Randall Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 The Panthers plan to incorporate zone-blocking concepts into their offense this season. The scheme that works so well in Denver and Atlanta requires more athletic offensive linemen; Carolina has three in Jordan Gross, Mike Wahle, and Travelle Wharton. The coaching staff feels DeAngelo Williams and DeShaun Foster could be more successful running stretch plays. Source: Charlotte Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 This is really simple to solve. Give the ball to Williams. End of story. No need to revamp everything or focus on some stretch play, just give the ball to the better back and watch him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Has there ever been a good offensive line that used "elements" of zone blocking? The only teams that I can recall that used zone blocking effectively were teams that were comitted to it as their base scheme, using it virtually all of the time. Drafting linemen that are well suited to it. IMO, it isn't something a team can just go do.... linemen need time and snaps to make it work. The Jets tried this sort of hybrid blocking scheme a few years ago, and it was awful. They abandoned the idea about 4 games into the season, and the running game improved a lot. The thing I like about zone blocking, when it's used all the time, is that the defense starts to lean, to cheat attempting to remain in their assigned gaps. That's why it works. It's also helpful if the QB can roll out and either throw on the run or tuck it and go. It didn't work for the Jets, and I don't think it will work for the Panthers either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 (edited) This is really simple to solve. Give the ball to Williams. End of story. Truth Has there ever been a good offensive line that used "elements" of zone blocking? The only teams that I can recall that used zone blocking effectively were teams that were comitted to it as their base scheme, using it virtually all of the time. Drafting linemen that are well suited to it. IMO, it isn't something a team can just go do.... linemen need time and snaps to make it work. The Jets tried this sort of hybrid blocking scheme a few years ago, and it was awful. They abandoned the idea about 4 games into the season, and the running game improved a lot. The thing I like about zone blocking, when it's used all the time, is that the defense starts to lean, to cheat attempting to remain in their assigned gaps. That's why it works. It's also helpful if the QB can roll out and either throw on the run or tuck it and go. It didn't work for the Jets, and I don't think it will work for the Panthers either. Zone blocking schemes, just like running Ds like the 46, require the right personnel to make them work. If zone blocking was the end-all, every team in the NFL would simply go to it. Zone blocking teams have to have everyone committed to it, and the lineman have to be agile & have outstanding technique, since they will be required to move quickly into the zone that they are responsible for and they'll have to do some reaching & chipping when they are clearing their area, as well as walling off the hole that the play is aimed at - the old "drop your butt into the hole & keep driving your legs" philosophy. RBs have to learn patience - which can be extremely difficult at the NFL level since the windows are usually so much smaller & open and close so quickly - and then how to get through a seam to the second level & make one cut to run downhill. It just goes against what some RBs have had ingrained in them since Pop Warner football and what has made them succussful enough to get to the pro level. It sure isn't something that can be done half-ass or part time. It has to be a total buy-in by all players involved directly in the running game. But when it works well, it's a thing of beauty and a beast for Ds to stop without giving up positive yardage on almost every running play. Even a zone blocking play that runs into a good run stunt manages to open enough of a hole for a good RB to gain 2-3 yds on a play. BTW - I think a guy like D Williams in a properly run zone blocking scheme could easily vault into being a top 5 RB. The guy's natural running style is tailor-made for a scheme like that. Edited March 29, 2007 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampnuts Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I agree with above. If they do this, DeShaun Foster's days as a starter should be officially over. They should be anyways, for what it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 zone blocking doesn't mean they run exactly what Denver runs. The Colts are also a zone blocking team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 (edited) zone blocking doesn't mean they run exactly what Denver runs. The Colts are also a zone blocking team. True, but the Colts do it to make their run blocking rules mesh easier with their pass blocking rules, and they are the best pass blocking team in the NFL. Based upon what IND does in pass blocking, it would be extremely difficult to find OLs who would be effective in a conventional run blocking scheme and maintain their unsurpassed level of excellence with pass blocking. Edited March 30, 2007 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 The Vikings tried implementing a zone blocking scheme last season. They have the highest paid line in history and it just came up lame. Part of the reason, as was pointed out, is that a big man like McKinney just isn't the right type of Tackle for a zone blocking scheme. They are trying to force him into it and he is getting burned big time. I don't see it getting any better either. If the Vikings don't abandon their zone blocking boondoggle, then they will end