Standings question

[Pirate lookin' at 40]

As comissioner of a 24 team league, I am fixing to have a difficult issue on my hands. In one division, I need to decide who is going to win.

 

One team is going to have a 9-3 record, while the other is going to have a 8-2-2 record.

 

The second team will have only lost 2 games as opposed to 3 for the other. But, the first team will have won 9 games compared to 8 for the second team.

 

The odds of either team losing this coming week (which is the final week of the regular season since we have 4 weeks of playoffs) is slim.

 

So, are these teams basically tied, meaning I go to the first tiebreaker, which is points?

 

Or does one team having more wins or less losses take precidence over the other?

[PantherDave]

The 8-2-2 team has the better record

 

Why? Two ties % point wise is equal to 1 win % wise, so he has basically 9 wins with only 2 loses opposed to 3 for other said team. I'd handle it and say there tied with 9 wins and let the head to head match-up decide it. If they played twice and split, then let overall points decide it.

[rocknrobn26]

Ties suck! Go to decimal scoring next year! But I digress.....

In answer to your question:

I'm old enough to remember when the NFL had ties. And back then (IMS) it was WINNING RECORD! If you gave a half win for a tie then #2 wins, but if it ain't in your rules "Que sera, sera"! JMHO!

[jaxfactor]

I know this isn't hockey, but the NHL decides playoff seedings by most wins. If you don't have a set rule for this, that can be difficult. I'd go with what PD said and go with a tiebreaker. Next season have a vote on this very scenario. Whether to go with most wins as a tiebreaker.

[rocknrobn26]

The 8-2-2 team has the better record

 

Why? Two ties % point wise is equal to 1 win % wise, so he has basically 9 wins with only 2 loses opposed to 3 for other said team. I'd handle it and say there tied with 9 wins and let the head to head match-up decide it. If they played twice and split, then let overall points decide it.

 

 

Sorry PD, where is that written in stone?

 

 

I know this isn't hockey, but the NHL decides playoff seedings by most wins. If you don't have a set rule for this, that can be difficult. I'd go with what PD said and go with a tiebreaker. Next season have a vote on this very scenario. Whether to go with most wins as a tiebreaker.

 

 

Sorry, I disagree! A win is a Win and a tie is a tie, period! It is worth a tie, NOT a half a win!

FWIW from HAG:

"With regular season games, ties are ties. With decimal scoring this is very rare."

 

Ties are Ties! Final Answer!

It is arguable, but w/o a rule to defend it, I say #1 wins.

Edited November 22, 2006 by rocknrobn26

[MrTed46]

Sorry PD, where is that written in stone?

Sorry, I disagree! A win is a Win and a tie is a tie, period! It is worth a tie, NOT a half a win!

FWIW from HAG:

"With regular season games, ties are ties. With decimal scoring this is very rare."

 

Ties are Ties! Final Answer!

It is arguable, but w/o a rule to defend it, I say #1 wins.

 

 

Thats a tough situation. I would go with most wins because he beat more people than the other guy.

[Big John]

A tie is 1/2 win and 1/2 loss. If a team has 2 ties, it is to be treated as 1 win and 1 loss, so the 8-2-2 team has the equalvalent record as the 9-3-0 team.

 

So it is the same winning percentage, so you need to go to the tiebreaker you mentioned of total points.

[Big John]

Ties suck! Go to decimal scoring next year! But I digress.....

In answer to your question:

I'm old enough to remember when the NFL had ties. And back then (IMS) it was WINNING RECORD! If you gave a half win for a tie then #2 wins, but if it ain't in your rules "Que sera, sera"! JMHO!

 

The NFL changed the tie policy to it being 1/2 win and 1/2 loss in 1972. Then it instituted overtime in 1974.

[Grits and Shins]

A tie is 1/2 win and 1/2 loss. If a team has 2 ties, it is to be treated as 1 win and 1 loss, so the 8-2-2 team has the equalvalent record as the 9-3-0 team.

 

So it is the same winning percentage, so you need to go to the tiebreaker you mentioned of total points.

 

 

Yup.

 

A tie is no more a win than it is a loss. To give a team 1/2 credits for the ties but not penalize then 1/2 for those same ties is ludicrous.

[STL Fan]

I understand the math behind the alleged tie here, but in my book wins are king!

[Slugs]

Did they go head to head against each other? I would give it to the winner of that.

[rocknrobn26]

We agree to disagree. Sorry, I still say 1 win is worth more than 2 ties! It's called a "winning record", not a "winning/tie" record! JMHO!

