Pacman is innocent, Again!

[Retrograde assault]

I just happen to have a dust rag handy. Unless you want to define they're reputation as the biggest criminal element in the league theory?

[jaxfactor]

 

 

 

 

 

 

"For Pacman to have the gall to say he doesn't know the shooter is ridiculous," Susnar said. "Not only does he know the shooter, his girlfriend knows the shooter, and everyone who was with him knows the shooter. They came with him and they left with him."

 

Ah, amnesia is a wonderful thing isn't it? Just ask Ray Ray.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"He was out of his mind,'' Susnar said witnesses told him about Jones. "As (one security guard) held Pacman, Pacman," he said, threatened the guard in an expletive-laced outburst.

 

"When we get him outside of the club, the guy that was sitting directly next to Pacman the entire time returns with a handgun from his car and shoots (the security guards) in the chest," Susnar said. "Maybe this is just some bizarre coincidence, that some unknown gunman would come back 10-20 minutes after we kicked Pacman out of the club and shoots my guys after (Jones' threats), but I am going to think not."

 

If this is all true you can forget about ANY TEAM putting Pacman on their payroll. He'll be working on the chain gang. Something smells mighty similar to the Ray Lewis incident.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ursa Majoris]

Who wants to bet he either never gets charged or walks if he does?

[Front Row]

I just happen to have a dust rag handy.

nice.

[Donutrun Jellies]

Pacman won't last 2 more seasons. He will be dead, maimed or in prison.

 

This is likely true.

[Randall]

This is likely true.

 

 

 

It could be all three.

[Ursa Majoris]

It could be all three.

 

Technically impossible to be maimed and dead simultaneously. The best that can be hoped for is two for three.

[spain]

Technically impossible to be maimed and dead simultaneously. The best that can be hoped for is two for three.

 

I just hope the Titans can trade him first. Maybe the Lions will part with their 1st round pick for a great cornerback/return specialist who has simply been the target of racial profiling...

[Ursa Majoris]

I just hope the Titans can trade him first. Maybe the Lions will part with their 1st round pick for a great cornerback/return specialist who has simply been the target of racial profiling...

 

While I wouldn't put anything past Millen, it's going to get increasingly difficult to trade these idiots for two reasons:

 

1. Owners and the NFL are increasingly concerned about their image.

2. Many players don't want these guys on their team.

 

Note that two well known troublemakers, TO and Randy Moss, went to two owners who are, to say the least, different from most. The number of opportunities for the likes of Pacman are shrinking.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

 

Note that two well known troublemakers, TO and Randy Moss, went to two owners who are, to say the least, different from most.

 

T.O's a complete ass. Everyone with a pulse knows that. To my knowledge he's never been in trouble with the law. Not sure he could lumped in with the likes of Pacman.

[Cunning Runt]

Who wants to bet he either never gets charged or walks if he does?

 

 

I'll take that bet all day.

 

Pacman's going down on this one.

[SLAYER]

I'll take that bet all day.

 

Pacman's going down on this one.

 

 

 

+1

[Ursa Majoris]

I'll take that bet all day.

 

Pacman's going down on this one.

 

We all thought that about Ray Lewis. We'll see.

[Randall]

I'll take that bet all day.

 

Pacman's going down on this one.

 

 

 

I doubt it. Krob violated probabtion and got to serve concurrent 90 day sentences from 2 different states in whatever state he desires.

[Cunning Runt]

I doubt it. Krob violated probabtion and got to serve concurrent 90 day sentences from 2 different states in whatever state he desires.

 

 

Except there was no where near the seriousness of offenses committed. And KRob was not on videotape slamming a woman's head into a dance floor and punching her. And the shooter was clearly a part of his Pacman's posse. And KRob was not taped saying he was going to kill someone shortly before someone from his posse started firing shots.

 

 

Just sayin'.........

[The Vatican Hitsquad]

Except there was no where near the seriousness of offenses committed. And KRob was not on videotape slamming a woman's head into a dance floor and punching her. And the shooter was clearly a part of his Pacman's posse. And KRob was not taped saying he was going to kill someone shortly before someone from his posse started firing shots.

