Why Florida deserves the NC game

[Rockerbraves]

here you go: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsinde...seasonYear=2006

 

 

Thanks thought I was right. Wisconsin's BCS ranking was #8 and Louisville had a BCS ranking of #9 while LSU was ranked #10. After LSU beat the Hogs they jumped over Wisconsin who was idle and a Louisville team that beat someone. Plus the 3 teams that lost that weekend.

[detlef]

BTW, you can look at all of those ranked wins all you want... SOS has Florida and Michigan in a statistical dead heat.

 

BTW, to truly measure strength of schedule, you should also check the strength of schedule of the teams you played. I believe the RPI that they use in hoops does this. It just so happens I did this. Teams on Florida's schedule averaged 35 in the country (6 opponents with SOS in the top 25) while teams on Michigan averaged 47 (3 opponents with SOS in top 25).

 

That makes the gap a bit wider.

[wiegie]

Thanks thought I was right. Wisconsin's BCS ranking was #8 and Louisville had a BCS ranking of #9 while LSU was ranked #10. After LSU beat the Hogs they jumped over Wisconsin who was idle and a Louisville team that beat someone. Plus the 3 teams that lost that weekend.

 

aha, but here's the rub

 

the reason that LSU went ahead of Wisconsin was due to a change in the computer rankings not the polls (and basically the same is true with respect to Louisville). But in the case of FLA/UM, the computer numbers for FLA are not high enough to push them over the top--it had to be a change in the polls that caused them to go higher.

 

So, I will put the burden back on you to prove me wrong. Show me a case where the #2 ranked team in the nation fell in the polls while they were on a midseason bye. If you can find a case, you win. (I haven't checked, perhaps such a case exists, and if you find it, I will happily admit that I am wrong.)

[Rockerbraves]

aha, but here's the rub

 

the reason that LSU went ahead of Wisconsin was due to a change in the computer rankings not the polls (and basically the same is true with respect to Louisville). But in the case of FLA/UM, the computer numbers for FLA are not high enough to push them over the top--it had to be a change in the polls that caused them to go higher.

 

So, I will put the burden back on you to prove me wrong. Show me a case where the #2 ranked team in the nation fell in the polls while they were on a midseason bye. If you can find a case, you win. (I haven't checked, perhaps such a case exists, and if you find it, I will happily admit that I am wrong.)

 

 

You got me confused now with all that stuff about computer rankings helping my case and voters hurting my case with Wisconsin and now I think you are saying voters are helping my case and computer rankings hurting my case in regard to Michigan.

 

From what I'm hearing, the computer rankings were even so the voters made the decision. Hey, Florida didn't make the rules and neither did Michigan. As it turned out the rules agreed by both teams prior to the season went Florida's way this time. Can't have fair competition without rules and you certainly can't change the rules in the middle of the game whether you like them or not.

[wiegie]

From what I'm hearing, the computer rankings were even so the voters made the decision.

Yep, that's what I'm saying. I went on to say that if this past weekend's games had taken place in mid-October that the voters would very likely not have pushed FLA over UM. (I was basically agreeing with Furd's comment that the reason that the voters were willing to push FLA over UM this particular weekend was because they didn't want to see a OSU/UM rematch and they knew that such a rematch would have been a direct result if they voted UM #2.)

 

And to be honest, I didn't want to see an OSU/UM rematch either (even if I think UM is better than Florida).

[Rockerbraves]

Yep, that's what I'm saying. I went on to say that if this past weekend's games had taken place in mid-October that the voters would very likely not have pushed FLA over UM. (I was basically agreeing with Furd's comment that the reason that the voters were willing to push FLA over UM this particular weekend was because they didn't want to see a OSU/UM rematch and they knew that such a rematch would have been a direct result if they voted UM #2.)

 

And to be honest, I didn't want to see an OSU/UM rematch either (even if I think UM is better than Florida).

 

 

Tough to debate the what might have happen. Just trying to show you what did happen. Teams get bumped all the time when they are on byes and sometimes even when they win. The timing of the bump or the ranking shouldn't matter.

[sacosud]

The big thing for me is Michigan remained #2 after the OSU loss and SC jumped them and then USC lost so Michigan was 3 and ''idle" and got punished by not playing?? Does Fla. jump Michigan if USC wins???? Do you honestly look in the mirror and say a #2 who did not lose should get jumped by #4...You can put make up on a pig and it's still a pig. NO ONE OUTSIDE MIDWEST WANTED A REMATCH. This was never about the 2 best teams it's about the most attractive matchup. Vegas seems to think Michigan would beat Florida by + 6 I'll take those guys picks over any poll.

 

Now Big Ten just has to show it on the field.

