Randall Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com Should have passed on Eli Friday, November 17th, 2006 Tom Coughlin was talking yesterday about using the overwhelmed Bob Whitfield at left tackle again on Monday night in Jacksonville, a desperate move. He was complaining about his passing game in Sunday night's game and he was still trying to figure out what to do about all the injuries and his paper-thin roster. And every one of those problems might have been eliminated if Ernie Accorsi hadn't made the Eli Manning trade back in April 2004 that now appears to be a terrible deal for the Giants. It is looking like a long-term back-breaker, in what is supposed to be the Giants' breakthrough season, Accorsi's farewell tour. It was the biggest trade in Accorsi's career, and quite possibly his worst. Sometimes it takes more than a few seasons to figure out these things, and maybe the final judgment call doesn't come for another five years. But right now, midway through Season 3 of the Manning era at the Meadowlands, this was not just a bad idea by Accorsi. It appears to be fatal. Eli Manning is not a bad quarterback. He is good enough, perhaps, to win a title with the right cast. But he is not Ben Roethlisberger, already a champ, and now it turns out he may not be Philip Rivers, either. The complex trade has transformed the Chargers into an elite team and left the Giants a cut or two below. Again, the Giants are solid enough. They have won five of their last six games and they probably will win their division when all is said and done. Accorsi deserves credit for that, too. But they could have been much better than this, much deeper, if the general manager hadn't followed his gut and worried so much that he was missing out on the next John Elway. You have to remember that back in the spring of 2004, Accorsi was one of the few executives who believed Eli Manning was significantly better than both Roethlisberger and Rivers. Roethlisberger was big and tough. He was the guy Accorsi would have taken if the Giants didn't get Manning. Rivers had impressed everyone but Accorsi in private workouts and interviews. Most GMs and scouts grouped the trio of passers at around the same talent level. Not Accorsi, who was utterly sold on Manning. He fell in love with the name, with the pedigree, and Accorsi gave up the deed to Xanadu to get him. The Chargers ended up with Rivers. They also received the Giants' third-round pick in 2004, plus their first- and fifth-round picks in 2005. Now you look at how those picks turned out, or how they might have gone, and it is clear the Giants gave up a tremendous amount of front-end talent for Manning, and that it hasn't been worth it yet. The Chargers got three starters for Manning - Rivers, a real star this season, who has a 66.4% completion rate and a 100.4 quarterback rating (Manning's numbers are 59.4% and an 81 rating); Shawne Merriman, an outside linebacker with 8.5 sacks this season; and Nick Hardwick, a sturdy center. San Diego didn't keep the fifth-round pick. St. Louis ended up with that choice, and took a bust, tight end Jerome Collins. But if the Giants had retained that pick, they might have selected Trent Cole, a starting defensive end in Philadelphia, who went two spots later. And there you have the kind of depth and talent that might have compensated for injuries all over the field, on the offensive and defensive lines and at linebacker. You also have Rivers, who is a year younger than Manning and now looking like the player with the more accurate arm. Or you have Roethlisberger, also a year younger, who already has won a Super Bowl in Pittsburgh. Instead, the Giants have a bunch of wrecked tendons, emergency filler material and a quarterback who is still trying to find his way on many weekends, who had three turnovers against the Bears. "You've got to find ways to hit the open guy, be smart with the ball," Manning was saying again yesterday. Here we are in Week 11, and you still have your choice around the Giants. You can jump on the bandwagon or board the second-guess express. It is Accorsi's last season, he says, and he will win or go down with that one famous quarterback trade. Right now, the deal looks all wrong. Not because of Manning, but because of what the Giants might have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Eli, as the above article mentions, is perhaps good enough to win with the right supporting cast, but after watching him as much as possible, I just don't think he's ever going to be one of the elite type QB's. Very overrated & due in a large part to his lineage & media hype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Eli, as the above article mentions, is perhaps good enough to win with the right supporting cast, but after watching him as much as possible, I just don't think he's ever going to be one of the elite type QB's. Very overrated & due in a large part to his lineage & media hype. Kinda like Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Kinda like Vick. Touche! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) I'm sorry, but haven't the Giants done pretty damn well so far this year against an absolutely brutal schedule? I also have not seen Roethlisberger do anything spectacular, but rather manage a team that was loaded at all other positions last year, and I still haven't seen Rivers beat a team with a winning record. After seeing the difference between E Manning & Roethlisberger this year, this guy still prefers Roethlisberger? :stupid: How could anyone possibly predict the incredible spate of injuries on the Giants' roster so far this year, yet they're still leading their division. Someone looks like they have a serious ax to grind, and are using all sorts of dubious data to do so. Edited November 17, 2006 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 To me, this article sounds like a lame second guess by someone who's never had to make a high profile decision in his life. Ben Roethilsberger is some sort of great quarterback? He might be good