Just sayin'.........

Can anybody confirm the news I just got that Pacman has just been attached to a $300 million Josh Gordon and coke bust?

[H8tank]

He is going down.

 

Hey BeeR, wanna go double or nothing on this one you welcher?

Edited February 26, 2007 by H8tank

[spain]

[isleseeya]

This time with the pressure building and media pumping story , pacman very well may go down ...if I had to bet I would say he will get something for this and will not walk away 100 percent in the clear

[spain]

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../702260367/1027

 

Monday, 02/26/07

 

If Pacman broke law, proving it may be tough

Nashville lawyers: Sorting out shooting is a tall order

 

By JIM WYATT

Staff Writer

 

 

It's been a week since the triple shooting at a strip club in Las Vegas, and police still haven't identified a suspect.

 

The club's co-owner has accused Pacman Jones of being a friend of the shooter, and the family of a security guard left paralyzed also points to the Titans cornerback. According to the player's attorneys, however, Jones wasn't involved.

 

 

 

 

Two longtime criminal defense attorneys in Nashville said Sunday they aren't surprised the case has not produced a suspect, and agreed it would be tough to prove Jones was involved criminally.

 

"You have a barroom brawl here. It's 5 o'clock in the morning, people have been drinking, and you are going to have different stories from different people,'' said attorney Tommy Overton, who represented a man involved in a barroom fight with former Titans Zach Piller and Fred Miller in 2001. "Normally what you are going to have is one version of events — Pacman and his people — versus maybe the employees of the strip club and what they say happened.

 

"It is always tough to prove anything when there is a barroom brawl with facets of people who have two different stories. If there is video, of course, that could help police determine what really happened.''

 

Jones was questioned by police after the incident at the Minxx Gentleman's Club in Las Vegas last Monday morning, though his attorneys said it was as a witness and not a suspect. Robert Susnar, co-owner of the club, said Jones started a melee when he started throwing money into the air and became upset when dancers began picking it up.

 

Susnar also accused Jones of arriving and leaving with the man who returned to the club and shot three people. Susnar said that police have obtained video of what happened inside the club but that the video cameras outside the club — where the shooting took place — weren't working.

 

"The biggest threat of that case is a civil suit,'' attorney Ed Yarbrough said. "A civil case is a lot easier to prove than a criminal case."

 

Overton and Yarbrough have kept up with the case through media reports but are not directly involved.

 

Video evidence could play a huge factor, both agreed. Jones also has been accused of assaulting a dancer in the club.

 

The biggest potential charge hinges on who is charged in the shooting and if police are able to tie him to Jones.

 

"If Pacman was with this individual and maybe knew he carried a weapon from time to time but never told him to go back to the vehicle to get a weapon and … had no feelings that (the shooting) was going to happen, then just because he might have been with him doesn't make him criminally responsible for anything," Overton said. "It is just too hard to tell right now. I think the police are doing a thorough job of interviewing everyone who was a potential witness there before they are jumping to conclusions.''

 

Jones has spent the past week in Atlanta. The Titans and NFL are monitoring the actions of the Las Vegas Police Department, which released no new information Sunday.

 

Among Susnar's biggest accusations is that Jones told one of the security officers he was fighting with that he was going to have him killed. Not long after, a man Susnar said was with Jones returned with a weapon and shot the security officer, along with two others.

 

"If he (Jones) knows what the other person is up to and encourages or incites another person to go back in there and shoot and cause that man to be paralyzed, then he is in serious trouble,'' Yarbrough said. "That is in both criminal and civil, but the only problem with criminal is how are you going to prove that?''

[HowboutthemCowboys]

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../702260367/1027

 

Monday, 02/26/07

 

If Pacman broke law, proving it may be tough

Nashville lawyers: Sorting out shooting is a tall order

 

By JIM WYATT

Staff Writer

It's been a week since the triple shooting at a strip club in Las Vegas, and police still haven't identified a suspect.

