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Playoff dispute


MikesVikes
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This is what happened in a local league for week 15. SF/Sea play Thurs nite game. A Franchise wanted to play Gore but they didn't put in a lineup until Saturday of that week. The lineup he put in on Saturday was Dillon and not Gore. Of course he wasn't allowed (by MFL) to put Gore in his lineup since he already played for the week. The person played Gore the previous week to advance to week 15. The rules are that players in early games are locked and you can change your other lineup until the first game on Sunday.

 

The person said that he put Dillon in his lineup to see if it would let him. Of course it let him. It wouldn't let him start Gore but Dillon was still available.

 

The person would win if he had Gore. He loses with Dillon. He changed 3 other players in his lineup from the previous week so it wasn't like he was going for the "I didn't put a lineup in so I'm going with last week's lineup" routine. The commissioner has made a ruling and it didn't take him long to decide this one.

 

Some in the league are saying that MFL must have screwed the pooch. Others say that it must be the commish but he seems like a nice enough dude. :D

 

Btw, here is a copy of what's on the league home page...If you guys want to start players from Thursday games, put in a lineup before gametime on Thursday. Any other players that don't play on Thursday or Saturday can be changed out of your lineup until Noon, Sunday.

 

How would you rule it?

 

Allow person to play Gore or Keep Dillon in his lineup.

Edited by MikesVikes
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If the rules specify that when an early game has occurred that any team that has not entered a lineup prior to that early game is locked into the start/bench status from the previous week for players from any early games ... then by definition Gore is in the lineup. The software should not have allowed him to bench him.

 

Having said that you almost want to apply a dumb ass penalty to the idiot for benching Gore after the fact and the whining that Gore should be the starter by rule. Sounds like this guy was trying to play the system; i.e. had Dillon outscored Gore he would not have said anything but since Gore outscored Dillon he is now wanting to abide by the rules.

Edited by Grits and Shins
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The rules are that players in early games are locked and you can change your other lineup until the first game on Sunday.

 

If you guys want to start players from Thursday games, put in a lineup before gametime on Thursday. Any other players that don't play on Thursday or Saturday can be changed out of your lineup until Noon, Sunday.

 

 

 

These statements are in conflict.

 

By the first statement my original statement holds. Players are locked from early games and the owner should not have been allowed to bench Gore.

 

By the second statement owners have to specifically start players in early games or they are locked out. In this case Dillon must remain the starter.

 

Do you really have this conflict in your rules?

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Here is the MFL rule. Lineup Submission Deadline: Players In Early Games Are Locked At Kickoff Of Their Game, Other Players Are Locked At The First Game Sunday

 

This is not contradictory. Grits, are you saying that if you don't have any lineup entered on Thursday that you are mandated to use last week's lineup? The rule is that those early game players are no longer available to start while Sunday players still are. The person put in a lineup on Saturday and Gore has a "grayed out" box beside his name because he's a no go in the lineup.

 

If you don't put in a lineup by Sunday noon, then the previous week's lineup is used. This player changed several players from the previous week's lineup and actually submitted one that didn't include Gore. It's not a question of penalizing somebody for not playing Gore in a rainfest Thurs nite game. It's more of a "where do you draw the line" in allowing people to start players that already have stats for the week.

Edited by MikesVikes
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If you don't put in a lineup by Sunday noon, then the previous week's lineup is used. This player changed several players from the previous week's lineup and actually submitted on that didn't include Gore.

 

So if he didn't touch his lineup for the week, Gore would have been the starter.

 

The guy is either stupid or he's a liar. Either way, he's out of luck IMO.

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Here is the MFL rule. Lineup Submission Deadline: Players In Early Games Are Locked At Kickoff Of Their Game, Other Players Are Locked At The First Game Sunday

 

This is not contradictory. Grits, are you saying that if you don't have any lineup entered on Thursday that you are mandated to use last week's lineup? The rule is that those early game players are no longer available to start while Sunday players still are. The person put in a lineup on Saturday and Gore has a "grayed out" box beside his name because he's a no go in the lineup.

