PantherDave Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 So, CD, if the Saints do go on and win the SB? Will you be convinced hook,line and sinker? #1-Post Katrina #2-The feeble NFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 We haven't even made it to the Superbowl and already the excuses are beginning to mount. I've heard this bs all season. Let us have our day in the sun and for once try not to taint it with the hints of conspiricy. After all the years of being dubbed the perennial losers of the NFL we deserve at least that. This is a damn good football team we have, nothing more, nothing less. This post is not anti-Saints, believe me. I absolutely love that team and hope they make it. I just want to see clean football without all the controversy we have seen lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 So, CD, if the Saints do go on and win the SB? Will you be convinced hook,line and sinker? #1-Post Katrina #2-The feeble NFC Once again, this is not an anti-Saints issue, and nowhere in my post did I say anything bad about the Saints. And this is a theory, not fact. And the point is up for discussion. As I get older I just get tired of questionable issues permeating sports, when as a youngster I thought sports were all about the competition on the field, and the purity of simple man vs. man. I see now that money drives everything, and to think that sports is immune from the power of money is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 For the record, I did not see/read any anti-Saints rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 This post is not anti-Saints, believe me. I absolutely love that team and hope they make it. I just want to see clean football without all the controversy we have seen lately. But you have nothing to base this theory on. There has been no questionable calls, that I can recall, that have been decisive factors in any of our games. That being the case, where would you get this idea and why are you bringing it up before the games are even played? For some reason this thread has me picturing you watching the game and in the back of your mind just waiting for a questionable call in the Saints favor and you saying, "see, I knew there was a conspiricy. This only confirms it for me." Rather than it just being a bad call period. Then if it doesn't happen Saturday & the Saints advance then you'll be doing the same in the NFC Championship and again if we advance to the Superbowl. What bothers me is that I've heard this talk all season long. There have even been articles written about it. The spectre of conspiricy already hangs over the heads of the Saints and there's no basis for it whatsoever other than the fact that the leagues whipping boy is finally doing some whipping of his own for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantherDave Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) But you have nothing to base this theory on. There has been no questionable calls, that I can recall, that have been decisive factors in any of our games. That being the case, where would you get this idea and why are you bringing it up before the games are even played? For some reason this thread has me picturing you watching the game and in the back of your mind just waiting for a questionable call in the Saints favor and you saying, "see, I knew there was a conspiricy. This only confirms it for me." Rather than it just being a bad call period. Then if it doesn't happen Saturday & the Saints advance then you'll be doing the same in the NFC Championship and again if we advance to the Superbowl. What bothers me is that I've heard this talk all season long. There have even been articles written about it. The spectre of conspiricy already hangs over the heads of the Saints and there's no basis for it whatsoever other than the fact that the leagues whipping boy is finally doing some whipping of his own for a change. Just goes to show the Rhichardson, Fox and Hurney run a clean organiazation-and look what it got us, an 8-8 record and bushel of tee times . Edited January 12, 2007 by PantherDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 What bothers me is that I've heard this talk all season long. There have even been articles written about it. The spectre of conspiricy already hangs over the heads of the Saints and there's no basis for it whatsoever other than the fact that the leagues whipping boy is finally doing some whipping of his own for a change. I haven't seen a lot of this as the season has gone on. I guess one could make the case the Reggie Bush was Houston's gift to New Orleans, but otherwise I think most people believe that New Orleans got to where they are on grit, determination, and stellar play. BUT, I also think that people would not be surprised to see the Saints get a somewhat under the radar 10 fingers to the Lombardi trophy. Only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAYER Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 But you have nothing to base this theory on. There has been no questionable calls, that I can recall, that have been decisive factors in any of our games. That being the case, where would you get this idea and why are you bringing it up before the games are even played? For some reason this thread has me picturing you watching the game and in the back of your mind just waiting for a questionable call in the Saints favor and you saying, "see, I knew there was a conspiricy. This only confirms it for me." Rather than it just being a bad call period. Then if it doesn't happen Saturday & the Saints advance then you'll be doing the same in the NFC Championship and again if we advance to the Superbowl. What bothers me is that I've heard this talk all season long. There have even been articles written about it. The spectre of conspiricy already hangs over the heads of the Saints and there's no basis for it whatsoever other than the fact that the leagues whipping boy is finally doing some whipping of his own for a change. I'm basing it on what I have seen in other games over time (see last years Super Bowl). If you have heard this talk all season, then direct your anger at those who have written about it all season. I just throw this theory out there because the possibility MAY exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I'm basing it on what I have seen in other games over time (see last years Super Bowl). If you have heard this talk all season, then direct your anger at those who have written about it all season. I just throw this theory out there because the possibility MAY exist. No worries CD, I'm not directing any anger anywhere. I just hate to see what my team has done this year be tainted in any way and maybe not being in this position that often in my life makes me a little less used to the criticism that could come with victory. I know any real fan can certainly understand & respect that as I'm sure you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I'm a little confused by the opening post - seems you start out by by saying that gambling drives sports, and that from a conspiracist's (is that a word?), point of view it could drive some bad officiating. But how does this translate into an agenda to help out the Saints? I understand the whole notion of the feel-good post-Katrina stroy, but how do gambling interests benefit from the Saints winning? I think I'm missing something here. I don't but the theory in the slightest, I think the NFL is way too big and way too succesful to jeopardize its product with something like this. And it also seems to me that the league goes to extraordinary lengths with instant replay to insure they get the calls right whenever possible. But I respect the fact that you're posting this before the game rather than after, will be interesting to see if anything questionable happens in the Saints/Eagles game. Even if it does, though, I don't buy the notion of a hidden agenda. Too many people would have to be in on it, and if enough people were in on it then you'd never be able to keep a lid on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockerbraves Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I've officiated lots of sporting events and to be truthful if I ever found myself bias towards a particular team believe it or not the toss up calls usually went against them just so I wouldn't feel like I influenced the game. Now dang it, you got me thinking the Saints will get the raw end of the calls this Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMRogers Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Something went awry here - the post was about gambling driving results on teh field (and that has happened in all sports at one point or another, mostly in many years past, but a few college issues somewhat recently), but then turned into a : NFL drives results to better situate the NFL as an "american leader" - Patriots post 9/11 (although a NY team would have been more suitable) / steelers last year / saints now. Does gambling drive NFL calls - categorically I'll state no. The NFL's billions (and I'd almost venture to truly say trillions) annual revenue generation wouldn't be touched by a game going on way or the other. (and if it was, the Seahawks would have covered) Does the NFL drive NFL calls/results a certain way. Now that's a different question - but i'll also state no - again, a trillion dollars a year (i know it sounds liek a lot - but add up everything involved, from the obvious tv rights to the trickle down beer sales at the local bars on sunday, and i bet the NFL can claim a trillion annual revenue generation) that could be called into question by one ref who decides he needs to write a book about how Tags would come into the ref locker room before games and hint about things? Not happening. As someone stated - bad calls happen, and they happen multiple ways and mostly offset in the end. I've actually never seen a game that the team that played much better could point at several calls and say : we won, but those bad calls beat us (including the SB - maybe there were some bad calls, but Seattle didn't beat Pit regardless). One call at the end might have been the last play, but never the real reason a team won. In saying all that, if the Saints win this week, it was fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) I'm a little confused by the opening post - seems you start out by by saying that gambling drives sports, and that from a conspiracist's (is that a word?), point of view it could drive some bad officiating. But how does this translate into an agenda to help out the Saints? I understand the whole notion of the feel-good post-Katrina stroy, but how do gambling interests benefit from the Saints winning? I think I'm missing something here. I don't but the theory in the slightest, I think the NFL is way too big and way too succesful to jeopardize its product with something like this. And it also seems to me that the league goes to extraordinary lengths with instant replay to insure they get the calls right whenever possible. But I respect the fact that you're posting this before the game rather than after, will be interesting to see if anything questionable happens in the Saints/Eagles game. Even if it does, though, I don't buy the notion of a hidden agenda. Too many people would have to be in on it, and if enough people were in on it then you'd never be able to keep a lid on it. My point was that you could make a case for both situations and potential collaboration between professional sports and gambling. This isn't just directed at the NFL, I just use it as a study on this MB because this is a football board. Edited January 12, 2007 by Chief Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 it sure looked like Dallas threw the game they played against the Saints.