matt770 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Can someone please explain to me what is so inflammatory or even slightly inaccurate about what Mora said? For some reason Vick is still the NFL's sacred cow. I just don't get it. He can be exciting to watch but everyone knows he's lacking as a passer. ATLANTA -- Jim Mora's father has left his job with Fox Sports Radio in the wake of his comments about Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, the network told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "He has left the network, we can confirm that," Fox Radio vice president and general manager Andrew Ashwood told the newspaper. He did not add any details, saying it's company policy not to comment on personnel matters. Last month, the elder Jim Mora agreed with host Craig Shemon's assertion that Vick was a "coach-killer." He also expressed concerns about Vick's passing ability and the job security of his son, Falcons coach Jim Mora. "It worries me a little bit because my son is the head coach down there," the elder Mora said. "But he's a great athlete, my son likes him a lot, he's a good kid. But he's not a passer. And you need a passer at quarterback to be successful consistently in the National Football League. And he ain't getting it done in that category." The newspaper said it could not reach Mora's father for comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 It was an ill-advised comment by Mora Sr. but he was never very objective about his son's team anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Obviously, Mora isnt black... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) Making accurate observations of NFL players has been ill advised for a long time. Making stupid, untrue 'observations' is much more mainstream. It's called the Michael Irvin syndrome, but is also occasionally known as the Theisman effect. Edited December 6, 2006 by Caveman_Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampnuts Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 It's too bad that an analyst can't voice his honest opinion. This is a joke IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 That's BS.......i like listenin to the Coach........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted December 6, 2006 Author Share Posted December 6, 2006 It was an ill-advised comment by Mora Sr. but he was never very objective about his son's team anyway. I don't see how you can look at the Falcons' recent history and come to any other conclusion than that they are unlikely to go far with Vick as their QB, even in the mediocre NFC. To me, that's an objective and accurate viewpoint. Mora gets paid to give his honest analysis, he did so in this case, said nothing inaccurate, in fact went out of his way to praise Vick in other aspects, and lost his job. The fact that Vick is black, or that Mora's son is the HC, should have no bearing. If he said it about Alex Smith or Charlie Frye, would this be the result? This kind of thing is really infuriating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted December 6, 2006 Author Share Posted December 6, 2006 Making accurate observations of NFL players has been ill advised for a long time. Making stupid, untrue 'observations' is much more mainstream. It's called the Michael Irvin syndrome, but is also occasionally known as the Theisman effect. That's another thing, I can't think of one person I know in real life or whose posts I've read in this forum or elsewhere who think Irvin is anything other than a complete idiot who should not a have a job in broadcasting. The only value of his presence is the occasional comic relief when his co-hosts can take no more and call him an idiot. But that is far outweighed by how annoying his voice is. I find it hard to believe that ESPN doesn't do consumer research like most companies do. Do some focus groups in any city across the country, Irvin's favorable rating can't be more than 5%, and that's being generous. How does he still have a job?!?! I know it's been beaten to death, but some things really beg for some kind of explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I think his comments brought to the forefront a conflict of interest if he is going to comment on the team his son coaches especially if he is going to take a big swing at that teams "Marquee" player. I think the thinking was that he may not have worded his criticism the same way if his son wasnt the coach. If he was talking about Grossman he wouldnt have called him a coach killer he wouldve just said the guy isnt an accurate passer..Plus ever since his whole "PLAYOFFS???" rant I never paid much attention to him anyway.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 That's another thing, I can't think of one person I know in real life or whose posts I've read in this forum or elsewhere who think Irvin is anything other than a complete idiot who should not a have a job in broadcasting. The only value of his presence is the occasional comic relief when his co-hosts can take no more and call him an idiot. But that is far outweighed by how annoying his voice is. I find it hard to believe that ESPN doesn't do consumer research like most companies do. Do some focus groups in any city across the country, Irvin's favorable rating can't be more than 5%, and that's being generous. How does he still have a job?!?! I know it's been beaten to death, but some things really beg for some kind of explanation. Realize this is the same phenomena that you see in any corporation when promotions are not always to the most qualified. Those on top of the pyramid have a much different view than those at the base. I am a life-long Cowboys fan and I loved Irvin when he was a player. I will be the first to admit I cannot stand to watch him as a commentator. One tact to this is that as with all things television, they try to assemble a diverse group so that no two people are alike and there is good and bad present. Also TV loves when there is conflict since it makes "good TV" rather than people agreeing with each other. Irvin is there to be the contrarian and IMO the court jester at times. In football, this all harkens back to Cosell who most people hated but the networks loved because he made people talk about MNF. It's all choreographed. I have long been in the anti-Thiesman camp to the point he is the absolute last person I would want to listen to. But he has a name and decision makers think he is some sort of icon. When we started doing the FF Handbook, our publisher told us that we almost had an NFL star that would write a coumn for it and be on the cover but he wanted too much money - THEISMAN! Problem is that we as FF'ers are far beyond the average casual TV watching football fan. I generally like Kornheiser on PTI but the role he is given now is to fawn over Thiesman and to repeatedly ask Theisman questions like Tony is an idiot and Thiesman is the sage. It is really hard to listen to. Blame much of this all on the general direction of the media. Everything has to be Disney now and all about entertainment for some bland mass. The try to make football be more "accessible" to the casual fan figuring on the numbers are there. They miss the boat on appealing to the core viewers. I just want to watch football and the best commentators are the ones that I don't really notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraftykraft Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I have no idea why Fox did this, except that they are scared of hurting Vick's marketability. Was