 

 

One of your statements "The rules are that players in early games are locked and you can change your other lineup until the first game on Sunday." can be intrepreted in two ways.

 

1) Players from the previous week are locked as staters/bench players according to their previous week as a starter as soon as their NFL game kicks off regardless of whether or not an owner has submitted a lineup. An owner's ENTIRE lineup from the previous week is not locked in, just the individual players from any game that has kicked off.

2) Players from the previous week are locked OUT and can NOT be started if an owner has not submitted a lineup prior to the kickoff of the game, even if said player(s) was/were started in the previous week.

 

Your second statement "If you guys want to start players from Thursday games, put in a lineup before gametime on Thursday. Any other players that don't play on Thursday or Saturday can be changed out of your lineup until Noon, Sunday." supports number 2 above, but clearly not number 1.

 

The problem here is that it is not clear what happens when an owner fails to submit a lineup.

 

Question: What happens if a owner fails to submit a lineup until after Sunday noon? Are his starters locked in from the previous week? This would support number 1 above.

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Kickoff - All players are locked at scheduled kickoff time for first game of the week

Early - Players in early games are locked at kickoff of their game, other players are locked Sunday at 1PM ET

Gametime - Players are locked at scheduled kickoff of their game

Calendar - As specified on the league calendar

 

You guys seem to be referring to the Kickoff option for lineup submission. We use the "Early" rule.

 

Above are the 4 different lineup rule options available.

Edited by MikesVikes
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Kickoff - All players are locked at scheduled kickoff time for first game of the week

Early - Players in early games are locked at kickoff of their game, other players are locked Sunday at 1PM ET

Gametime - Players are locked at scheduled kickoff of their game

Calendar - As specified on the league calendar

 

You guys seem to be referring to the Kickoff option for lineup submission. We use the "Early" rule.

 

 

If an owner doesn't submit a lineup until after noon on Sunday does "all players are locked at scheduled kickoff time" mean an owners lineup from the previous week is locked in ... or does it mean all players from the early games are locked out?

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Question: What happens if a owner fails to submit a lineup until after Sunday noon? Are his starters locked in from the previous week? This would support number 1 above.

 

Yes. If he doesn't submit a lineup by Sunday noon, then the previous week's lineup will be used. I see what your saying Grits.

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Yes. If he doesn't submit a lineup by Sunday noon, then the previous week's lineup will be used. I see what your saying Grits.

 

 

Thus the conflict in your rules.

 

You have a rule that locks in a players start/bench status from the previous week after the kickoff of their game if an owner has not submitted a line up.

 

You have a rule that states owners must submit a lineup with players from the early games.

 

Clearly you need to clear this up for next year.

 

So looking at this issue with the rules in place ... this particular owner did not submit a lineup until after the Thursday game and then when a lineup was submitted on Saturday it did not include the Thursday player (Gore). Furthermore the owner made no attempt to contact a commissioner or the league specifying that his intention was for Gore to start, rather he submitted a lineup with Dillon NOT Gore. After the dust settled when he determined that it was more beneficial to his team had he been REQUIRED to carry Gore forward he raised the issue.

 

I would rule that Dillon is in his lineup. Rules specify that players in early games have to be specifically started prior to their game's kickoff. This owner did NOT start Gore before his game. Yes, there is a rule that specifies that once the first Sunday game has kicked off that an owners lineup from the previous week is carried forward largely because by Sunday a lineup is required prior to all the games. Sunday kickoff is DIFFERENT than early game kick offs. Furthermore the owner specifically started a complete lineup on Saturday that did not include Gore and made no comment to the commissioner or league about wanting to start Gore. He can not communicate to the league that his intention was to start Gore when A. he missed the early game deadline and B. he is communicating AFTER THE GAMES ARE OVER. The only way I could see he could have Gore in his lineup at this point is if he had NOT submitted a lineup at all and his ENTIRE lineup from the previous week was carried forward. When he submitted a lineup on Saturday the carry foward option was invalidated.

 

Sorry he is SOL.

