Bronco Billy Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Liked what he said about the only thing that matters is the "W" May sound like BS but that will silence most fans except those who play FF. It does sound like BS, and only because it is, and not just to FF owners. If Plummer is playing so poorly in comparison to his peers, which is obvious to anyone who has even a modicum of sense regarding statistics, it means the team is winning despite him, not because of him. Plummer is the anchor on what could otherwise be a favorite to win the SB this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 It does sound like BS, and only because it is, and not just to FF owners. If Plummer is playing so poorly in comparison to his peers, which is obvious to anyone who has even a modicum of sense regarding statistics, it means the team is winning despite him, not because of him. Plummer is the anchor on what could otherwise be a favorite to win the SB this year. Not defending playing Plummer just thought his comment was right on the money. Winning is the best way to silence the critics. You can't deny that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Not defending playing Plummer just thought his comment was right on the money. Winning is the best way to silence the critics. You can't deny that. I can recall Billy Kilmer doing fairly well and they had Sonny on that team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) Not defending playing Plummer just thought his comment was right on the money. Winning is the best way to silence the critics. You can't deny that. True but I'd liken the Broncos to Denver as the Yankees are here in New York. It does not matter how many seasons you go 12-4 or 98-64 if you do not win the championship. By the looks of the way the team is playing, that team could contend if they can settle on one runner (MikeBellMikeBellMikeBell...) and if Plummer can play much, much better. Edited November 22, 2006 by The Wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Not defending playing Plummer just thought his comment was right on the money. Winning is the best way to silence the critics. You can't deny that. I can when I look at DEN's playoff record under Plummer, or the fact that DEN has lost at home vs IND & SD recently and now has a short week to play in KC, where they traditionally oh poopy the bed and then go to 2 weeks afterwards to SD, when SD's D will be significantly better with Merriman back. If DEN doesn't come up with at least 1 major upset in the next 3 weeks at either KC or SD, they're looking squarely at a WC birth at best, a trip back east in the 1st round, and yet another early playoff exit. Woo-hoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Jake needs to shut the F up and play. How ironic that somebody who adamantly touts himself as "not an idiot" acts like one in an attempt to prove his point. I get the impression that the average fan in Denver thinks that QBs like Elway grow on trees. They need to take a "reality check" vacation in Chicago, where the best QBs they've had over the past decade are Grossman and Erik Kramer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Jake needs to shut the F up and play. How ironic that somebody who adamantly touts himself as "not an idiot" acts like one in an attempt to prove his point. I get the impression that the average fan in Denver thinks that QBs like Elway grow on trees. They need to take a "reality check" vacation in Chicago, where the best QBs they've had over the past decade are Grossman and Erik Kramer. I don't know if any team has suffered more at QB than CHI over the history of the NFL. I don't think anyone here is DEN is expecting Plummer to be Elway. We sure as hell aren't expecting our starting QB to be outplayed by the likes of Seneca Wallace, Brad Johnson, Mark Brunell, Jon Kitna, and their ilk either - especially with the Mastermind coaching them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 True but I'd liken the Broncos to Denver as the Yankees are here in New York. It does not matter how many seasons you go 12-4 or 98-64 if you do not win the championship. By the looks of the way the team is playing, that team could contend if they can settle on one runner (MikeBellMikeBellMikeBell...) and if Plummer can play much, much better. Got to figure both the Bronco and Yankee fans might be spoiled then. I'm guessing Denver's coach has tossed around the idea of making a change at QB as well. Would think if they start "not winning" it will make his decision a bit harder. Can't imagine any coach of his tenure wanting to switch to a rookie QB while they are still in contention. Not sure if you have ever coached but if you have then you might agree that most coaches would rather deal with the known vs. the unknown and plan their game strategy accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Not sure if you have ever coached but if you have then you might agree that most coaches would rather deal with the known vs. the unknown and plan their game strategy accordingly. I have coached - obviously not at the NFL level - and I can state emphatically that I would rather try an unknown than suffer with starting a player who is underacheiving in epic proportions to the detriment of the team just because he is "annointed" in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I have coached - obviously not at the NFL level - and I can state emphatically that I would rather try an unknown than suffer with starting a player who is underacheiving in epic proportions to the detriment of the team just because he is "annointed" in some way. This is where we disagree. I think good coaches believe (right or wrong) that they can out coach the other guy and win the game if they can keep the variables to a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junebugz Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I get the impression that the average fan in Denver thinks that QBs like Elway grow on trees. They need to take a "reality check" vacation in Chicago, where the best QBs they've had over the past decade are Grossman and Erik Kramer. agreed. i think det and cle would be in the running also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) I don't know if any team has suffered more at QB than CHI over the history of the NFL. I don't think anyone here is DEN is expecting Plummer to be Elway. We sure as hell aren't expecting our starting QB to be outplayed by the likes of Seneca Wallace, Brad Johnson, Mark Brunell, Jon Kitna, and their ilk either - especially with the Mastermind coaching them. One of the "problems" that Denver has had is not sucking enough to be able get a high draft pick for a Manning, Palmer, Rivers, etc. And, of course, the Bears, Bengals, Browns, and Lions have shown that a QB selected with a Top 5 pick doesn't necessarily translate into production. Anyway, I hope that Cutler works out for you guys next year. Unfortunately, Denver fans won't see him until then. Edited November 22, 2006 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Everything I needed to know about Plummer, I learned from watching the 2000 NFL Quarterback challenge from Hawaii. Before the accuracy competition, the cameras catch Peyton and Garcia talking strategy on the bench. Jake Plummer approaches them. Jake: So... what's this event? 