Saban didn't believe Culpepper was really hurt?

[Skrappy1]

Interesting article on Culpepper from the Sun Sentinel. Seems like Saban thought Culpepper's problem wasn't really his knee at all, but more his head and lack of dedication. If this is true, it's easier to see why Saban bailed on the 'Phins. I think it also makes his character look even more questionable since I believe he is the guy that decided on signing Culpepper over Brees. It's hard to respect a guy who makes a mess and then leaves without even attempting to help clean it up.

 

Culpepper is Cameron's top issue

 

What to do with Daunte Culpepper is the No. 1 issue facing Cam Cameron by such a wide margin you could stretch the English Channel between it and what comes next. That might be clear and obvious. What remains foggier is exactly what the Culpepper issue involves.

 

Publicly, everyone keeps pointing at Culpepper's surgically repaired knee last season to explain his problems at quarterback. Privately, as it turns out, Nick Saban felt the knee was fine and the real problem was further north on the anatomy chart, a Dolphins source says.

 

Saban wondered more about Culpepper's head. It wasn't just the decisions that Culpepper made on the field, holding the ball too long, taking a ridiculous number of sacks and unable to run an admittedly sagging offense before heading to the bench.

 

It was Prima Daunte stuff off the field, too. Not showing up at the Dolphins' news conference to announce his trade (Culpepper had promised the first interview to ESPN). Not studying defenses enough (which led to him holding the ball in confusion). Not adjusting at all to a lost step from surgery or age (which led to more confusion in the pocket).

 

Saban, remember, said for the first few weeks of the season that the knee wasn't a problem and Culpepper had to adapt his game some. That's how Saban really felt. But he changed his tune when Culpepper went on the shelf, either giving in to the groundswell about his knee or giving Culpepper a face-saving way out.

 

So this is where the Cameron Era starts and it's a doozy of an inheritance. The issue is simple: Do you cut Culpepper or keep him?

 

It's why Cameron was hired. Quarterbacks are his specialty. Developing Drew Brees and Philip Rivers in San Diego is what separated him from the other Dolphins candidates.

 

Jimmy Johnson, Dave Wannstedt and Saban all sunk to some degree with the Dolphins because of quarterbacks (in Jimmy's case because he and Dan Marino couldn't agree how the position should be run). So Cameron has to get this one right from the start.

 

One thing not in question is the salary cap. The Dolphins actually would save $1.3 million on next year's cap by releasing him, the Sun-Sentinel's Alex Marvez has reported.

 

So here are the questions: Is Culpepper's problem his knee or his head? Or is it his head because he was stressing about his knee? And will he work harder this year with a quarterback-intensive coach? Can a healthy Culpepper run Cameron's offense that has won with classical drop-back passers like Brees and Rivers?

 

Do you cut him and risk him winning somewhere else? Can you risk having him on the roster if you're not sure he's capable of starting?

 

And if not Culpepper, who?

 

The Dolphins' No. 9 pick would have given Matt Leinart or Jay Cutler last year. This year, there are only two franchise-type quarterbacks being discussed and both are expected to be gone by then.

 

Watch Cleo Lemon in all this. It seems a reach, considering Lemon played just six quarters to finish last season.

 

But Cameron coached Lemon in San Diego. And asked if Lemon could be a starter in Friday's news conference, Cameron talked him up in an interesting way.

 

"He has been a starter," Cameron said, noting the last game of this lost season. "Cleo Lemon, I'm pretty sure, unless someone breaks the record this year, was the first player we had [in San Diego] to go three consecutive years and never miss a workout.

 

"That tells you about Cleo Lemon because I think that's the first and most important thing a quarterback has to be -- the hardest worker in your organization."

 

Kudos to Lemon. And perhaps a message to Culpepper? When asked about Culpepper and the quarterback situation, Cameron didn't exactly give a full-body embrace.