 

These debates are already getting old and let's face it, SEC fans are not going to convince me how just it was for Michigan to get jumped and I'm not going to convice SEC fans that the ONLY reason Michigan got jumped was because the rematch was not sexy enough for the South and the West Coast.

[Rockerbraves]

The big thing for me is Michigan remained #2 after the OSU loss and SC jumped them and then USC lost so Michigan was 3 and ''idle" and got punished by not playing?? Does Fla. jump Michigan if USC wins???? Do you honestly look in the mirror and say a #2 who did not lose should get jumped by #4...

 

 

Look at the above post. Wisconsin got bumped when sitting idle and Louisville got bumped winning? Happens all the time. When LSU is on bye I always either worry about getting passed by teams behind them and get excited about the possibility of passing someone without playing. It works both ways.

[Furd]

I'm a Michigan man. Am I outraged or upset by the decision to send Florida instaed of Michigan to the championship game? No. Do I think that Michigan got jobbed? Sure they did.

 

You have a bunch of teams with one loss. One of them played the undisputed no. 1 team in the nation, on that team's home field, and lost by three points. This was enough to earn that team a number 2 ranking.

 

Nothing happened last weekend to change that. Florida's schedule didn't get any tougher. Florida's win over the #8 team (do they have a QB?) was not impressive enough to vault Florida from #4 to #2.

 

There are two things that I've heard repeatedly: 1) Michgan had their shot. Give someone else a chance; and 2) Michigan didn't win their conference. Neither has anything to do with which school has the better team right now.

 

If you want to do math, or whatever, to try to justify Florida playing in the championship game. Go right ahead. But if you don't think that the overiding factor was that the voters did not want to see a rematch, I don't think that you're being very objective.

[Cyclones]

I'm a Michigan man. Am I outraged or upset by the decision to send Florida instaed of Michigan to the championship game? No. Do I think that Michigan got jobbed? Sure they did.

 

You have a bunch of teams with one loss. One of them played the undisputed no. 1 team in the nation, on that team's home field, and lost by three points. This was enough to earn that team a number 2 ranking.

 

Nothing happened last weekend to change that. Florida's schedule didn't get any tougher. Florida's win over the #8 team (do they have a QB?) was not impressive enough to vault Florida from #4 to #2.

 

There are two things that I've heard repeatedly: 1) Michgan had their shot. Give someone else a chance; and 2) Michigan didn't win their conference. Neither has anything to do with which school has the better team right now.

 

If you want to do math, or whatever, to try to justify Florida playing in the championship game. Go right ahead. But if you don't think that the overiding factor was that the voters did not want to see a rematch, I don't think that you're being very objective.

 

 

Sorry, but saying "we lost to the best team in the country" doesn't hold water. Michigan attained the number 2 ranking by beating a WILDLY overrated Notre Dame team (the same ND team that needed multiple gifts to beat MSU, a last minute 50+ yard TD to beat UCLA, and got drummed by USC.) So, the UM fans hang their hats on the close loss on the road to OSU. I watched that game from beginning to end, and the only time I didnt feel very confident that OSU would win was after Hart's opening drive TD. The rest of the game was controlled by OSU. I'm a Kentucky fan and hate Florida, but the fact is they beat more good teams than Michigan did. Michigan had its chance to play in this game, but they didnt get the job done. And the fact that Fla was #4 and UM was #2 going into the game is meaningless. Under that argument, why even vote the final week? Is Florida's convincing win over a top 10 opponent meaningless? Michigan got fat beating ND, and held on to the ranking by default. When they faced a good team, they folded. Plain and simple.

[Furd]

And the fact that Fla was #4 and UM was #2 going into the game is meaningless.

 

You can't be serious.

[Cyclones]

You can't be serious.

 

 

Yes. Yes I am. Florida won a game convincingly against a top shelf opponent. Hence, they are eligible to move up in the polls.

[theeohiostate]

Yes. Yes I am. Florida won a game convincingly against a top shelf opponent. Hence, they are eligible to move up in the polls.

 

 

 

You are so f'ing blind it's well worth noting.

 

 

I've seen several of your post, and it's your opinon the voters made the jump based on Florida's win over Arkansas............................

 

 

I guess not wanting to see a rematch was the afterthought they're all backpeddling about today then?

[jaxfactor]

 

 

If you want to do math, or whatever, to try to justify Florida playing in the championship game. Go right ahead. But if you don't think that the overiding factor was that the voters did not want to see a rematch, I don't think that you're being very objective.

 

 

BINGO!!! I think that if UM played OSU again and UM won, what would happen then? This IS probably the biggest reason the voters jumped FL to #2. To avoid the can of worms. If I had a vote and was truly unbiased, I would have voted for UM and hope that this very scenario would happen. Then maybe the NCAA would open up their eyes and realize that this BCS system is f*cked up.