 

The club's co-owner has accused Pacman Jones of being a friend of the shooter, and the family of a security guard left paralyzed also points to the Titans cornerback. According to the player's attorneys, however, Jones wasn't involved.

 

 

 

 

Two longtime criminal defense attorneys in Nashville said Sunday they aren't surprised the case has not produced a suspect, and agreed it would be tough to prove Jones was involved criminally.

 

"You have a barroom brawl here. It's 5 o'clock in the morning, people have been drinking, and you are going to have different stories from different people,'' said attorney Tommy Overton, who represented a man involved in a barroom fight with former Titans Zach Piller and Fred Miller in 2001. "Normally what you are going to have is one version of events — Pacman and his people — versus maybe the employees of the strip club and what they say happened.

 

"It is always tough to prove anything when there is a barroom brawl with facets of people who have two different stories. If there is video, of course, that could help police determine what really happened.''

 

Jones was questioned by police after the incident at the Minxx Gentleman's Club in Las Vegas last Monday morning, though his attorneys said it was as a witness and not a suspect. Robert Susnar, co-owner of the club, said Jones started a melee when he started throwing money into the air and became upset when dancers began picking it up.

 

Susnar also accused Jones of arriving and leaving with the man who returned to the club and shot three people. Susnar said that police have obtained video of what happened inside the club but that the video cameras outside the club — where the shooting took place — weren't working.

 

"The biggest threat of that case is a civil suit,'' attorney Ed Yarbrough said. "A civil case is a lot easier to prove than a criminal case."

 

Overton and Yarbrough have kept up with the case through media reports but are not directly involved.

 

Video evidence could play a huge factor, both agreed. Jones also has been accused of assaulting a dancer in the club.

 

The biggest potential charge hinges on who is charged in the shooting and if police are able to tie him to Jones.

 

"If Pacman was with this individual and maybe knew he carried a weapon from time to time but never told him to go back to the vehicle to get a weapon and … had no feelings that (the shooting) was going to happen, then just because he might have been with him doesn't make him criminally responsible for anything," Overton said. "It is just too hard to tell right now. I think the police are doing a thorough job of interviewing everyone who was a potential witness there before they are jumping to conclusions.''

 

Jones has spent the past week in Atlanta. The Titans and NFL are monitoring the actions of the Las Vegas Police Department, which released no new information Sunday.

 

Among Susnar's biggest accusations is that Jones told one of the security officers he was fighting with that he was going to have him killed. Not long after, a man Susnar said was with Jones returned with a weapon and shot the security officer, along with two others.

 

"If he (Jones) knows what the other person is up to and encourages or incites another person to go back in there and shoot and cause that man to be paralyzed, then he is in serious trouble,'' Yarbrough said. "That is in both criminal and civil, but the only problem with criminal is how are you going to prove that?''

 

if that was any of us we'd be locked up by now.

[spain]

This time with the pressure building and media pumping story , pacman very well may go down ...if I had to bet I would say he will get something for this and will not walk away 100 percent in the clear

 

I dont think he will go to jail. But I definitely think he will be suspended by the Titans for a few games, and hopefully traded away to a team like the Ravens who enjoy having a criminal thug element on their team.

[spain]

Tuesday, 02/27/07

 

Little of $81,000 from strip club is Pacman's, owner says

He says $3,500 belonged to Jones, doesn't want Titan to claim all of cash cops seized

 

By JESSICA FENDER

Staff writer

 

 

LAS VEGAS — Don't be fooled by police reports or a bar tab featuring several $600 bottles of Patron tequila; Titans cornerback Adam "Pacman" Jones wasn't such a high roller the night he and his entourage allegedly ignited a brawl in a Las Vegas strip club that ended in the shooting of three people, the club owner says.

 

Rob Susnar, co-owner of the new Minxx Gentlemen's Club and Lounge, Monday questioned initial police reports that put $81,000 — supposedly used by Jones to shower 40 strippers in a practice known as "making it rain" — in the hands of the troubled football player about 5 a.m. Feb. 19. Club employees changed $3,500 into singles for the sports star, said Susnar, who was not there himself.