 

"That's been my background, as you know, working with quarterbacks," he began. "I was a quarterback in college. There's no one formula for solving a quarterback situation. I will tell you this: I have tremendous respect for what Daunte Culpepper has done in the National Football League."

 

Respect is a good thing. Trust is a bigger one. What Cameron has to get right, what will define his era for better or worse, is whether Cameron trusts Culpepper enough to marry their football futures.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-hyd...la-sports-front

Edited January 21, 2007 by Skrappy1

[Randall]

In pre season Culpepper moved around pretty well, yet the Vikes wouldn't allow a doctor to inspect him before the trade. That shoulkd throw up red flags.

 

I doubt that Saban is dumb.

 

Privately? A Dolphins source? A good reporter would allow the target(Saban) to comment but this seems to be all one sided.

 

From what I saw Culpepper looked pretty good early in the season. His mobility did seem good, but what did doctors say back then? I'd like to see more details and not just un named sources. What are they afraid of with Saban gone?

[Savage Beatings]

In pre season Culpepper moved around pretty well, yet the Vikes wouldn't allow a doctor to inspect him before the trade. That shoulkd throw up red flags.

 

I doubt that Saban is dumb.

 

Privately? A Dolphins source? A good reporter would allow the target(Saban) to comment but this seems to be all one sided.

 

From what I saw Culpepper looked pretty good early in the season. His mobility did seem good, but what did doctors say back then? I'd like to see more details and not just un named sources. What are they afraid of with Saban gone?

 

 

The previous year Culpepper was about as perfect as a QB could be in the pre-season, but then the regular season started and he began the long descent into suckiness.

[Randall]

The previous year Culpepper was about as perfect as a QB could be in the pre-season, but then the regular season started and he began the long descent into suckiness.

 

 

 

That's true. That happened even before the knee injury. He acted pretty weird after Childress was hired too, only working out at that mini-mall in Florida. What do you think his problem was? The year before he looked good even when Moss was hurt. Was it all an illusion?

[Ursa Majoris]

If I was Cameron I would cut him without hesitation.

[Savage Beatings]

I think that Culpepper's problem is almost all mental. The Love Boat scandal split the Vikings locker room a lot more than I think was covered, and it also messed with Culpepper's personal life in a pretty serious way. Suddenly after already having had a couple of excellent seasons in the NFL, he found himself having to prove himself again to fellow teammates, coaches, fans and the media.

 

I think that hurt him, ticked him off, made him more than a little paranoid and 100% messed with his self-confidence. Some of the people that he had relied upon to support him in the past either were no longer around (Linehan, Moss) or just didn't have his back in his view.

 

So, he wanted a clean slate in Miami, but didn't realize that he would STILL have to prove himself down there too. I think that also totally infuriated him to be honest with you. He was expecting to be the unquestioned stud that he once was, regardless of his actions on or off the field. One of the big things about him while up in Minnesota, was that he listened to and was effected by all of the criticism that came from fans and the media. A professional athlete needs to be able to let that slide (because no matter how good you are, you will have critics).

 

On top of all of that, I honestly do think that he was rushed back from his injury too quickly. Even if he said and showed that he was physically doing all right, they should have milked the recovery for a while to allow him to learn the new offense and the new personnel as best as he could. But hey, if everyone including him, says that he's ready... who am I to say otherwise?

[CarryTheRock]

I was tihnking about this yesterday. With the new coach, what do homers think is going to happen with the QB situation?

[Outshined]

In pre season Culpepper moved around pretty well, yet the Vikes wouldn't allow a doctor to inspect him before the trade. That shoulkd throw up red flags.

 

 

 

 

Culpepper would not let anybody from the Vikings see him for the longest time while he was rehabbing in Florida. At some point he gave in. After the trade, he passed his physical - no way does a team give a way a second round pick (which was we drafted TJack) not knowing if he might ever play again.

