Azazello1313 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 no link, no inside source. just my own hunch. the guy has just been plain BAD this year. even the games where he's looked OK, it's basically just been chunking the ball up where javon walker can get it and make plays. the best you can expect from him is to not LOSE the game...and that just puts the team at a severe handicap when facing down an opposing powerhouse offense. jake, to me, has regressed significantly from last year and the year before. probably because the league has had a chance to figure out the tricks the broncos were using to get him outside the pocket consistently, where he actually excels as a passer. but i do think thanksgiving night in KC could be the game that decides whether he rides it out the rest of the year, or they go ahead and make the change to cutler down the stretch. i haven't honestly felt they would make this move all season long (though i sorta wished they would), but i think the internal organizational frustration with jake may have grown to the point where it is reaching critical mass. i could easily be wrong, but i think if the broncos lose in KC and jake plays poorly, he loses the starting job, once and for all. it wouldn't be a terrible time to make the switch either, with the long week after a thursday game leading up to a home game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolv Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 it wouldn't be a terrible time to make the switch either, with the long week after a thursday game leading up to a home game. While I agree Plummer needs to take a seat, I seriously doubt a change will be made while in the midst of a division/wild card chase. Its worked for the Cowboys, but this is an entirely different situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Peter King wrote the same thing this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstCoachingEver Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I only see Plummer losing his job in the following circumstances: i) Plummer loses next two games straight AND ii) Both KC and SD firmly plant themselves ahead of DEN in the playoff hunt or i) Week 16 and/or Week 17 when/if DEN gets eliminated from playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 2 words: Shanahan's ego If Shanahan had to bench Plummer because of his poor play, it would mean he'd have to admit that he screwed up by taking Plummer to captain his ship in the first place. That would also mean he'd have to admit that he's had no clue about picking an appropriately talented NFL QB in 8 years after what happened with Griese followed by what happened with Plummer. Shanahan has shown repeatedly that his ego drives his decisions ahead of what is solid evidence that he is making a mistake. This year's Bell/Bell fiasco is the latest of this evidence. I don't see him being capable of swallowing his pride, admitting that he's been wrong for 3+ years with Plummer, and benching him in favor of Cutler. I hope that I'm wrong, but I'm afraid that I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 With a stretch of games of @KC, SEA and @SD, I would be very surprised to see DEN throw a rookie QB in there. Romo had been around for three years, not a couple of months. I agree Plummer is killing them, but they have made their own bed with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeltown Dre Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I agree w/ the others - now is not the time. I also will add that when capping this game, I looked at the SD secondary as being a major liability, and was on the fence as to who to take. However, after breaking things down and realizing that Plummer would have to be the one to exploit that secondary, I took my chances w/ SD +2.5. I'd rather have my money in the hands of LT rather than Plummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 With a stretch of games of @KC, SEA and @SD, I would be very surprised to see DEN throw a rookie QB in there. well i don't think there's any chance we see cutler thursday @KC. so cutler would be opening home against seattle, then @SD. that game in SD will be tough, but we KNOW plummer ain't going in there and coming out with a W. i don't think the schedule necessarily prevents them from making a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 With a stretch of games of @KC, SEA and @SD, I would be very surprised to see DEN throw a rookie QB in there. Romo had been around for three years, not a couple of months. I agree Plummer is killing them, but they have made their own bed with him. They could put Cutler in on passing downs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 2 words: Shanahan's ego If Shanahan had to bench Plummer because of his poor play, it would mean he'd have to admit that he screwed up by taking Plummer to captain his ship in the first place. That would also mean he'd have to admit that he's had no clue about picking an appropriately talented NFL QB in 8 years after what happened with Griese followed by what happened with Plummer. Shanahan has shown repeatedly that his ego drives his decisions ahead of what is solid evidence that he is making a mistake. This year's Bell/Bell fiasco is the latest of this evidence. I don't see him being capable of swallowing his pride, admitting that he's been wrong for 3+ years with Plummer, and benching him in favor of Cutler. I hope that I'm wrong, but I'm afraid that I'm not. Although your probably right, when considering the scenario of events, I don't blame Shanny on starting Griese over Brister, then signing him to big money after he had a great year. Griese, of course, then turned into the great pumpkin and stunk up the place which is why they got Plummer. No doubt Plummer has regressed, but he was better than Griese and one of the better free agents available. The Bell/Bell fiasco on the other hand is a compete joke. I hope your wrong also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 The Bell/Bell fiasco on the other hand is a compete joke. I hope your wrong also. I would love to be wrong. I'd eat my words with great enthusiasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 The Broncos lost the game yesterday because they couldn't stop SD. Their 'vaunted defense' has put up 2 real stinkers against good offensive clubs. 35 points to the Chargers will kill you most of the time. And the Chargers managed to do it with some 'grind out the yards' type drives and with some 'carve out yards in big chunks' drives, not to mention the 'Throw it to LT at the 50 and see what happens' drive. Plummer could obviously be playing better, but I don't think you can hang this loss solely on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 What happened to the Plummer bootleg / rush? Last season he drove me nuts, rushing for TDs with that rollout time after time as I owned Rod Smith and Mike Anderson in different leagues, but it was extremely effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 The Broncos lost the game yesterday because they couldn't stop SD. Their 'vaunted defense' has put up 2 real stinkers against good offensive clubs. 