 

 

 

 

The $81,000 that police recovered from the hotel room of the Houston club promoter who organized a four-day party at Minxx contained cash that Jones and other celebrities threw on stage and money that the promoter collected at the door from the $100 cover charge, Susnar said.

 

Susnar said he didn't want to see Jones, a man he says he hates and blames for the paralyzing of one of his newest bouncers and the potential collapse of his new business, claim tens of thousands of dollars that don't belong to the player.

 

The recovered money was stored in a safe in promoter Chris Mitchell's room at the Silverton Hotel and Casino, according to a police search warrant that says it is "in all probability, the money from Adam 'Pacman' Jones' plastic bag."

 

An eyewitness and club employee, who asked not to be named out of fear for his safety, said he saw Jones before the brawl reaching into a black, plastic trash bag and throwing fistfuls of bills into the air while the player danced on stage with the strippers. He didn't know how much was in the bag.

 

Meanwhile, rapper Nelly and producer Jermaine Dupri, who left once the fight broke out, displayed their money in blocks of $1,000, peeling off bills and tossing them over the dancers, the employee said.

 

Susnar estimated that the music celebrities threw about $10,000 in bills.

 

A spokesman for the Las Vegas Metro Police Department would not comment on the origins of the money found in Mitchell's hotel room.

 

"We're done talking about it," Bill Cassel said. "The investigation is continuing. We will not release any more information at this point."

 

Late Sunday afternoon, the police officers circling the stage and examining Minxx's back entrance — the door through which some say Jones and his crew left — outnumbered patrons at the small 24-hour club. One bikini-clad exotic dancer, the first to arrive in an hour, showed up and sat in one of the lounge's plush armchairs. The bartender was reading a book by flashlight. Neither knew exactly what happened early Feb. 19.

 

Club workers are scared

 

People here are afraid. The dancers, when not too scared to work, whispered in the bathroom about the night "things got crazy." There's a rumor circulating that a shady character was wandering the halls of the local hospital looking for the room of bouncer and paralyzed shooting victim Tom Urbanski. Several people contacted for this story refused to talk, even off the record, citing the death threats that Jones allegedly issued.

 

The Sunday lull stood in stark contrast to the previous Sunday, when, club employees say, up to 600 basketball followers packed into the small club's booths and around the two-pole stage drinking and watching shipped-in strippers dance to hard-core rap and hip-hop.

 

It was the last night of a weeklong party for the NBA All-Star game that attracted tens of thousands to the desert playground.

 

Jones and his mostly male crew — estimates vary between six and 20 "hangers-on" — sat for several hours in a corner booth near the DJ stand drinking Dom Perignon from the bottle and Patron, the employee said.

 

Minxx is a small club, with a neon bar along one end and a bank of swank private booths separated from the main floor by gossamer curtains on the other. Along a side wall are a set of less prestigious booths, one of which Jones occupied.

 

Nelly, Dupri led the way

 

Susnar and the employee painted the football star as a lesser celebrity trying to get in on Nelly and Dupri's show.

 

Dupri arranged the showering of bills with the DJ, who stopped the music and called all strippers to the stage, the employee said. The DJ laid out the game plan: Strippers, who paid more than $300 apiece to be at the club, should not pick up the bills until the stars were finished throwing money at them, the employee said.

 

"The DJ was yelling at the girls, 'Don't pick up the money. Don't pick up the money. ... If you pick up the money, you might as well pick up your (stuff) and go home,' " he said.

 

Nelly and Dupri showered the strippers for a few songs. Then Jones got in on the deal for another 10 or 15 minutes, the witness said. Trouble started when one of the dancers apparently stooped to pick up some of the money covering the neon-lighted dance floor.

 

The witness heard a scuffle break out, but with everyone on their feet watching, he didn't have a clear picture of the altercation, he said. At one point, a black wig flew up into the air.

 

"That's how I knew it was two girls fighting," he said. "I've been doing this a long time ... and this was by far the craziest thing I've ever seen."