[Cyclones]

You are so f'ing blind it's well worth noting.

I've seen several of your post, and it's your opinon the voters made the jump based on Florida's win over Arkansas............................

I guess not wanting to see a rematch was the afterthought they're all backpeddling about today then?

 

 

Let's all sling insults, shall we? Look, not wanting to see the rematch was certainly a factor. But to say that teams can't move around in the polls based on results is silly. That's why they vote AFTER the games are played.

[sacosud]

Look at the above post. Wisconsin got bumped when sitting idle and Louisville got bumped winning? Happens all the time. When LSU is on bye I always either worry about getting passed by teams behind them and get excited about the possibility of passing someone without playing. It works both ways.

 

Not buying it....Sorry Michigan got jobbed end of story for me.

[sacosud]

Yes. Yes I am. Florida won a game convincingly against a top shelf opponent. Hence, they are eligible to move up in the polls.

 

That Ark. was not a convincing win. I mean Ark scored 17 unanswered points to take a 21-17 lead and would have been in firm control had Fish just let that ball go. I just don't see a#2 getting jumped by a #4 when the #2 had not played in 2 weeks. Michigan should have dropped to #4 after the OSU loss the fact that the nation voted them to stay at number 2 right after the loss means all the difference. Coaches/Harris poll thought they was the #2 two weeks ago what changed????when USC lost people who vote looked at a rematch hitting them right in the face and voted according to make sure that would not take place.

 

SEC fans argument would hold water with me had Michigan fell to #4 two weeks ago and not held their #2 spot after the OSU loss that's all and since that did not happen no one will convince me that advoiding a rematch was the reason for the voting and the fall.

[Furd]

Yes. Yes I am. Florida won a game convincingly against a top shelf opponent. Hence, they are eligible to move up in the polls.

 

 

I watched that game. Arkansas didn't look all that impressive to me. And I would hardly say that Florida won "convincingly."

 

Look, not wanting to see the rematch was certainly a factor. But to say that teams can't move around in the polls based on results is silly. That's why they vote AFTER the games are played.

 

 

We're not just talking about "moving around" in the polls. We're talking about taking away a teams #2 ranking and a spot in the championship game.

 

 

I just don't see a#2 getting jumped by a #4 when the #2 had not played in 2 weeks. Michigan should have dropped to #4 after the OSU loss the fact that the nation voted them to stay at number 2 right after the loss means all the difference. Coaches/Harris poll thought they was the #2 two weeks ago what changed????when USC lost people who vote looked at a rematch hitting them right in the face and voted according to make sure that would not take place.

 

SEC fans argument would hold water with me had Michigan fell to #4 two weeks ago and not held their #2 spot after the OSU loss that's all and since that did not happen no one will convince me that advoiding a rematch was the reason for the voting and the fall.

 

 

I agree with this. Argue all you want that Michigan didn't deserve the #2 ranking prior to last week's games. There are reasonable arguments for that. But, like it or not, Michigan was the #2 team last week. You cannot convince me that anything happened on the field last week to convince any objective observer that Florida is now the better team.

['canes2004]

Unless FL played Mich there really is no way to find out who the better or more deserving team is. The same flawed system that put FL into the NC game is the same flawed system that had Mich #2 before the SEC Championship game. They were basically voted #2 while being idle for 2 weeks.

 

The current system is crap, I think we can all agree on that. It's not gonna get much better anytime soon. All we can hope for is that the Plus One game will help things out a bit. At least then the top 4 will get to play it out on the field to determine who the #1 team is. Of course teams just outside the top 4 will then have issues.

 

I know that most of you Big Ten guys are against a Conference Championship game for some odd reason. But if the Big Ten and the Pac 10 would both have them, I think it would be easier to at least get a group of 4-5 conference champs that could play for a NC. Just like in pro sports, win your conference, move on to the playoffs. Maybe we could do away with the polls altogether and the fat sports writers and bitter ex-jocks who vote in them.

[untateve]

Again, similar to what detlef said, we don't know if Florida is better/worse than Michigan and no one will ever know with certainty...because they don't play--thank you BCS.

 

Florida did not win convincingly. They have not won convincingly against just about all of their Div 1 opponents. The Gator offense is not consistent and Leak is prone to making mistakes because he is in an offense that does not fit with his ability (I'm really looking forward to Tebow running this offense next year). Our running game has been inconsistent due to injury and we have little depth on the offensive line. That being said, the Gators have won 12, lost 1, and are SEC Champions. I stand by my assertion that the Gator defense is scary good.

