jhartt526 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 (edited) In the NFL.com Box Score, Shaun Alexander was credited with 22 carries for 76 yards. His full play by play stats indicated that he actually had 22 carries for 82 yards. I believe carry number 17 is where the discrepancy occured. The situation was 1-10- Sea 23 and here is the the play-by-play breakdown: I believe the scorekeeper substracted three yards from Alexanders rushing total instead of adding three yards, explaining the discrepancy between 76 and 82 yards rushing. Please reply if you have any suggestions. Play 17: 1-10-SEA23 (14:49) S.Alexander left tackle to SEA 26 for 3 yards (G.Hayes). PENALTY on SEA-D.Branch, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 26. The penalty was enforced from the 26 meaning the three yards should be credited to Alexander. If not, than the carry would not count and he would only have 21 carries for 79 yards. Here are all 22 carries, totaling 82 yards rushing. 1 (13:57) S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 40 for 3 yards (K.Dansby). 2 (12:38) S.Alexander right end to ARZ 46 for 7 yards (C.Okeafor, D.Dockett). 3 (8:44) S.Alexander left tackle to SEA 11 for 4 yards (D.Dockett). 4 (7:04) S.Alexander left tackle to SEA 27 for 7 yards (D.Macklin, O.Huff). 5 (6:08) S.Alexander right tackle to SEA 35 for 6 yards (D.Dockett). 6 (5:36) S.Alexander right end to SEA 30 for -5 yards (R.Griffith, C.Okeafor). FUMBLES (R.Griffith), RECOVERED by ARZ-A.Wilson at SEA 24. A.Wilson to SEA 24 for no gain (J.Stevens). 7 (14:10) S.Alexander right end to SEA 9 for -1 yards (O.Huff, C.Cooper). 8 (12:50) S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 33 for 9 yards (A.Rolle). 9 (2:46) S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 18 for 2 yards (A.Wilson). 10 (10:29) S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 48 for 5 yards (K.Dansby, A.Smith). 11 (10:02) S.Alexander right end to ARZ 46 for 6 yards (A.Rolle). 12 (9:25) S.Alexander up the middle to ARZ 42 for 4 yards (A.Francisco). 13 (8:51) S.Alexander left tackle to ARZ 36 for 6 yards (K.Dansby). 14 (8:22) S.Alexander left end to ARZ 32 for 4 yards (A.Francisco). 15 (7:00) S.Alexander left tackle to ARZ 20 for 4 yards (D.Dockett, K.Dansby). 16 (5:55) S.Alexander left end to ARZ 2 for no gain (A.Smith). 17* (14:49) S.Alexander left tackle to SEA 26 for 3 yards (G.Hayes). PENALTY on SEA-D.Branch, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 26. 18 (13:21) S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 32 for no gain (D.Dockett). 19 (7:52) S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 5 for 1 yard (A.Wilson). 20 (2:46) S.Alexander left tackle to ARZ 43 for 7 yards (G.Hayes). 21 (2:00) S.Alexander left tackle to ARZ 15 for 12 yards (R.Griffith). 22 (1:40) S.Alexander up the middle to ARZ 17 for -2 yards (D.Dockett). Edited December 12, 2006 by jhartt526 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTed46 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Did you lose by 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Did you lose by 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 (edited) Play 17: 1-10-SEA23 (14:49) S.Alexander left tackle to SEA 26 for 3 yards (G.Hayes). PENALTY on SEA-D.Branch, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 26. nope, that penalty nullifies the play. so SA doesn't get those yards. the other "missing" 3 yards is no doubt another error on your part. sorry about your 1 point loss edit: here it is: 3-1-SEA18 (2:18) S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 21 for 3 yards (K.Dansby).PENALTY on SEA-S.Alexander, Illegal Motion, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 18 - No Play. Edited December 12, 2006 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 nope, that penalty nullifies the play. so SA doesn't get those yards. He may have made an error somewhere else in his calulations, but according to NFL rules, a "block above the waist" penalty is enforced at the spot of the foul, and does not nullify a play. If he is correct, Alexander should have an additional 3 yards. Not sure where the other phantom three yards are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulOttCarruth Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 This is what the nfl.com play by play says: 1-10-SEA23 (14:49) S.Alexander left tackle to SEA 26 for 3 yards (G.Hayes). PENALTY on SEA-D.Branch, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 26. 1-17-SEA16 (14:34) M.Hasselbeck pass deep middle to D.Jackson to SEA 37 for 21 yards (A.Rolle). FUMBLES (A.Rolle), recovered by SEA-M.Hasselbeck at SEA 25. M.Hasselbeck to SEA 25 for no gain (K.Dansby). Looks like the play was negated and they re-played first down. That means no 3 yards for Alexander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhartt526 Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 Did you lose by 1? Yes I actually lost by .5. And no, the play was not negated because it was 1-10 from the seattle 23 and it was an alexander 3 yard run, and a 10 yard penalty enforced from the seattle 26, making it 1-17. Someone is responsible for those three yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat2334 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Leave NFL Stats to the pros- Not sure if you watched the game or not- but the missing 3 yds. was actually a fumblerooski to Pork Chop Womack - check the log again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Yes I actually lost by .5. And no, the play was not negated because it was 1-10 from the seattle 23 and it was an alexander 3 yard run, and a 10 yard penalty enforced from the seattle 26, making it 1-17. Someone is responsible for those three yards. not