up squandering a lot of money and talent for very sad results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Cheezhead Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Truth Zone blocking teams have to have everyone committed to it,...It sure isn't something that can be done half-ass or part time. It has to be a total buy-in by all players involved directly in the running game. BTW - I think a guy like D Williams in a properly run zone blocking scheme could easily vault into being a top 5 RB. The guy's natural running style is tailor-made for a scheme like that. Agreed on both counts. IF the Panthers could commit fully to the scheme, THEN DeAngelo would thrive big-time. I remember seeing him at Memphis -- a TON of his yardage was racked up on runs when he patiently waited for a hole, then exploded through it into the open field. He's got good agility, but he's not a Barry Sanders-type RB. He's built for a zone scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooGie Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I agree with above. If they do this, DeShaun Foster's days as a starter should be officially over. They should be anyways, for what it's worth. I am fully prepared to denounce the Panthers in a public forum if they attempt to keep DeShaun as the "starter" in 2007-2008. There is not one single argument for it, not one single shred of evidence that Foster deserves anything other than a bench under his ass. I've been leading the charge to get rid of Foster since '05, (as many a huddler can attest) and I'm not going to do it anymore. It's a simple fact, like E=MC2, and "i before e, except after c", Foster is not an NFL running back in any sense of the word. Not a starter, not a backup, not a teacher or student. He's an inoperable brain tumor that festers in the cerebellum of the Carolina organization, and if John Fox (et al) doesn't see that this season, he (they) needs to go too. I'm tired of saying, and Big John knows, the huddlers are tired of hearing it. It's the end of the road for me, and I'm either riding the bridge, or driving off the edge of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks21 Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) After watching DeAngelo play against Philly, then watching his lack of touches the rest of the season......you seriously have to wonder if somebody is purposely trying to tank it over there. This is the league of "go with what works". It is boggling how something could work so well only to have it never be tried again. I'm not a Panthers fan by any stretch, so maybe there is something here at play that I am not aware of, but I really had never seen anything like it. I could understand Foster getting his job back if he had been playing well, but the guy had been flat awful in the second half of games. I'd like to assume that Foster is all but done, but after last season, I really kinda doubt they move away from him. Zone blocking really doesn't require as much speed and athleticism as most of you are leading on. The Denver scheme didn't simply work because they were undersized and fast, it worked because they were a very smart group. Zone blocking is about discipline and adjusting on the fly. Most lineman are athletic enough to pull it off, but not many are smart enough, at least as a group. Edited April 2, 2007 by Seahawks21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) Most lineman are athletic enough to pull it off, but not many are smart enough, at least as a group. O-linemen as a whole are probably the smartest group of people on the field next to the QBs. Seriously, haven't you played or watched enough football to have heard, "The smarter you are, the closer they put you to the ball on offense"? That's a pretty accurate statement. There are exceptions in every group, but as a generalization it works. Edited April 2, 2007 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Billy Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) Just to show you that I'm not shooting from the hip on this: This assessment roughly corresponds to examples from Paul Zimmerman's The New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football. According to Zimmerman, examples of average scores include for each position, Offensive Tackle - 26 Center - 25 Quarterback - 24 Guard - 23 Tight End - 22 Safety - 19 Linebacker - 19 Cornerback - 18 Wide receiver - 17 Fullback - 17 Halfback - 16 LINK Edited April 2, 2007 by Bronco Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 O-linemen as a whole are probably the smartest group of people on the field next to the QBs. Seriously, haven't you played or watched enough football to have heard, "The smarter you are, the closer they put you to the ball on offense"? That's a pretty accurate statement. There are exceptions in every group, but as a generalization it works. Huh. Guess that's why I am banned from the Stadium... In all seriousness, I do not buy the "dumb jock" tag that football players receive. I'd consider myself a fairly smart person and can tell you that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is NO WAY I could ever learn an NFL playbook. NEVER. That these players can and do tells me all I need to know. They can hire an accountant to handle their money, an attorney to plan, and a public relations person to handle their image, but they cannot escape the playbook; that's on them and not knowing it is on display for the world to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameltosis Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 It's the end of the road for me, and I'm either riding the bridge, or driving off the edge of it. :ted kennedy: er ah, people who drive on bridges should be good swimmahs. :ted kennedy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.