Edited by Grits and Shins
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You should NEVER EVER write any fantasy rules that say previous weeks lineups are inserted if no lineup is selected without exceptions.

 

You should create your rules to state simply that all pre-Sunday players MUST BE designated and that "previous week" rules do NOT APPLY.

 

Basically, if you go by that previous week non-sense you could watch a couple early week games and if your guy doesn't get off just select a lineup, but if he does get off then don't do anything and take his numbers. By this point in the season you are probably pretty much set with your core.

 

In my view, your rules are not well-written as someone has already pointed out the ambiguity in them. We allow for any lineup decisions to be made prior to any player's game (basically, you can change the status of ANY player so long as his game has NOT started). We do have a previous lineup rule, whereas, if someone fails to insert they get previous week's lineup, but that EXCLUDES any pre-Sunday games. It has worked out great for our league and there have been no problems.

 

Not to question this dude's credibility, but changing lineups "just to see" is bs and being that it was a playoff week it is incumbent on that guy (the owner) to make sure all his ducks are in a row. We've played our league using the MFL website for about 5 years now and it has been an excellent site...we had one guy who said the site didn't take his lineup submission, but none of us really believed his story.

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I have never played in a league on MFL. Am I understanding correct that you have to actually submit a lineup on MFL rather than just designate a player's status(ie Sportsline)?

 

Either way, I guess this seems simple to me. If the owner wanted Gore in his lineup, he should have submitted a lineup including Gore as a starter by kickoff thursday. Had he decided to make any changes to to the balance of his lineup after thursday, he should be allowed up until kickoff of those player's games.

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I have never played in a league on MFL. Am I understanding correct that you have to actually submit a lineup on MFL rather than just designate a player's status(ie Sportsline)?

 

 

Depends on how the commish sets up the league. Great thing about MFL is that it is fully customizable.

 

IMO, it sounds like this particular league has rules that a lineup is carried over if none is submitted by Sunday, but that a lineup must be submitted before the early games to include the early players, two potentially contradictory settings as Grits has noted.

 

For future reference, one easy way to alleviate this problem is to select the setting that the previous week's lineup is copied over as soon as the previous Monday Night Game is over, this way, the early game players are locked in or out come their kickoff based on the previous week's designation, rather than being locked out if an owner wishes to change any other part of their lineup after the early games have begun but before the lineup deadline.

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Gore should have been locked into his lineup. If Gore had scored zero points Thursday night, would anyone have allowed him to switchGore out with Dillon after the fact? I doubt it. Whether he actively went in and designated Gore as the starter or Gore was just automatically started because of his previous week's status, Gore was in his lineup for Thursday and should not have been optional any time thereafter.

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Gore should have been locked into his lineup. If Gore had scored zero points Thursday night, would anyone have allowed him to switchGore out with Dillon after the fact? I doubt it. Whether he actively went in and designated Gore as the starter or Gore was just automatically started because of his previous week's status, Gore was in his lineup for Thursday and should not have been optional any time thereafter.

 

 

Well, some leagues do state you must designate a player a starter or they are benched for the week, others, that the players previous weeks designation is locked in at the time of the players game (for early games). Obviously some slight differences for every league, but that is the jist of it for most leagues regarding early games.

 

Based on the rule quoted "If you guys want to start players from Thursday games, put in a lineup before gametime on Thursday. Any other players that don't play on Thursday or Saturday can be changed out of your lineup until Noon, Sunday.", and the fact that this owner did not submit a lineup including Gore prior to his game on Thursday, though did make a change to it prior to the deadline on Sunday, thus negating any carrying over of the previous week's lineup clause, it is pretty clear that Gore should not be allowed into the lineup.

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There are two setup options that will effect how a player's status is determined for the games

 

Under For Commissioners > Setup > Transactions Setup > Weekly Lineup Setup

 

Lineup Submission Deadline:

Kickoff - All players are locked at scheduled kickoff time for first game of the week

Early - Players in early games are locked at kickoff of their game, other players are locked Sunday at 1PM ET

Gametime - Players are locked at scheduled kickoff of their game

Calendar - As specified on the league calendar

 

Are Partial Lineups Allowed? Use the system rules for deciding if partial lineups are allowed or not.

