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Foodies (bier, detlef, etc)


MojoMan
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http://www.chowhound.com

 

I consider myself a foodie but those people take it too far and their board moderators are a bunch of va jay jays. If you say something the least bit critical about a post, they delete it and block your access to that thread.

 

On the other hand, I have gotten some pretty good restaurant suggestions.

Edited by MojoMan
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I'm an avid poster on chowhound on the South board. I go by detlefchef. I think it's a pretty useful board and most people do know their stuff. At the same time, a lot of people are insanely cheap and seem to want the greatest food they've ever tasted for $10 or less

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Yeah but some of the posters make some pretty stupid comments and ask dumb questions e.g. "Food Network has gone downhill!," "What's the best meal you ever ate?," or "What do I do with a mango?" C'mon people!

 

On here, they would get skewered (I'd know; I've posted some stupid stuff and gotten flamed).

 

Do you know why things are so nicey nice over there? Is there a religious affiliation or something?

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Chowhound moderates their forums to a fault IMO. They are super anal about not only making sure that people stay on topic but that nobody attacks anyone. Beyond that, they are so hyper concerned about restaurants using their site to hype themselves, that they pretty much gun any thread from the industry that challenges an attack on a place. Even if the person is not defending his own place.

 

I've actually gone toe to toe with the head of the board because I thought people were saying unfair things about a restaurant (not mine BTW) and challenged them. Their facts were flat out wrong. Regardless, my post was deleted and their remained. When I challenged the moderators their first response was that they assumed I was from the restaurant in question. When I told them 1) I wasn't and 2) It shouldn't matter because the attack was unfair and factually inaccurate so even if I was, I should be able to challenge it.

 

They replied. "This is not an industry hype machine, this is a consumer driven website and I defend the consumer even when he is wrong. The consumer has precious little voice in this world"

 

Then I went off. "Precious little voice?!" Are you freaking kidding me? There are probably over 100 websites that are exclusively dedicated to unqualified consumer reports. whatever. You brought up a sore subject.

 

FWIW, the hounds themselves are typically very good to me. I've got one or two haters out there, but I've gotten a lot of good run on that site. Go to the south board and do a search on jujube.

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Hmmmm.

 

jujube sounds like a very interesting restaurant detlef. Mainly Asian/Chinese with a little American?

 

What's the decor like? Price range?

 

I don't get down to the Triangle often but if I do I'll check it out.

 

Your customers seem very happy. Congrats :D

Edited by MojoMan
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Hmmmm.

 

jujube sounds like a very interesting restaurant detlef. Mainly Asian/Chinese with a little American?

 

What's the decor like? Price range?

 

I don't get down to the Triangle often but if I do I'll check it out.

 

Your customers seem very happy. Congrats :D

 

You can see some photos on our rather poor website Jujube

 

The menus and price point is on there as well.

 

We call the food. Almost Asian. Some dishes are pretty much classic other are inspired by Chinese and Vietnamese but with plenty of modern American sensiblities woven in.

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just a quick FYI--there is a minor formatting problem with the prices on your wine list (starting with beer)

 

Thanks for the heads up. One of several "minor" issues I have with that damned site. We're currently shopping for a new webmaster.

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i know a good one if you are interested

 

Sure. I'm honestly not looking for the greatest website of all time. Simply something clean, professional, yet conveying a sense of whimsy and style. I'd also like it set up so I can change the menus and post special events.

 

So far, all I've found is crap like I've got or people wanting to build something crazy for several thousand dollars.

 

We're not a web-based business, so I don't want to spend more on my website than I did on any of my cooking equipment, refrigeration, or any other marketing channel.

 

Thanks.

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Sure. I'm honestly not looking for the greatest website of all time. Simply something clean, professional, yet conveying a sense of whimsy and style. I'd also like it set up so I can change the menus and post special events.

 

So far, all I've found is crap like I've got or people wanting to build something crazy for several thousand dollars.

 

We're not a web-based business, so I don't want to spend more on my website than I did on any of my cooking equipment, refrigeration, or any other marketing channel.

 

Thanks.

 

he can do anything you want .... he will also host the site etc.... ill shoot him an email and see how busy he is..

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I've gone to eGullet forums in the past for good restaurant postings.

 

:D

 

Never tried chowhound.