 

Susnar said other employees told him that Jones grabbed a dancer by the hair and punched her in the head. One bouncer, Aaron Cudworth, stepped in to restrain Jones, some in the football player's entourage joined the melee, and other patrons rushed the stage in a frenzy to grab the piles of cash, Susnar said.

 

Video of the incident is not high-quality, but you can still identify the people involved if you already know who they are, Susnar said. The Las Vegas police department asked Susnar not to release the tape, he added.

 

At one point, Cudworth put Jones in a "submission hold," said Susnar, making a headlock-type motion with his arms.

 

That's when, Susnar alleges, Jones told the bouncer, "You're going to die tonight. I'm going to smoke you."

 

Susnar said one of the men forced out of the club with Jones returned later that night and shot Cudworth, Urbanski and a female patron, who were standing at the front door.

 

Jones' lawyers said the shooter was not acquainted with the Titans cornerback. The police have not named Jones as a suspect or a person of interest.

 

Jones' lead attorney, Manny Arora, of Atlanta, could not be reached for comment Monday. A member of his office staff said he was in federal court on an unrelated matter.

 

Jones has faced criminal charges in three incidents involving Tennessee nightclubs since the Titans made him the sixth overall choice in the 2005 NFL draft, according to The Associated Press.

 

The blood that covered the front entrance of Minxx was gone Monday, when Susnar retraced the path of bullets that shattered a smoked glass window pane, dented a metal fixture and left pockmarks in the club's stucco exterior.

 

Those bullets may have ended Susnar's run as a strip club owner once profit losses and potential lawsuits are tallied, he said.

 

Those bullets also left a man paralyzed. The strip club community has posted donation jars, and Minxx will donate Wednesday's bar proceeds to benefit Urbanski and Cudworth.

 

"It's depressing. It's so depressing," Susnar said. "It was Pacman's fault."

 

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...RTS01/702270360

[spain]

Wednesday, 02/28/07

 

Pacman just won't listen, family says

They fear 'out of control' ways will undo him

 

By JIM WYATT

Staff Writer

 

 

Robert Jones loves his nephew, Pacman.

 

Over the years, Robert said, he's done his best to advise Pacman and lead him in the right direction. But their relationship has been more distant of late, largely because their conversations haven't been on topics Titans cornerback Pacman Jones wanted anything to do with.

 

"Everybody tries to talk to him," Robert Jones said. "I do. His mother talks to him, his grandparents talk to him. … I don't know, I just think he is out of control. I've told him I think he is out of damn control, but he doesn't want to hear it.

 

"I hate to say things on the negative because I want to see him do good. But it is hard to see him keep getting involved in stuff like this. …''

 

Pacman Jones' latest brush with trouble — he was at the scene of a triple shooting in Las Vegas on Feb. 19 and has been accused of being a friend of the shooter by the co-owner of the strip club where the incident occurred — wasn't talked about much during a birthday party Jones attended in Atlanta over the weekend, according to three relatives who were present.

 

The party was for Jones' daughter, Zaniyah, who turned 1 last Thursday. Las Vegas police haven't identified a suspect in the case. Jones was interviewed, but it was as a witness and not a suspect, his attorneys said.

 

"The baby was the main focus of the weekend, and he was real happy for his baby. But deep down inside I can see a little fear in him,'' said Willie Louise Davis, Pacman's grandmother. "Deep down in my heart, I know he didn't do any of this. I can tell when he is guilty. I can tell when he does something he isn't supposed to do. I know Pacman, and I know he didn't do this.''

 

Jones has since returned to Nashville to have the stitches removed from a shoulder that was operated on earlier this month and to begin rehabilitation.

 

In recent days his attorneys have declined to comment on the case. Several of his teammates returned calls to The Tennessean but indicated they didn't want their voice in a story about the controversial cornerback, who has been involved in eight incidents since the team drafted him in the first round of the 2005 draft.

 

Jones has not returned calls to The Tennessean since the incident in Las Vegas.

 

Advice 'on deaf ears'

 

Some of his family members contacted Tuesday said they are concerned about his future, largely because of a past that has some of those around him frustrated and wondering what they can do to make a bigger difference.