Mora Sr.'s comment racially based? No--he never said anything about "black quarterbacks only think about running first, or don't have the leadership skills that white quarterbacks have" or any of the other old stereotypes. Were Mora's comments unfair? No. When Vick consistently misses open receivers and does things like run for 150 yards while the team still loses, I think that Mora's comments were valid. Fox should grow a pair and remember that football fans like us actually like to hear genuine commentary and analysis about football--not just a bunch of kissup interviews and human interest stories passed off as football news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 someone should ask mora sr. what he thinks about the falcons chances in the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 nice observation, IMVHO, from TMQ this week... Sweet Play of the Week No. 1: Redskins leading 14-10 in yet another desultory effort by the Falcons, Atlanta had the ball on the Nanticokes' 22, and Mora the Younger radioed in some dumb play -- probably a 14-step drop that required Michael Vick to sprint backward to midfield. Vick defied his coach and in the huddle drew up a post pattern to Michael Jenkins: touchdown. Afterward Vick said, "Sometimes you have to overcome coaching." Bravo! Mora isn't stuck with a coach-killer quarterback, Vick is stuck with a quarterback-killer coach. Here is a suggestion to put Atlanta into the playoffs: Switch off the helmet radio and let Vick call his own plays. Have Mora spend all his time talking to his dad on a cell phone on the sideline. Vick is a gifted player, Mora is a knuckleheaded coach. Let the gifted player take charge and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Obviously, Mora isnt black... Good answer. Mora absolutely projected his opinion without any regard to race or anything else inflammatory other than sticking a very large accurate barb into the Golden Calf himself, Michael Vick. And yet we have to put up with the racist blathering of Michael Irvin while no one has the cajones to fire his sorry ignorant rearend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) I have no idea why Fox did this, except that they are scared of hurting Vick's marketability. Was Mora Sr.'s comment racially based? No--he never said anything about "black quarterbacks only think about running first, or don't have the leadership skills that white quarterbacks have" or any of the other old stereotypes. Were Mora's comments unfair? No. When Vick consistently misses open receivers and does things like run for 150 yards while the team still loses, I think that Mora's comments were valid. Fox should grow a pair and remember that football fans like us actually like to hear genuine commentary and analysis about football--not just a bunch of kissup interviews and human interest stories passed off as football news. I agree, the comments are not racially-biased. I bet that Lovie Smith's dad is saying the same things about Rex (Mr. 1.3) Grossman right about now...! As far as Fox's involvement, was Coach Mora fired or did he leave on his own? Sounds like he left of his own volition and if so, Fox may have had nothing to do with the decision. Edited December 6, 2006 by The Wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Here is a suggestion to put Atlanta into the playoffs: Switch off the helmet radio and let Vick call his own plays. Have Mora spend all his time talking to his dad on a cell phone on the sideline. Vick is a gifted player, Mora is a knuckleheaded coach. Let the gifted player take charge and see what happens. What I wouldn't give to see something like this happen, and then to hear all the excuse making from the Vick worshippers when he falls flat on his face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 As far as Fox's involvement, was Coach Mora fired or did he leave on his own? Sounds like he left of his own volition and if so, Fox may have had nothing to do with the decision. Yeah, I'm sure he was just planning on leaving suddenly in mid-season on his own and the timing with the Vick comments was just an incredible coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) What I wouldn't give to see something like this happen, and then to hear all the excuse making from the Vick worshippers when he falls flat on his face. maybe, at worst it would be fun to watch and they continue to generally suck and make mistakes and drop passes. at best, who knows... it's not like Mora Jr. and Knapp are beyond reproach either. Edited December 6, 2006 by kingfish247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 so why would everyone assume the issue is race here, not the fact that he's undermining his own son? am i missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 it's not like Mora Jr. and Knapp are beyond reproach either. Agreed. That privledge is only extended to Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Yeah, I'm sure he was just planning on leaving suddenly in mid-season on his own and the timing with the Vick comments was just an incredible coincidence. Not necessarily. Perhaps he's feeling the heat (not within Fox) for his comments and decided he wanted out. We don't know for sure what happened, so to pin it on the network is not completely fair. Let's put it this way...if you're a Fox executive, do you fine Mora for that comment when you do not fire the Stockton, Johnston and Siragusa team into duping that Carolina fan into thinking he really won a pick up truck? The broadcast team cost Fox Sports a new vehicle...what did Mora do that was so wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpholmes Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 so why would everyone assume the issue is race here, not the fact that he's undermining his own son? am i missing something? That was my general assumption as well, simply the fact he was critisizing his son's favorite player on his son's own team. Doesn't seem like a very nice dad thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I think his comments brought to the forefront a conflict of interest if he is going to comment on the team his son coaches especially if he is going to take a big swing at that teams "Marquee" player. I think the thinking was that he may not have worded his criticism the same way if his son wasnt the coach. If he was talking about Grossman he wouldnt have called him a coach killer he wouldve just said the guy isnt an accurate passer..Plus ever since his whole "PLAYOFFS???" rant I never paid much attention to him anyway.. I think it's fair to say that Mike Vick has a stranglehold on the Falcons in a unique way. Rex Grossman could get benched at the whim of the coach. If that happened with Vick, the coach would probably find himself jobless before the next game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Agreed. That privledge is only extended to Vick. hmmm, might have to disagree there. Vick certainly has his share of very vocal critics. I think the difference is that the volume is louder when it's directed at one of the highest paid players in the league. Probably rightly so but Knapp and Mora are just as much apart of the franchise as Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 hmmm, might have to disagree there. Vick certainly has his share of very vocal critics. In the media? Aside from Mora Sr & Jaworski? Who else can you name that doesn't worship at Vick's alter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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