4 throws at the moving targets? Peyton: (confused) Didn't you win this competition the last two years? Jake: Dude... I don't remember plays we ran this season. Peyton: (disgusted look of condemnation) And then... Denver started trying to trade for him. that is absolutely baffling. of course i'm referring to the fact that jake WON the accuracy competition TWICE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 that is absolutely baffling. of course i'm referring to the fact that jake WON the accuracy competition TWICE That isn't hard to understand at all. Plummer has a superior package of physical skills. If a QB can just stand and whistle passes downfield with no pressure, Plummer can stand in with the best of them. There is no denying he is physically capable of being a top notch QB. His downfall is when thinking is involved, more to the point quick thinking while pressure is being applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 True but I'd liken the Broncos to Denver as the Yankees are here in New York. It does not matter how many seasons you go 12-4 or 98-64 if you do not win the championship. I seriously doubt the Bronco's have anywhere close to the expectations that the Yankee's do. Even if you made this comment about the Indianapolis Colts where I think the expectations are even higher than that of the Denver Bronco's, it would still fail miserably in comparison to the pressure that the NY Yankees have to win championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 That isn't hard to understand at all. Plummer has a superior package of physical skills. If a QB can just stand and whistle passes downfield with no pressure, Plummer can stand in with the best of them. There is no denying he is physically capable of being a top notch QB. His downfall is when thinking is involved, more to the point quick thinking while pressure is being applied. uhh, jake is NOT an accurate passer standing in the pocket. below average for an NFL QB without question. yet he has uncanny accuracy on the rollout, maybe that's what enabled him to win that particular competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 uhh, jake is NOT an accurate passer standing in the pocket. below average for an NFL QB without question. yet he has uncanny accuracy on the rollout, maybe that's what enabled him to win that particular competition. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I would rather try an unknown than suffer with starting a player who is underacheiving in epic proportions to the detriment of the team just because he is "annointed" in some way. Where were this attitude during the 2004 presidential elections? that is absolutely baffling. of course i'm referring to the fact that jake WON the accuracy competition TWICE Did I mention that there were no defenders on the field for that competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Where were this attitude during the 2004 presidential elections? If there was ever a known for underperformance in the 2004 election, it was Kerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00kiemonster Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Plummer is the Bledsoe of the AFC; plain and simple. Now if Shanahan can make like a certain someone we know down in Big D and finally figure out what his obstacle from a Super Bowl birth is.......man, shouldn't he have figured it out after last year's AFCC loss?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 If there was ever a known for underperformance in the 2004 election, it was Kerry. Electing Kerry would've been like replacing Kitna with McCown. The grass ain't always greener on the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Plummer is the Bledsoe of the AFC; plain and simple. Plummer is an aging, immobile pocket passer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I can when I look at DEN's playoff record under Plummer, or the fact that DEN has lost at home vs IND & SD recently and now has a short week to play in KC, where they traditionally oh poopy the bed and then go to 2 weeks afterwards to SD, when SD's D will be significantly better with Merriman back. If DEN doesn't come up with at least 1 major upset in the next 3 weeks at either KC or SD, they're looking squarely at a WC birth at best, a trip back east in the 1st round, and yet another early playoff exit. Woo-hoo. And what was Denver's playoff record since the last SB championship otherwise. Didn't Plummer win the only playoff game since Elway retired, and give the Patriots under Tom Brady and Bill Belichick their only playoff loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00kiemonster Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) Plummer is an aging, immobile pocket passer? That's not what I meant. Bledsoe and Plummer's styles, of course, are different. What I meant is their one (and main) similarity and that's their ability to choke in big games. That's all. Edited November 22, 2006 by r00kiemonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 That's not what I meant. Bledsoe and Plummer's styles, of course, are different. What I meant is their one (and main) similarity and that's their ability to choke in big games. That's all. Bledsoe choked in the '96 and '01 AFC Championship Games? I see your point, but I'm not sure I'd put those two in the same category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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