if first down was repeated. it could even be that the refs screwed up spotting the ball or something, but i don't think so -- i think it's simply a spot-of-the-foul penalty. either way, the fact that they replayed the down means the first one never happened, statistically speaking. sorry, you can write all the letters you want, but you still lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Looks like the play was negated and they re-played first down. That means no 3 yards for Alexander. Incorrect...they replayed first-down, but it was 1st-and-17, not 1st-and-20..... Based on this, Alexander picked up the three yards, and then they marched off the 10-yard penalty. It happens all the time. Alexander should have been given credit for the 3-yard gain. And he is right, rather than giving him the three yards, it looks like they SUBTRACTED the three yards by mistake. If you look at the game log, and add it all manually, Alexander has 82 yards. Even if they don't give him credit for the 3-yard gain, he would still have 79. There is no way in the world he should have 76, which is what the stat log says he finished with. Looks like an error to me, and one that will probably be corrected today/tomorrow by Elias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 not if first down was repeated. it could even be that the refs screwed up spotting the ball or something, but i don't think so -- i think it's simply a spot-of-the-foul penalty. either way, the fact that they replayed the down means the first one never happened, statistically speaking. sorry, you can write all the letters you want, but you still lose. You are very very wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Incorrect...they replayed first-down, but it was 1st-and-17, not 1st-and-20..... Based on this, Alexander picked up the three yards, and then they marched off the 10-yard penalty. It happens all the time. Alexander should have been given credit for the 3-yard gain. And he is right, rather than giving him the three yards, it looks like they SUBTRACTED the three yards by mistake. If you look at the game log, and add it all manually, Alexander has 82 yards. Even if they don't give him credit for the 3-yard gain, he would still have 79. There is no way in the world he should have 76, which is what the stat log says he finished with. Looks like an error to me, and one that will probably be corrected today/tomorrow by Elias. i'm not going to add them all up, but i see two instances on the game log where alexander gains 3 yards and the down is replayed. to me, that would explain the discrepancy. i guess this guy can sit back and hope that elias somehow changes the stats...but if i were him i wouldn't be holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 (edited) You are very very wrong. how much would you like to wager that elias does not add three yards to alexander's stats for this game? edit: check that. i get 21 carries for 79, leaving out the 3 yard carry on the down that was replayed because of the block in the back penalty. the stat line right now has 22 carries for 76, so it appears you're right, they docked him 3 yards somehow. he must either have 21 for 79, or 22 for 82. i don't believe 22 for 76 can possibly be correct. so yeah, i think this guy has a good shot at having his result reversed. Edited December 12, 2006 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 (edited) i'm not going to add them all up, you should...it takes about 90 seconds to do it. You would then see your argument is tainted. Yes, there was another play earlier where Alexander gained 3 yards, but he was called for illegal motion, negating the play. Thats why, in the game log, it states "No Play". In the play this thread is referring to, there is no mention of "No Play"...meaning the play should count, and the penalty is marched off "at the point of the infraction". The reason they do this is simple: the play counts, and then the penalty is enforced. And yes, what the hell...I'll do a one-week sig-line bet with you that it is changed. But they won't add three yards...they will add SIX yards. It obviously appears that the statistician made a clerical error...rather than add three yards to Alexander's total, he subtracted three yards...thus, the 6-point difference. I am sure, with all the fantasy nuts out there, that it will be brought to the attention of Elias. Edited December 12, 2006 by i_am_the_swammi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 (edited) Leave NFL Stats to the pros- exactly Edited December 12, 2006 by alexgaddis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 you should...it takes about 90 seconds to do it. You would then see your argument is tainted. i did. see my edit above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Here is the play you are referring to: 3-1-SEA18 (2:18) S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 21 for 3 yards (K.Dansby). PENALTY on SEA-S.Alexander, Illegal Motion, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 18 - No Play. And here is the one in question: -10-SEA23 (14:49) S.Alexander left tackle to SEA 26 for 3 yards (G.Hayes). PENALTY on SEA-D.Branch, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 26. In the first, the statistician correctly noted "No Play", thus SA was not given credit for three yards. In the second, no such notation was made....thus, the play should have counted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_am_the_swammi Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 how much would you like to wager that elias does not add three yards to alexander's stats for this game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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