someday, but the jury is still clearly out on that one. The guy says Eli might be able to win a championship with the right supporting cast. Isn't that what Roethlisberger did? The Chargers are an elite team? Did I miss something? Did they win something while I was out? Did this guy write an article back before Eli was drafted predicting a slew of Giants injuries in 2006? If so, how come he didn't cite that article? I'm not a Giants fan or an Eli Manning fan at all. But that article just seems like some schlock by a guy who had to meet a deadline and couldn't think of anything to write about. Pretty weak IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 To me, this article sounds like a lame second guess by someone who's never had to make a high profile decision in his life. Ben Roethilsberger is some sort of great quarterback? He might be good someday, but the jury is still clearly out on that one. The guy says Eli might be able to win a championship with the right supporting cast. Isn't that what Roethlisberger did? The Chargers are an elite team? Did I miss something? Did they win something while I was out? Did this guy write an article back before Eli was drafted predicting a slew of Giants injuries in 2006? If so, how come he didn't cite that article? I'm not a Giants fan or an Eli Manning fan at all. But that article just seems like some schlock by a guy who had to meet a deadline and couldn't think of anything to write about. Pretty weak IMO. +1 The only part of that article I agree with is "Sometimes it takes more than a few seasons to figure out these things, and maybe the final judgment call doesn't come for another five years" or 10 years IMO Even with Ben's superbowl didnt every single person in this forum have Eli ranked above both Ben and Rivers on their draft sheets (excpet for maybe some blind homers). Give me a break, the Giants are still winning games their just doing it in a different manner than last season. This article is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 For those that are just tuning in, welcome to "Mass Media in New York". This is why NY is one of the toughest places to play sports professionally. When they love you, you're the toast of the town, but when they even sniff trouble, you're head will be on a pike at the front gate faster than Mario Cuomo kicking the Don out the back door. If you think this is bad, wait to see what happens if Eli loses another game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I'm sorry, but haven't the Giants done pretty damn well so far this year against an absolutely brutal schedule? I also have not seen Roethlisberger do anything spectacular, but rather manage a team that was loaded at all other positions last year, and I still haven't seen Rivers beat a team with a winning record. After seeing the difference between E Manning & Roethlisberger this year, this guy still prefers Roethlisberger? :stupid: How could anyone possibly predict the incredible spate of injuries on the Giants' roster so far this year, yet they're still leading their division. Someone looks like they have a serious ax to grind, and are using all sorts of dubious data to do so. Yes, how could you prefer Roethlisberger over Eli. Roethlisberger has a career passer rating of 91.9, compared to Eli's 73.5. Even this year, where Roethlisberger has been absolutely awful at times, his QB rating is just below Eli's, and will be higher by year's end, imho. If you haven't noticed, Roethlisberger has gotten it togehter pretty well in 3 of the last 4 games. No one wants to give Ben credit, but, in the 3 playoff games, he did much more than 'manage' that team. He put them on his back and got the team out to big leads. Now, the Super Bowl was another story..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 One of the worst articles I have ever read. that guy has no biz writing about football as he obviously knows nothing about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Yes, how could you prefer Roethlisberger over Eli. Roethlisberger has a career passer rating of 91.9, compared to Eli's 73.5. Even this year, where Roethlisberger has been absolutely awful at times, his QB rating is just below Eli's, and will be higher by year's end, imho. If you haven't noticed, Roethlisberger has gotten it togehter pretty well in 3 of the last 4 games. No one wants to give Ben credit, but, in the 3 playoff games, he did much more than 'manage' that team. He put them on his back and got the team out to big leads. Now, the Super Bowl was another story..... that's some pretty good stink bait....but I aint biting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Yes, how could you prefer Roethlisberger over Eli. Roethlisberger has a career passer rating of 91.9, compared to Eli's 73.5. Even this year, where Roethlisberger has been absolutely awful at times, his QB rating is just below Eli's, and will be higher by year's end, imho. If you haven't noticed, Roethlisberger has gotten it togehter pretty well in 3 of the last 4 games. No one wants to give Ben credit, but, in the 3 playoff games, he did much more than 'manage' that team. He put them on his back and got the team out to big leads. Now, the Super Bowl was another story..... Why do I have the feeling that if Manning had ended up with PIT & Roethlisberger was drafted by the Giants that you'd be here right now pimping Manning & running over Roethlisberger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Why do I have the feeling that if Manning had ended up with PIT & Roethlisberger was drafted by the Giants that you'd be here right now pimping Manning & running over Roethlisberger? Because it is a fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) Why do I have the feeling that if Manning had ended up with PIT & Roethlisberger was drafted by the Giants that you'd be here right now pimping Manning & running over Roethlisberger? Because it is a fact None of us have any idea what would have happened if Eli went to the Steelers & Roethlisberger was with the Giants. All