

 

I'll concede that there is no one better in the game at finding RBs that other teams bypass that can be effective runners in the NFL - though he's missed a few lately, and he's a genius at finding O-linemen late in drafts that fit his system also.

[FishFreak]

Shanny is clearly a great coach based on his past accomplishments and current success. I don't know how this thread turned into he's a sucky coach argument. BUT, he put his team in a very bad spot against the Raiders with his game plan and personnel decisions. That is simply bad judgement and poor coaching that deserves to be questioned and discussed.

[Bronco Billy]

You know exactly why I brought up Reeves. He's one of the all-time great NFL coaches, yet couldn't get over the hump with Elway and Sharpe. Shanahan hired outstanding coaches/coordinators (Gibbs, Kubiak) and got it done not once, but twice.

 

 

 

Yep, I know exactly why you brought up Reeves. It completely changes the discussion at hand that Shanahan is screwing this team up royally on offense with his idiotic decisions.

[Bill Swerski]

Tell you what. You want to make that argument? Shanahan took over as HC in 1995, and he's also held the reins of the draft since that time. Why don't you name me one - just one - quality QB in all that time that he's drafted & developed into a QB better than Plummer, much less Elway-quality. While you're at it, find me a starter-quality WR that he drafted & developed during that time period also. Let's make it easy & stick to O skill positions, since he's an O Mastermind.

 

How often has Denver been in a position to draft a high first-round pick at QB?

 

As far as WRs, you've got me there. However, he did make the trade for Javon Walker earlier this year. And there's been no need to replace Rod Smith.

[Bill Swerski]

Yep, I know exactly why you brought up Reeves. It completely changes the discussion at hand that Shanahan is screwing this team up royally on offense with his idiotic decisions.

 

 

Idiotic decisions like bringing in Courtney Brown and Gerrard Warren last year? Or the trading the injury-prone Clinton Portis for that CB who almost single-handedly beat the Pats in the playoffs this past January? Yeah, those decisions backfired big-time. :

Edited November 14, 2006 by Bill Swerski

[crispirons]

i'm not defending shanny, nor plummer or the bells. might part of the problem be that the oline isn't doing its job as well as it once did?

 

 

bb, they are 7-2. its not as easy to get wins in the nfl as we fantasy players like to think. we see a big pt spread and we think "our" team should dominate. thing is, the other team is p s s t off that they are being taken lightly(by the public, experts, vegas) and usually comes out with some heart/fight in them about being overlooked.

 

again, i'm not defending anyone, just saying how hard it is to compile wins in this league. shanny does that pretty regularly.

[Bronco Billy]

How often has Denver been in a position to draft a high first-round pick at QB?

 

As far as WRs, you've got me there. However, he did make the trade for Javon Walker earlier this year. And there's been no need to replace Rod Smith.

 

 

Are you implying that only high 1st round draft picks can be great QBs? I'd be very happy to refute that for you, if you'd like.

 

For every acquiring of a guy like Javon Walker, there's been 5 draft picks of guys like Marcus Nash.

 

I'm still waiting for that list of NFL starting caliber QBs & WRs...

[Azazello1313]

Why don't you name me one - just one - quality QB in all that time that he's drafted & developed into a QB better than Plummer, much less Elway-quality.

 

it's only been a couple QBs roll through here since elway left. griese and plummer. of those, you want me to find one better than plummer. ok, i concede

 

While you're at it, find me a starter-quality WR that he drafted & developed during that time period also.

 

rod smith

[Bronco Billy]

Yep, idiotic decisions like bringing in Courtney Brown and Gerrard Warren last year. That backfired big-time.

 

 

yourself.

 

Are you implying that the DEN D-line is an impact group in relation to other D-lines in the NFL?

 

Go ahead, make that argument, since you want to stray into defense.

[Bronco Billy]

 

rod smith

 

 

Rod Smith wasn't drafted.

 

Is this where I act like you and call you a sophomoric name?

[Azazello1313]

Rod Smith wasn't drafted.

 

 

so shanny doesn't get credit for rod smith because he signed him as an undrafted free agent instead of using a pick on him?

 

Is this where I act like you and call you a sophomoric name?

 

no this is where you continue to act like the kind of lightweight argumentative twit who fully deserves to be called sophomoric names.

[Bill Swerski]

yourself.

 

Are you implying that the DEN D-line is an impact group in relation to other D-lines in the NFL?

 

Go ahead, make that argument, since you want to stray into defense.

 

 

Yep, I'm laughing because I'm right. Shanahan has put together a pretty good Front 7. Not to mention trading away an injury-prone RB looking for a huge contract for the top CB in the league (you know, the guy who intercepted Brady in the endzone last year and almost single-handedly took DEN to the AFC Championship Game).

 

And, um, how many 1,000-yd rushers has Denver had since Shanahan took over? Even excluding true talent like Davis and Portis, he somehow made lower-tier talent like Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, and Rueben Droughns into Pro Bowl-caliber halfbacks.

 

But, you're right about Shanahan not developing a QB better than Griese or Plummer and not developing a WR (despite the fact that he's had Rod Smith the entire time and has had Shannon Sharpe for most of his time there). At least you have something to hang your hat on.