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerMurf Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 And we can all agree the Steelers benefitted tremendously from questionable calls. Including the Indy game. No, you got that backwards there buddy. Pittsburgh even got an apology about the blown Troy P. INT. I don't think anyone, even Indy fans would say Pittsburgh benefitted from questionable calls. Indy got the benefit on even more than just the overruled INT that would have sealed the game. What are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I really do have a hard time believing conspiracy theories, NBA, NFL, MLB...any sport really. If they are rigged, it has to be the most elaborate complex secret ever contrived, and kept hidden by thousands of players over years and years. Doesn't have to be complex. Match fixing for gambling needs only a few games in each season and one or two refs. I don't think it would work in the NFL with seven officials but it sure works in soccer with just three and only one of them with real influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 No worries CD, I'm not directing any anger anywhere. I just hate to see what my team has done this year be tainted in any way and maybe not being in this position that often in my life makes me a little less used to the criticism that could come with victory. I know any real fan can certainly understand & respect that as I'm sure you do. I'm pretty sure that's why Steelers fans get so defensive when talking about the subject of money-driven calls. But you are right, so far there is no reason to think the Saints record is tainted or given to them by questionable calls. It hasn't. They've won games because they are a good team. The most important thing, I believe, is to understand none of these theories are directed at any one team or any one organization. If by chance stuff does happen like this behind closed doors, then there is nothing we can do about it except hope things swing in the direction of our favorite team. One thing is for sure, and that is that it's obvious more than one individual is getting the sense that the game as we know it might not be as legit as we thought it was. Maybe it's the competitive "I wish my team won" spirit behind the questioning of the legitimacy of the game, or maybe it's because some calls really do look questionable. Either way, I think it's worth bringing up and discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Doesn't have to be complex. Match fixing for gambling needs only a few games in each season and one or two refs. I don't think it would work in the NFL with seven officials but it sure works in soccer with just three and only one of them with real influence. It works in Ice Skating, remember back to the olympics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 The most important thing, I believe, is to understand none of these theories are directed at any one team or any one organization. If by chance stuff does happen like this behind closed doors, then there is nothing we can do about it except hope things swing in the direction of our favorite team. Good way to sum it up. I for one hope that this stuff doesn't occur. But sometimes you watch a game and say to yourself: "Are the officials watching the same game? That call was so obvious" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 The most important thing, I believe, is to understand none of these theories are directed at any one team or any one organization. If by chance stuff does happen like this behind closed doors, then there is nothing we can do about it except hope things swing in the direction of our favorite team. See, that's one reason it bothers me so much. If they have to cheat to win then I would rather stay the lowly Saints. What good is a victory if you know you didn't earn it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 It works in Ice Skating, remember back to the olympics? Or any sport that rests in the hands of judges, boxing, for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Next Generation Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 See, that's one reason it bothers me so much. If they have to cheat to win then I would rather stay the lowly Saints. What good is a victory if you know you didn't earn it? Don't worry, refs help or no, your Saints and their 1-6 playoff record (after tomorrow) will still keep them lowly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrunt Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 An interesting article I found in the NFL.com news archive.. Rich, I know I wrote earlier and complained about the officiating but I found some rules that it hadn't know before. Are these correct? 1. The officials for playoff games are chosen from the fathers of the home team. 2. Upon a completed pass in the end zone the defender has 5 seconds to throw a fit, after which a penalty can be called. 3. If a player is tackled short of the end zone he then has 5 seconds to extend the ball across the goal line. At which time the official will be woken up and a touchdown will be called. 4. If the favorite team is in danger of losing due to a score, a "holding" call may be used to negate it. 5. Officials have the right to call random penalties. Such as "blocking below the waist" on a tackle. 6. In fine print under all NFL logos it says "sports entertainment" Thanks I have no idea if all of the above are correct, but the interesting one is the last one, which sort of goes well with any conspiracy theorists. ....Think about it, you're the NFL and you have to make all the Super Bowl winning merchandise before the big game and you have to destroy all the losing teams merchandise after the game. With all the polls on the websites and registries of favorite teams, the NFL knows exactly what percentages of its fans like what teams. There is an obvious fan differential between the Seahawks and Steelers. Where would you want to cut your losses? That's a lot of money the NFL has already made a commitment with, a lot of lost money if a certain team wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD6405 Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 I don't know about you guys, but I heard they are rigging the Saints games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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