Yes, partial lineups are always allowed.

No, partial lineups are never allowed.

 

 

Under For Commissioners > Setup > Players and Rosters > Starting Lineup Setup

 

Copy Previous Week's Starters For Franchises Without Lineups:

As Soon As The Previous Week's Final Results Are Available

As Soon As Preliminary (Thursday, Saturday and Sunday) Results Are Available

As Soon As Final (Monday) Results Are Available

 

The first setup option determines whether a players status can be changed, regardless of whether he is in or out of a lineup.

 

The second option determines if an automatic lineup will be submitted and if so, when.

 

The combination of these rules makes all the difference. You have already said that you have the first item set to Early. If I had to take an educated guess I'd say you are definately not using "As soon as the previous Week's results are final".

 

The result of that combination is that you have a team that did not submit a lineup before Thursday's game. Since the system does not carry the lineup over, any players who were in the Thursday game become locked and can not be used when a lineup is finally submitted.

 

If you want players from the previous weeks lineup to be autmatically carried over change the option to "As soon as the previous Week's results are final" With the option set this way, Gore would have been locked into the starting lineup once his game started. This would give you a setup that more closely emulates what CBS, Yahoo, ESPN do with an "active" and "bench" players.

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Well, some leagues do state you must designate a player a starter or they are benched for the week, others, that the players previous weeks designation is locked in at the time of the players game (for early games). Obviously some slight differences for every league, but that is the jist of it for most leagues regarding early games.

 

Based on the rule quoted "If you guys want to start players from Thursday games, put in a lineup before gametime on Thursday. Any other players that don't play on Thursday or Saturday can be changed out of your lineup until Noon, Sunday.", and the fact that this owner did not submit a lineup including Gore prior to his game on Thursday, though did make a change to it prior to the deadline on Sunday, thus negating any carrying over of the previous week's lineup clause, it is pretty clear that Gore should not be allowed into the lineup.

 

 

 

Yeah, you might be right... the wording is pretty specific about putting in a lineup. I don't know now. I'm cornfused. :D

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Gore should not have locked into his lineup. He submitted a lineup (with 3 changes) after the THursday game. As soon as he submitted a lineup, his option of using last week's lineup went down the tubes. The software reads whether an owner didn't submit a lineup after the week's games are over and no changes were made.

 

In any case, anyone in the playoffs who doesn't submit a lineup in due time, and doesn't put in one of their stud RBs before the game goes off, deserves what they get. Freakin' nannies in here. He screwed the pooch - he needs to reap the consequences. Maybe he'll pay a little closer attention next year if he makes the playoffs.

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Gore should not have locked into his lineup. He submitted a lineup (with 3 changes) after the THursday game. As soon as he submitted a lineup, his option of using last week's lineup went down the tubes. The software reads whether an owner didn't submit a lineup after the week's games are over and no changes were made.

 

 

Thus my response (#18). Depends on your league setup, but clearly from the description in the OP and the subsequent clarifications on the rules, Gore should not be allowed in the lineup.

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The way I see it a player is not locked into your lineup if you fail to submit a lineup on Thursday. The player is locked out. You are able to submit a lineup until the first game on Sunday. By doing so, you have reduced the option of playing players that have already played for the week and already have stats. There have been several postings about what kind of league do people play in where you have to have your lineup in by Thursday. Not many require this and none that I've ever played in.

 

Many leagues use the previous week's lineup in situations to cover an owner that doesn't submit one for the current week. This is not something our league has had a problem with in the past as far as having someone play a loophole with.

 

In this case the owner wanted to play Gore but didn't think about putting in a lineup until Saturday. Of course he wasn't able to submit a lineup with Gore in it. There's no rule in our league that says you will be forced to use last week's lineup if you forgot to submit a Thursday player in time to use him. It's not like you are locked into using him. It's more like you didn't put in a lineup in time to use him and he's locked out.

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