More importantly.....If YOUR rules don't state a tie is worth half a win, you CANNOT invoke that now! Rules, dammit......RULES!!!

Change the rules next year.

 

And John,

 

I said:

"And back then (IMS) it was WINNING RECORD!" So I guess that is prior to 1972! Showing my age again!

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

We agree to disagree. Sorry, I still say 1 win is worth more than 2 ties! It's called a "winning record", not a "winning/tie" record! JMHO!

More importantly.....If YOUR rules don't state a tie is worth half a win, you CANNOT invoke that now! Rules, dammit......RULES!!!

Change the rules next year.

 

And John,

 

I said:

"And back then (IMS) it was WINNING RECORD!" So I guess that is prior to 1972! Showing my age again!

 

 

You're certainly entitled to disagree. However, if you model your rules after thr NFL (like most fantasy leagues attempt to) then you're wrong.

 

From the nfl.com page:

 

March 20, 2002) -- With the NFL realigning into eight four-team divisions to accommodate the arrival of the Houston Texans, the league adopted new tiebreaking rules.

 

 

Common opponents will now be the third tiebreaker within a division after head-to-head games and division record because each of the four teams will have 14 common games in the 16-game schedule. The owners also moved the strength-of-victory tiebreaker ahead of the strength-of-schedule tiebreaker.

 

The six postseason participants from each conference will now be seeded as follows:

1. The division champion with the best record.

2. The division champion with the second-best record.

3. The division champion with the third-best record.

4. The division champion with the fourth-best record.

5. The Wild Card club with the best record.

6. The Wild Card club with the second-best record.

 

The following procedures will be used to break standings ties for postseason playoffs and to determine regular-season schedules.

NOTE: Tie games count as one-half win and one-half loss for both clubs.

 

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakers

 

9-2-2 and 8-3 are as much tied as 8-3 & 8-3. Must go to next tie breaker unless there is something different in the rules.

[BearcatTom]

We follow NFL rules, which use 1) Overall Winning Percentage, 2) Head to Head, 3) Division Winning Percentage, and then a bunch of other stuff.

 

In Winning Percentage, ties are a half a point, wins 1 pt, loses = 0.

[cdrudge]

What do your league rules say? The fact that you are asking here probably means that you don't have a rule/policy for this situation. While I would probably side on the 1/2 win-1/2 loss scoring, since it wasn't stated things would be scored that way, I don't think that you can use it now.

 

No matter what happens, someone is probably going to feel screwed. Splitting may be the best way out, but if you do that there is the chance that both sides will still feel like they lost.

[The Wolf]

Did they go head to head against each other? I would give it to the winner of that.

 

 

Agree with all...teams are essentially tied. Explain that the NFL regards a tie as .5 of a win and .5 of a loss. That makes both 9-3. Next setp, did they go head to head? Decide it this way.

 

And change your rules for next year...don't put yourself in this position any longer bro.

[Bring Back Pat!!!]

We follow NFL rules, which use 1) Overall Winning Percentage, 2) Head to Head, 3) Division Winning Percentage, and then a bunch of other stuff.

 

In Winning Percentage, ties are a half a point, wins 1 pt, loses = 0.

 

 

 

You do not use NFL rules, because NFL says that ties are 1/2 win and 1/2 loss.

[Pirate lookin' at 40]

Thanks guys.

 

I went to the FAQ section of MFL and this is what is said:

 

"This is a complete tie using simply the Overall Winning % as your sort criteria. All standings calculations always get changed to a percentage. Since a tie is equal to ½ of a win, the 7-2-2 record is essential 8-2. This is the same calculations as used in box scores in newpapers throughout the country"

 

So, I guess we have a legitimate tie. They did go head to head, but overall points is our first tiebreaker.

[The Wolf]

Thanks guys.

 

I went to the FAQ section of MFL and this is what is said:

 

"This is a complete tie using simply the Overall Winning % as your sort criteria. All standings calculations always get changed to a percentage. Since a tie is equal to ½ of a win, the 7-2-2 record is essential 8-2. This is the same calculations as used in box scores in newpapers throughout the country"

 

So, I guess we have a legitimate tie. They did go head to head, but overall points is our first tiebreaker.

 

 

There you have it. Problem solved. Now get this stuff in writing so no worries moving forward.

[PantherDave]

Still blows, I'm a head to head school fella here-say both teams are 9-3, one beat the other but the loser has more overall points-BS, worst rule ever!! It should be record/head to head/...and then overall points.

 

Hey, I beat you straight up ala head to head, but you have more overall points and you get a bye 1st round??? Sorry, total crap.