 

I'm not a foodie, but I do like to go out to eat and drink and do it frequently.

 

I actually prefer egullet to chowhound on several levels. To begin with, up until recently, chowhound had this horribly archane software that made using it very frustrating. egullet has a format like that of the huddle that I found vastly superior. Beyond that, egullet doesn't take the advesarial stance towards those in the industry and actually promotes dialog between diners and restaurateurs. Chowhound used to claim they did but really didn't. Now they don't even claim to.

 

The problem is, most of the boards are not nearly as well used as chowhound. For instance, here in the south, chowhound probably gets 15-20 posts per day. Egullet will go days without any new posts. I have both bookmarked and check them daily. Both to scout out places to eat and to get a read on what people are saying about my place.

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The problem is, most of the boards are not nearly as well used as chowhound. For instance, here in the south, chowhound probably gets 15-20 posts per day. Egullet will go days without any new posts. I have both bookmarked and check them daily. Both to scout out places to eat and to get a read on what people are saying about my place.

 

 

I totally agree. I mostly use it for dining in NYC and that board usually gets many posts each day.

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I have concluded that chowhound sucks. They don't seem to know whom their core users are.

 

There seems to be a trimodal population there.

 

Subpopulation 1: Hard core foodies who search out good food, regardless of whether it is renowned or not. Will argue about insignificant crap like what's the best marshmallow. According to the FAQ, this is the intended population.

 

Subpopulation 2: Housewives with a lot of time on their hands, very little food knowledge, and little imagination or insight. These people post early and often about mundane crap like "I bought two mangoes, what do I do with them?" or "Why do people like Spam?" or "I don't like rice."

 

Subpopulation 3: People who enjoy good food and eat out a lot and want to share info about restaurants.

 

They tend to hate chains [which, by definition, can never be as great as a really great restaurant but frequently aren't as bad either (exception-Red Lobster)]. At chowhound, they also have a lot of ghey inside terms like "True Confessions" for when they're admitting to something like liking Hershey's Chocolate Syrup or a similar ordinary product. Personally, when I think about "True Confessions," I think the discussion is going to be of prurient interest. Oh yeah...their Holier-than-God attitude toward "healthy" food has gotten on my nerves.

 

Many of the posters over there suck. To be fair, they have some good posters but the threads/posters seem to lack the breadth of knowledge and expertise regarding "off-specialty" topics that we have at the Huddle.

 

I will try egullet.

Edited by MojoMan
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I have concluded that chowhound sucks. They don't seem to know whom their core users are.

 

There seems to be a trimodal population there.

 

Subpopulation 1: Hard core foodies who search out good food, regardless of whether it is renowned or not. Will argue about insignificant crap like what's the best marshmallow. According to the FAQ, this is the intended population.

 

Subpopulation 2: Housewives with a lot of time on their hands, very little food knowledge, and little imagination or insight. These people post early and often about mundane crap like "I bought two mangoes, what do I do with them?" or "Why do people like Spam?" or "I don't like rice."

 

Subpopulation 3: People who enjoy good food and eat out a lot and want to share info about restaurants.

 

They tend to hate chains [which, by definition, can never be as great as a really great restaurant but frequently aren't as bad either (exception-Red Lobster)]. At chowhound, they also have a lot of ghey inside terms like "True Confessions" for when they're admitting to something like liking Hershey's Chocolate Syrup or a similar ordinary product. Personally, when I think about "True Confessions," I think the discussion is going to be of prurient interest. Oh yeah...their Holier-than-God attitude toward "healthy" food has gotten on my nerves.

 

Many of the posters over there suck. To be fair, they have some good posters but the threads/posters seem to lack the breadth of knowledge and expertise regarding "off-specialty" topics that we have at the Huddle.

 

I will try egullet.

 

Add subpopulation #4 and you've pretty much nailed it.

 

That being, people who are looking for the meal of a lifetime for $5 or less. I've gotten into it on more than one occasion with these momos about that. One guy was describing a little Mexican joint that served breakfast. He was describing a plate of freshly made tortillas, eggs, and salsa and commented that it was delicious and satisfying but at $5 was "a bit steep". A bit steep? For a plate of food that you found delicious and satisfying? If I can sit down, be fed something "delicious and satisfying" and have someone clean up after me for $5, I'm freaking there.