[Bronco Billy]

 

no this is where you continue to act like the kind of lightweight argumentative twit who fully deserves to be called sophomoric names.

 

 

Wow. That hurts coming from someone like you.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Now, could we get back to the topic at hand & have someone explain to me why Plummer & the offense sucks so badly when T Bell is the featured RB & performs much better when M Bell is the featured RB, if it doesn't have anything to do with T Bell & M Bell?

 

We seem to have digressed quite a bit...

[Bronco Billy]

 

And, um, how many 1,000-yd rushers has Denver had since Shanahan took over? Even excluding true talent like Davis and Portis, he somehow made lower-tier talent like Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, and Rueben Droughns into Pro Bowl-caliber halfbacks.

 

 

 

 

I believe I conceded that point a while back, as well as Shanahan's ability to pick very good O-linemen late in drafts. I don't suppose there's any chance you'll concede my point since you certainly haven't produced any evidence to the contrary?

 

BTW - you do know that Shanahan had nothing to do with acquiring Shannon Sharpe, don't you? Reeves picked him up in 1990.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Bronco Billy

[Azazello1313]

BTW - you do know that Shanahan had nothing to do with acquiring Shannon Sharpe, don't you? Reeves picked him up in 1990.

 

 

i think the point is, when you've got a guy like sharpe, the impetus on developing other stud receivers isn't quite to great.

 

yet shanny DID pick up rod smith off the scrapheap, and helped make him into a HOF candidate. he took ed mccaffrey, who was essentially a castoff journeyman shanny got as a cheap free agent from the niners, and saw him turn into a pro bowler. in my mind, rod smith and mccaffrey sorta make up for marcus nash and ashley lelie. except i guess they don't count because shanny didn't "draft" them.

[Bill Swerski]

I believe I conceded that point a while back, as well as Shanahan's ability to pick very good O-linemen late in drafts. I don't suppose there's any chance you'll concede my point since you certainly haven't produced any evidence to the contrary?

 

I already conceded your point about QBs and WRs. Like I said, there is SOME merit to your argument.

 

BTW - you do know that Shanahan had nothing to do with acquiring Shannon Sharpe, don't you? Reeves picked him up in 1990.

 

Shanahan wasn't involved in the re-acquisition of Sharpe after his short tenure with the Ravens?

 

And I suppose you'll concede the point that Shanahan has made some key moves (either re-signing current players or acquiring new ones) to improve Denver's D (Bailey, Lynch, Gold, Wilson, Warren, not to mention Pryce and Brown up until this season).

 

FWIW, I wasn't even arguing that Shanahan is a great GM (he's slightly above-average, IMO), but thanks for drawing me into that argument as well.

 

[Hat Trick]

 

I tend to agree with both sides of the arguement and can see both points of view as valid. In the NFL it's what have you done for me lately. If Shannarat had been getting to the playoffs every year and bombing in them like we are so accustomed to we'd be in outrage so I tend to agree with BB on that. However he is like Marty in mind....cept Marty doesn't have the rings....and he didn't have a Pro Bowl QB leading his team all the way either

[The Wolf]

Now, could we get back to the topic at hand & have someone explain to me why Plummer & the offense sucks so badly when T Bell is the featured RB & performs much better when M Bell is the featured RB, if it doesn't have anything to do with T Bell & M Bell?

 

We seem to have digressed quite a bit...

 

 

Well Bronco fans, looks like less than 17 points again this week versus San Diego...according to SportsLine:

 

Denver RB Tatum Bell still is the starter, but coach Mike Shanahan said Bell still is in pain from two turf toe injuries that have bothered him the past three weeks and that he shouldn't have played Bell as much in the Oakland game. After Sunday's game against Oakland, Bell simply said in the Denver Post, "I'm still hurting," after he gained 37 yards on 14 carries. Mike Bell, an undrafted rookie and star in training camp, was healthy, but not activated for the Raiders game because of a poor performance at Pittsburgh. "I have a lot of confidence in Mike Bell, but Mike Bell had a couple runs that he might have been able to get more yardage on in the Pittsburgh game," Shanahan said. "He is a young player and he will play a lot for us before the season is over."

 

I cannot figure this guy out. How could two turf toes be better now, with such a crucial game coming up?

Edited November 14, 2006 by The Wolf

[junebugz]

Tell you what. You want to make that argument? Shanahan took over as HC in 1995, and he's also held the reins of the draft since that time. Why don't you name me one - just one - quality QB in all that time that he's drafted & developed into a QB better than Plummer, much less Elway-quality. While you're at it, find me a starter-quality WR that he drafted & developed during that time period also. Let's make it easy & stick to O skill positions, since he's an O Mastermind.

 

I'll concede that there is no one better in the game at finding RBs that other teams bypass that can be effective runners in the NFL - though he's missed a few lately, and he's a genius at finding O-linemen late in drafts that fit his system also.

 

196th pick in Round 6 1995 - Terrell Davis

[Jimmy Neutron]

I am simply amazed that people would try to say Shanny is a bad coach. simply amazed.

 

We play fantasy football..he coaches real football.

 

 

Bingo.

[broncosn05]

7-2

[junebugz]

7-2