[Outshined]

In addition to what Savage wrote I think Randy Moss made Daunte Culpepper. Just like Moss made Brad Johnson and Randall Cuningham probowlers. He made Jeff George, Gus Frerotte and Todd Bouman look like all pros. Moss would pull double and triple coverage all the time. Daunte did not have to read defenses - look for the open receiver or just throw to Moss when the safety came up to blitz. When Moss was traded, Culpepper was lost, he couldn't find the open receiver and held onto the ball too long. It was like he was a rookie all over again. The Vikings went 2-5 and then he got hurt. Losing Moss sure messed up his head.

 

Edit: If I were Cam, I would cut and start fresh...

Edited January 21, 2007 by Outshined

[Ursa Majoris]

In addition to what Savage wrote I think Randy Moss made Daunte Culpepper.

 

It's possible that worked the other way too.

[Randall]

I think that Culpepper's problem is almost all mental. The Love Boat scandal split the Vikings locker room a lot more than I think was covered, and it also messed with Culpepper's personal life in a pretty serious way. Suddenly after already having had a couple of excellent seasons in the NFL, he found himself having to prove himself again to fellow teammates, coaches, fans and the media.

 

I think that hurt him, ticked him off, made him more than a little paranoid and 100% messed with his self-confidence. Some of the people that he had relied upon to support him in the past either were no longer around (Linehan, Moss) or just didn't have his back in his view.

 

So, he wanted a clean slate in Miami, but didn't realize that he would STILL have to prove himself down there too. I think that also totally infuriated him to be honest with you. He was expecting to be the unquestioned stud that he once was, regardless of his actions on or off the field. One of the big things about him while up in Minnesota, was that he listened to and was effected by all of the criticism that came from fans and the media. A professional athlete needs to be able to let that slide (because no matter how good you are, you will have critics).

 

On top of all of that, I honestly do think that he was rushed back from his injury too quickly. Even if he said and showed that he was physically doing all right, they should have milked the recovery for a while to allow him to learn the new offense and the new personnel as best as he could. But hey, if everyone including him, says that he's ready... who am I to say otherwise?

 

 

 

That makes sense. What made Jerry Rice and Michael Jordan great is they consitently went out and proved themselves in every game. Sounds like Culpepper wanted tenure , but it doesn't exist in sports.

 

Now hopefully he can work to get himself back, if the money hasn't spoiled him already.

 

In addition to what Savage wrote I think Randy Moss made Daunte Culpepper. Just like Moss made Brad Johnson and Randall Cuningham probowlers. He made Jeff George, Gus Frerotte and Todd Bouman look like all pros.

 

 

 

Yes that's possible but the team looked pretty good even when Moss was hurt the year before. Then the next year Culpepper went downhill. Perhaps knowing Moss was gone and Daunte had to do it himself added to his downfall.

Edited January 21, 2007 by Randall

[Jumpin Johnies]

I think it also makes his character look even more questionable since I believe he is the guy that decided on signing Culpepper over Brees. It's hard to respect a guy who makes a mess and then leaves without even attempting to help clean it up.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-hyd...la-sports-front

 

Saban wanted Brees over C-Pepp but Brees failed a physical with the Dolphins.

[Outshined]

It's possible that worked the other way too.

 

 

Possible - but it did not matter who they plugged at QB, they all did good here and then left for other teams and did not do sqaut.

[Ursa Majoris]

Possible - but it did not matter who they plugged at QB, they all did good here and then left for other teams and did not do sqaut.

 

True.

[CarryTheRock]

In addition to what Savage wrote I think Randy Moss made Daunte Culpepper. Just like Moss made Brad Johnson and Randall Cuningham probowlers. He made Jeff George, Gus Frerotte and Todd Bouman look like all pros. Moss would pull double and triple coverage all the time. Daunte did not have to read defenses - look for the open receiver or just throw to Moss when the safety came up to blitz. When Moss was traded, Culpepper was lost, he couldn't find the open receiver and held onto the ball too long. It was like he was a rookie all over again. The Vikings went 2-5 and then he got hurt. Losing Moss sure messed up his head.