 

One of these days, people are going to have to get over the fact that ethnic families should martyr themselves so people who make a lot more jack then them can get amazing food for nothing. You see it all the time. People don't think twice about spending $10-$12 for a plate of Italian pasta because, for some reason, that version of ethnic food has been established as something worthy of your money. Some little Thai place tries to charge the same for pad thai and the hounds start freaking out. "I can get pad thai in Bangkok for $1! Why should I pay $10 here?"

 

Mind you, I'm not bent about this because I take any grief in this regard. Because I've managed to position my place as more of a fine dining and less of an ethnic place, I tend to get a free pass and my food is often actually considered a good value by these same people.

 

I'm just pissed because I hate hearing people who've got money pissing and moaning about some poor Mexican dude who's trying to scrape out a living serving eggs at $5 a plate as being "a bit steep". The last thing I ever think when I walk into a place like that is, "Wow, this guy is really getting over on me".

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Well said Detlef. I was at my favorite little thai place the other day that's ran by a family and I overheard some guy complaining about paying 6.50 for his pad thai. This was AFTER they brought out their customary free appetizers.

 

This place is great, a grandmother and her daughter prepare all of the food and it's excellent. The grandmother comes around and serves up little appetizers for you for free while you're waiting for your food. I had a question about a dish once and she went back into the kitchen and prepared a small plate for me to try. You won't get that at most places.

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Well said Detlef. I was at my favorite little thai place the other day that's ran by a family and I overheard some guy complaining about paying 6.50 for his pad thai. This was AFTER they brought out their customary free appetizers.

 

 

Dude needs to have his ass kicked.

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I was reading a few threads over there and it seemed a little over the top at times.

 

Let me know how egullet turns out.

 

 

twiley,

 

Egullet is just as detlef and justin described. The quality of the posters and discourse is better (but not as good as the Huddle) although the posting activity is very low compared to Chowhound.

 

detlef,

 

I got into it a little with the mods over there too. Since they worry so dang much about insulting anyone else, I took action when I noticed a post that contained the word "Jap" in it. It said something like..."I need a restaurant recommendation. I like Thai, Jap, Lebanese...etc." So I reported it. Nothing happened. Then, I wrote a post in the thread blasting the guy who wrote the post with the "offensive" term. I wrote something like why does the "cumdrinker" original poster get to use a racial slur and why did Chowhound do nothing after I reported the use of the slur.

 

That got their attention. They edited "Jap" to "Japanese." They then sent me an informative email (see below).

 

Here is the string of emails (in chronological order so you can follow more easily).

 

INITIAL EMAIL FROM CHOWHOUND TO MOJOMAN:

 

Hi mojoman, you've been sent the following by a Chowhound moderator:

 

Our policy on vulgarity, obscenity, and general offensiveness in otherwise chow-ful postings is that anything is ok so long as it's not said in anger or is clearly intended to stir up trouble. Our role as moderators is not to shield all users from anything they might find offensive. If we tried to do so, there'd be literally no end to it, because many different people are offended by many different things. Please, just ignore things you don't like--or, if you feel that they're directed at a specific Chowhound, use the 'report' feature to bring them to our attention--don't post about them on the boards.

 

In that vein, your personal attacks on other Chowhounds are unacceptable. Any further posts along those lines and we'll have to ask you to find another forum to post in.

 

--

JAS

Chowhound.com

For Those Who Live to Eat

 

HERE'S MY RESPONSE:

 

Please block my access then. I have spent too much time on chowhound anyway because I am drawn to it with a morbid fascination. Some of your posters are so bad as to evoke incredulity on my part.

 

As good as some of the posters are, you have a large population of "bad" posters who post frequently with stupid, redundant subjects like "What's the best vegetable you ever ate?" etc.

 

Your insistence upon excessive civility provides no way to curb this inappropriate, clueless behavior by the more productive and insightful members of your community. It makes the board boring and low quality because you have to sort through so much garbage to find any worthwhile information.

 

NO RESPONSE SO I SHOT THIS ADDITIONAL EMAIL TO THE CH MODERATOR

 

One more thing.

 

Since "Jap" is not really targeted at any single person, why did you finally edit andy's post (that contained the word)? I reported the use of the slur...nothing happened for several hours. Only after I posted a nasty response in the thread did something happen.