35 points to the Chargers will kill you most of the time. And the Chargers managed to do it with some 'grind out the yards' type drives and with some 'carve out yards in big chunks' drives, not to mention the 'Throw it to LT at the 50 and see what happens' drive. Plummer could obviously be playing better, but I don't think you can hang this loss solely on him. I'd agree with that, but I also think the two guys who are easily the best at their respective positions in the league - by a very wide margin - are responsible for that. Manning & LT have carved up a lot of other teams, and right now LT is on a streak that has never been seen in the history of the NFL. That's an acheivement of epic proportions. Against normal every day NFL studs or lesser players, DEN's D is very solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 What happened to the Plummer bootleg / rush? Last season he drove me nuts, rushing for TDs with that rollout time after time as I owned Rod Smith and Mike Anderson in different leagues, but it was extremely effective. Did you see how wide SD's DE/OLB played? SD played from the outside-in on the edges to contain Plummer's rollout. It's part of the reason why the runs up the middle were so successful against a normally very stout SD run D. It's also another reason why DEN should have kept pounding runs between the tackles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Did you see how wide SD's DE/OLB played? SD played from the outside-in on the edges to contain Plummer's rollout. It's part of the reason why the runs up the middle were so successful against a normally very stout SD run D. It's also another reason why DEN should have kept pounding runs between the tackles. Sure, but I haven't seen him roll out all season. Has everyone figured out how to keep him in the pocket or has something changed on the Denver side of the ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Sure, but I haven't seen him roll out all season. Has everyone figured out how to keep him in the pocket or has something changed on the Denver side of the ball? little bit of both, IMO. partly it's the league figuring out that if you force plummer to beat you from the pocket, he won't. partly i think the change from kubiak to heimerdinger has had an effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I'd agree with that, but I also think the two guys who are easily the best at their respective positions in the league - by a very wide margin - are responsible for that. Manning & LT have carved up a lot of other teams, and right now LT is on a streak that has never been seen in the history of the NFL. That's an acheivement of epic proportions. Against normal every day NFL studs or lesser players, DEN's D is very solid. I'm not disagreeing, all I am saying is that it's their job to stop the other team and they didn't do it here or against the Colts. It's fair to say that the Broncos had a chance to tie the game and Plummer screwed up at a crucial moment. I think that it's also fair to say that the Broncos offense put the team in a good position and the defense let the momentum shift back to the Chargers favor. They had the Chargers against the wall at 24-7, and choked it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 little bit of both, IMO. partly it's the league figuring out that if you force plummer to beat you from the pocket, he won't. partly i think the change from kubiak to heimerdinger has had an effect. Totally agree. The loss of Kubiak was waved off by a lot of people in the offseason, but I think it's a hugh part of the offensive struggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) 2 words: Shanahan's ego If Shanahan had to bench Plummer because of his poor play, it would mean he'd have to admit that he screwed up by taking Plummer to captain his ship in the first place. That would also mean he'd have to admit that he's had no clue about picking an appropriately talented NFL QB in 8 years after what happened with Griese followed by what happened with Plummer. Shanahan has shown repeatedly that his ego drives his decisions ahead of what is solid evidence that he is making a mistake. This year's Bell/Bell fiasco is the latest of this evidence. I don't see him being capable of swallowing his pride, admitting that he's been wrong for 3+ years with Plummer, and benching him in favor of Cutler. I hope that I'm wrong, but I'm afraid that I'm not. Hasn't he already done this, though? From all that I've read, the decision to draft Cutler was essentially Shanahan's. Putting in Cutler now would only confirm what we learned back in April - Mike doesn't think that Plummer is the guy. Edited November 20, 2006 by Fatman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Hasn't he already done this, though? From all that I've read, the decision to draft Cutler was essentially Shanahan's. Putting in Cutler now would only confirm what we learned back in April - Mike doesn't think that Plummer is the guy. exactly. i think the whole "shanny's ego" thing is really just BB's ego being bruised after getting his bells crossed in the preseason. drafting cutler shows shanahan is NOT wed to plummer for his own ego...if plummer plays the year out it's because they figure plummer gives them the best chance to win right now. if they switch, it's because they've finally decided plummer does NOT give them the best chance to win right now. and i just think it goes one way or the other depending on the result of the KC game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 good call, az Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 good call, az My advice to you would be to act like you've been right before. The only person who needs to bump his own correct predictions is the one doesn't get many right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 BTW, I'm very thankfully eating my words. Better late than never, Shanny. I obviously didn't think you'd be man enough to pull Plummer this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 My advice to you would be to act like you've been right before. The only person who needs to bump his own correct predictions is the one doesn't get many right. as the master of bad predictions, i guess i ought to heed your advice here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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