 

I am a huge Gator fan/alumnus. There is no question in my mind that Florida jumped Michigan for 2 reasons: People did not want to see a rematch and Michigan already lost to Ohio State once. The BCS is set up in such a way that someone was going to get screwed. This year, it wasn't the SEC--and Florida is the benefactor. I'm happy about this. I won't apologize or feel bad about Florida playing for the NC.

[Rockerbraves]

Sorry, but saying "we lost to the best team in the country" doesn't hold water. Michigan attained the number 2 ranking by beating a WILDLY overrated Notre Dame team (the same ND team that needed multiple gifts to beat MSU, a last minute 50+ yard TD to beat UCLA, and got drummed by USC.) So, the UM fans hang their hats on the close loss on the road to OSU. I watched that game from beginning to end, and the only time I didnt feel very confident that OSU would win was after Hart's opening drive TD. The rest of the game was controlled by OSU. I'm a Kentucky fan and hate Florida, but the fact is they beat more good teams than Michigan did. Michigan had its chance to play in this game, but they didnt get the job done. And the fact that Fla was #4 and UM was #2 going into the game is meaningless. Under that argument, why even vote the final week? Is Florida's convincing win over a top 10 opponent meaningless? Michigan got fat beating ND, and held on to the ranking by default. When they faced a good team, they folded. Plain and simple.

 

 

+1

 

And lets not forget Michigan was not the #2 ranked team last week. They were ranked #3. Don't understand how anyone can say argue Michigan deserves to move up when they lost their last game they played and did nothing but sit home while Florida went out and beat a top ten team in a championship atmosphere.

 

Come on everyone. As much as everyone thinks Ohio State is the best team. I don't see anyone crowning them the NC. At this point we don't even know if they are the #2 team. The thing we do know is that Michigan lost to Ohio State just a few weeks ago, so that should eliminate them from consideration.

 

If you want to argue who is number #2 you better include Ohio State in the equation since the Gators are not looking to prove they are number 2 like Michigan is. Gators are looking to prove they are #1. If the Gators beat Ohio State feel free to argue that Michigan is better than Ohio State and plead how they deserve the #2 spot in the polls. In the meantime we want to see who the #1 team is on the playing field.

Edited December 5, 2006 by Rockerbraves

[GWPFFL BrianW]

BTW, to truly measure strength of schedule, you should also check the strength of schedule of the teams you played. I believe the RPI that they use in hoops does this. It just so happens I did this. Teams on Florida's schedule averaged 35 in the country (6 opponents with SOS in the top 25) while teams on Michigan averaged 47 (3 opponents with SOS in top 25).

 

That makes the gap a bit wider.

 

 

I would argue, that Strength of Schedule is a myth. I'm just pointing out, that raw numbers have both teams pretty even.

[GWPFFL BrianW]

Sorry, but saying "we lost to the best team in the country" doesn't hold water. Michigan attained the number 2 ranking by beating a WILDLY overrated Notre Dame team (the same ND team that needed multiple gifts to beat MSU, a last minute 50+ yard TD to beat UCLA, and got drummed by USC.) So, the UM fans hang their hats on the close loss on the road to OSU. I watched that game from beginning to end, and the only time I didnt feel very confident that OSU would win was after Hart's opening drive TD. The rest of the game was controlled by OSU. I'm a Kentucky fan and hate Florida, but the fact is they beat more good teams than Michigan did. Michigan had its chance to play in this game, but they didnt get the job done. And the fact that Fla was #4 and UM was #2 going into the game is meaningless. Under that argument, why even vote the final week? Is Florida's convincing win over a top 10 opponent meaningless? Michigan got fat beating ND, and held on to the ranking by default. When they faced a good team, they folded. Plain and simple.

 

 

They beat more good teams according to you, but no one in the SEC has proven anything. They merely have a bunch of talking heads saying their good. I personally think they are good, but I'm no better than any of the talking heads.

[detlef]

I would argue, that Strength of Schedule is a myth. I'm just pointing out, that raw numbers have both teams pretty even.

 

What is mythical about Strength of Schedule? If SOS is a myth, then both FL and Mich should get out of the way and let Boise St. play OSU. I do think it can be misleading unless you do as I did and check the SOS of the teams they played. ND and Wisconson sure make Mich's SOS look nice because they have 3 losses between them until you realize that neither of those teams has beaten anyone good. Thus, neither team may be any better than Tenn who has as many losses as they do combined.

[detlef]

They beat more good teams according to you, but no one in the SEC has proven anything. They merely have a bunch of talking heads saying their good. I personally think they are good, but I'm no better than any of the talking heads.

 

I absolutely agree. It is my perception that the SEC is stronger. It is, in fact, the opinion of essentially everyone in college football's perception that the SEC is stronger. However, as you say, they've shown little proof so far. No conference has proven itself as superior. They've got nine chances (imagine that 9 of the 12 SEC teams are in a bowl) to show it.