 

In comparison, when I've posted recommending that some of your less intelligent posters avail themselves of the "Search" function, you have removed my posts within a few minutes.

 

Does Chowhound condone the use of racial epiphets since they're not targeted at any one Chowhounder?

 

CHOWHOUND FINALLY RESPONDS:

 

We don't condone the use of racial epithets, but as we noted earlier,

we don't moderate incidental use of offensive words when they're not

specifically intended to offend. Editing that post was a mistake made

by one of our Engineering Team, and against our policy of not editing

user's posts--we often remove them, but never change them. It should

not have happened, in response to a 'report' or an inappropriate

flaming on the board.

 

As requested, your account is now deactivated.

 

--

JAS

Chowhound.com

For those who live to eat

 

MOJOMAN RESPONDS

 

Wow. Chowhound board moderators are mind readers?

 

You can read andy's mind and know that his use of "Jap" in a post on your board was inadvertent? I think inadvertent would have been if he had typed "Japaneese" or "Jpanese" or some other kind of typographical error. Since I reported the use of this slur to you, in fact, you do condone the use of an offensive epithet since you said the editing of andy's post was a mistake.

 

On the other hand, if another poster (not me) suggests the use of the "Search" function for a frequently discussed subject like "Is Babbo any good?," you can discern that that is a deliberate slam of the original poster and you delete that post within minutes?

 

Hmmmm.

 

Chowhound is lousy in large part because of the crummy job you guys do in moderating the board. By not permitting the self-policing of worthless posters by other posters (this can be done without getting ugly or personal), the effect is to dilute the board content with the garbage that comprise at least half of the posts.

 

It is your board; you pay for it. If you want it to suck, go ahead and let it. However, posters like me pay for it in a small way too by patronizing your advertisers (I bought some personalized M&Ms via the link on your site).

 

Then again, maybe the "worst" posters are the ones who buy the most merchandise from your advertisers. That's good business on your part but you could have just been honest from the beginning instead of making the ridiculous conjecture that writing "Jap" was inadvertent.

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:D uhh....how could you possibly be offended by someone abbreviating "japanese" to "jap" when listing what kind of cuisine they like? that is like talking about wine and saying "i like cab and zin". i'm sorry but your whole angle there makes no sense to me at all.

 

maybe the mods there are real pr!cks, but as an objective observer of this particular exchange, i would have to point the assfinger on this one at you.

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:D uhh....how could you possibly be offended by someone abbreviating "japanese" to "jap" when listing what kind of cuisine they like? that is like talking about wine and saying "i like cab and zin". i'm sorry but your whole angle there makes no sense to me at all.

 

maybe the mods there are real pr!cks, but as an objective observer of this particular exchange, i would have to point the assfinger on this one at you.

 

 

I was not offended. However your "zin" and "cab" analogies are not accurate since neither "zin" nor "cab" are pejorative toward any ethnic/racial/religious/aberrant sexual orientation group (to the best of my knowledge).

 

I just wanted to make an issue out of the fact that they left what could be an innocent abbreviation OR a racial slur in a post yet they delete other posts that could be a dig at a stupid poster OR a piece of friendly advice.

 

It was just a way for me to try to make my point.

 

I don't deny acting the assfinger then but their assfingerism was contagious.

Edited by MojoMan
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:D uhh....how could you possibly be offended by someone abbreviating "japanese" to "jap" when listing what kind of cuisine they like? that is like talking about wine and saying "i like cab and zin". i'm sorry but your whole angle there makes no sense to me at all.

 

maybe the mods there are real pr!cks, but as an objective observer of this particular exchange, i would have to point the assfinger on this one at you.

 

Well, I for one find it amusing that Chowhound took the angle they did given the hyper vigilant manner in which they monitor the boards and the uber-sensitive nature they tend to take. Scolding someone for the use of "Jap" would seem right up their alley.

 

By and large, they're a bunch of hypocrites. At one point I accused them of censorship and they cringed at the implied agenda that comes with that notion. However, that's exactly what they do. Heaven forbid you express concern or frustration with their policies their Site talk board (which is allegedly essentially what it's there for), rather than answer you, they tend to just delete your post.

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