 

Edit: If I were Cam, I would cut and start fresh...

 

Sure didn't help Aaron Brooks or Andrew Walter but I agree with his time in Minny.

[DMD]

I said it last summer and I will say it again - Culpepper is a good quarterback with some great talents and some definite weaknesses. Having Randy Moss was an obvious boon to his career in MIN but just as importantly was having OC Scott Linehan who did wonders for Culpepper in MIN, Frerotte in MIA in 2005 and helped Bulger last year in STL (though as a HC he has less direct impact).

 

If you do not get the right system for Culpepper with the right plays called and good players, then he won't be more than average because his talents will get him a few big games and his weaknesses will hurt the team's chances of winning and force him to have many bad games. I do not like a QB like Culpepper if he is going to be in a drop-back, pocket scheme like they had in SD. It does not suit him as well.

 

As for Moss, he is an elite WR, at least potentially. He helped make Culpepper and he was playing great in OAK for the first 6 games of 2005 before he was injured. 2006 was the twilight zone in OAK and Moss was as much to blame as any player on that team, but not related to his talent.

[CarryTheRock]

I said it last summer and I will say it again - Culpepper is a good quarterback with some great talents and some definite weaknesses. Having Randy Moss was an obvious boon to his career in MIN but just as importantly was having OC Scott Linehan who did wonders for Culpepper in MIN, Frerotte in MIA in 2005 and helped Bulger last year in STL (though as a HC he has less direct impact).

 

If you do not get the right system for Culpepper with the right plays called and good players, then he won't be more than average because his talents will get him a few big games and his weaknesses will hurt the team's chances of winning and force him to have many bad games. I do not like a QB like Culpepper if he is going to be in a drop-back, pocket scheme like they had in SD. It does not suit him as well.

 

As for Moss, he is an elite WR, at least potentially. He helped make Culpepper and he was playing great in OAK for the first 6 games of 2005 before he was injured. 2006 was the twilight zone in OAK and Moss was as much to blame as any player on that team, but not related to his talent.

 

Do you think Harrignton remains the QB?

[DMD]

Do you think Harrignton remains the QB?

 

 

Too early to say for sure but he is likely a better fit for the style of offense.

[CarryTheRock]

Too early to say for sure but he is likely a better fit for the style of offense.

 

Given what you said about the drop back style used in SD that is what I was thinking. I'm also wondering about how this new coach is going to impact Randy McMichael. I know he isn't a Gates but he can be good and was a disappointment this year.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I think that Culpepper's problem is almost all mental. The Love Boat scandal split the Vikings locker room a lot more than I think was covered, and it also messed with Culpepper's personal life in a pretty serious way. Suddenly after already having had a couple of excellent seasons in the NFL, he found himself having to prove himself again to fellow teammates, coaches, fans and the media.

 

I think that hurt him, ticked him off, made him more than a little paranoid and 100% messed with his self-confidence. Some of the people that he had relied upon to support him in the past either were no longer around (Linehan, Moss) or just didn't have his back in his view.

 

So, he wanted a clean slate in Miami, but didn't realize that he would STILL have to prove himself down there too. I think that also totally infuriated him to be honest with you. He was expecting to be the unquestioned stud that he once was, regardless of his actions on or off the field. One of the big things about him while up in Minnesota, was that he listened to and was effected by all of the criticism that came from fans and the media. A professional athlete needs to be able to let that slide (because no matter how good you are, you will have critics).

 

On top of all of that, I honestly do think that he was rushed back from his injury too quickly. Even if he said and showed that he was physically doing all right, they should have milked the recovery for a while to allow him to learn the new offense and the new personnel as best as he could. But hey, if everyone including him, says that he's ready... who am I to say otherwise?

 

 

Well put. I agree with everything you said.