 

Robert Jones talked to Pacman Jones about the incident in Las Vegas.

 

Robert Susnar, co-owner of the club, said Jones started a melee by throwing money into the air, and he reacted angrily when some of the dancers tried to pick it up. Susnar said Jones threatened one of the security guards, and later a man he was with came back and opened fire outside the club, hitting three people, paralyzing one.

 

"He said it's going to show he wasn't involved, but maybe he is putting himself in the position to getting the criticism he gets. That is just being real,'' said Robert Jones, 41, who's in the trucking business in Atlanta. "I have told him about trying to be in the right place at the right time so much instead of always being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and it kind of goes on deaf ears.

 

"I told him: 'You don't have to try and prove your guilt or innocence to me. All I want you to do is understand you are putting yourself in bad situations, and putting the Titans in bad situations.' I understand he is young and he wants to have fun and all, but sometimes he has to take into consideration the places he's at and the things he's doing.''

 

Robert Jones said his nephew is aware of the consequences of his actions but doesn't seem too worried.

 

Claude Jones said he believes people have a wrong opinion of his grandson, and Robert Jones said his nephew "really is a good person.''

 

"It is just bad that he puts himself in bad situations every time he goes out. I don't want to say every time, but 2 out of 10 times you go out something is going on," Robert Jones said.

 

"It just seems like it doesn't dawn on him about where he is at and what he is doing until the police have been called or it is in the papers, until the (expletive) has done got out of hand. It is just kind of crazy to me the stuff he goes through that could've been avoided.''

 

Bad crowd blamed

 

Jones had an entourage of people with him at the strip club last week, according to Susnar, who accused one of those in Jones' group for being responsible for the shooting.

 

Claude Jones said his grandson needs to change his company.

 

"We are all worried about his future because it gives a bad impression of him, the things happening,'' Claude Jones said. "Overall, he just seems to be hanging with the wrong people. The hangers-on just seem to keep staying around him and bringing him down.''

 

Robert Jones said his nephew needs to learn a lesson from some of his teammates, naming linebacker Keith Bulluck as a player who knows how to handle himself and as someone Jones could learn a lot from.

 

"When those cats come to a party or club, they sit down and have themselves a good time, and then they go home," Jones said. "Pacman just draws attention to himself with the way he carries himself. He goes into clubs with six cats that call themselves 'security.' Well, what kind of attention do you think that's going get? He doesn't need all that. … They know he's there, but he has all these cats surrounding him like he's the Buddha or somebody.

 

"And a lot of people around him don't have his best interest at heart. I tell him, just like I'm telling you, but he'll leave me or go on out the room when I am talking to him. He knows right and wrong, I guarantee you that. But he just thinks the dollar bill can get you out of everything. Well, the dollar bill isn't always going to get you out of this (expletive)."

 

His dad died young

 

Pacman Jones is due to turn 24 on Sept. 30.

 

His grandmother has been counting the years since he was just 5, when Pacman's father — her son Adam — was shot in the back of the head and killed.

 

"He is the only child my son had, and I worry every day about him. I got this age number — if he can just make it to 26, I think he'll be OK," Willie Louise Davis said. "But his daddy didn't make it past 26. I worry, and I hope and pray that (Pacman) can go beyond that and many, many more years. Me and his mother both talk about that all the time.''

 

Robert Jones said he hopes his nephew will change his ways before it's too late.

 

His career, and his life, may depend on it.

 

"I have told him a thousand times he is no bigger than that game, and that game is going to keep going with or without him. Whether he is taking this seriously, I can't really say," Robert Jones said. "But he is going to have to change, and I don't know if he ever will.''

 

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...RTS01/702280465

[Hugh 0ne]

 

 

 

+1 to pretty much everything Mad Dog said. It's time for the NFL to ante-up and grow a pair. This guy should be banned for life. This is not an isolated incident, this is a career criminal, and he has no place in the NFL.

Edited February 28, 2007 by Hugh 0ne