we know is what has happened. I really don't like to play the "IF" game, because know one knows what would happen, so, it is foolish. By the way, I'm not running over anyone. I like Eli and think he will become a great QB. You made a statement insinuating that someone would be out of their mind to want Ben over Eli, so, I showed you their career QB Ratings......nothing more, nothing less Edited November 17, 2006 by Menudo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 You made a statement insinuating that someone would be out of their mind to want Ben over Eli, so, I showed you their career QB Ratings......nothing more, nothing less Posted this because before the draft many thought Reoth was the best, others Eli and some Rivers. They may have been fairly equal and quality determined by what team and system they went to. Some thought Roethlisberger below par because he went to Miami of Ohio. This debate will go on awhile. And I think Eli will be a good QB, maybe even great. The NY media is really jumping the gun here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 This debate will go on awhile. And I think Eli will be a good QB, maybe even great. The NY media is really jumping the gun here. If nothing else, this part is true. I love Ben as a Pitt homer. If I had my choice between the three today I would still have Ben. However, if I had my choice on draft day I would have went Manning, Ben, Rivers. Hindsight is 20/20 and even with 20/20 hindsight, it still isn't very clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 If nothing else, this part is true. I love Ben as a Pitt homer. If I had my choice between the three today I would still have Ben. However, if I had my choice on draft day I would have went Manning, Ben, Rivers. Hindsight is 20/20 and even with 20/20 hindsight, it still isn't very clear. Yep, I wanted Rivers on draft day. Those that remember or feel like searching can find the proof right here on the Huddle. That is who I wanted from day 1, but, was thrilled when Ben dropped to our pick. Rivers had to wait two years, but, wow, has he ever been impressive. I see great things in his future. Actually, when all is said and done, I think you will be looking at 3 QB's who had VERY successful NFL careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menudo Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 If I had my choice between the three today I would still have Ben. Here he goes again.....Skippy and his blind homerism..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 ben= C + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Score 1 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 The NY media is really jumping the gun here. Actually, after last nights fiasco, it looks like they had their crystal ball working perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdog Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 no one was criticizing the deal for the Giants at the time. Everyone just saw the name "Manning". Its fine to reflect on a deal like this but you can't be too critical. who knew we'd get Merriman in SD with the Giants' pick the next year? i'm overjoyed with Rivers but criticizing Accorsi makes little sense to me. its like everyone going off on Houston for passing on Reggie Bush. maybe Williams at #1wasn't the best choice but Bush has been less than spectacular for New Orleans and Houston probably saved quite a bit of money under the cap by not drafting Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 (edited) no one was criticizing the deal for the Giants at the time. Everyone just saw the name "Manning". Its fine to reflect on a deal like this but you can't be too critical. who knew we'd get Merriman in SD with the Giants' pick the next year? i'm overjoyed with Rivers but criticizing Accorsi makes little sense to me. its like everyone going off on Houston for passing on Reggie Bush. maybe Williams at #1wasn't the best choice but Bush has been less than spectacular for New Orleans and Houston probably saved quite a bit of money under the cap by not drafting Bush. I agree with this...I still think Ferguson was the choice at that pick..but Mario Williams is really coming along although he is a little hurt now..he is starting to pay dividends and I expect him to be a pro bowler next year. Edited November 21, 2006 by Doc Holliday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Rivers is still the best of the three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelers4Life Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Yep, I wanted Rivers on draft day. Those that remember or feel like searching can find the proof right here on the Huddle. That is who I wanted from day 1, but, was thrilled when Ben dropped to our pick. Rivers had to wait two years, but, wow, has he ever been impressive. I see great things in his future. Actually, when all is said and done, I think you will be looking at 3 QB's who had VERY successful NFL careers. I felt the same way on draft day. I preferred Rivers to Ben, and I preferred Ben to Eli. After watching him in college, I didn't understand the fuss over Eli, really. Ben was considered more of a project and he was supposed to learn behind Maddox for a year, which is why his early success was so shocking. Eli and Rivers were considered more NFL-ready. Rivers has looked great so far, no doubt about it. Part of me wonders why people don't pick at him like they do/did Ben because he has the best RB in the game behind him and a great defense, but hey, that's for another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Rivers has looked great so far, no doubt about it. Part of me wonders why people don't pick at him like they do/did Ben because he has the best RB in the game behind him and a great defense, but hey, that's for another day. Because he did not get the NFL start that Ben did. He did not set records like Ben did. He does not have a Menudo like Ben does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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