Martz working with Stanton

[Randall]

Drew Stanton is getting an extreme makeover in the Lions' three-day rookie camp.

It is the treatment Stanton expected to get from Mike Martz, the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach.

 

"He's changing everything," Stanton said. "It's a lot, and you can see the success rate when you do what he's telling you."

 

Stanton was the first of the Lions' three second-round draft picks. Martz was impressed by Stanton's natural ability when he worked him out before the draft. But that didn't mean Stanton would arrive as the finished product, or anything close to it. Stanton was asked to explain some of the things Martz is changing.

"I could probably stay here for an hour and write a book on it and tell you guys about it," Stanton said. "There's a lot of it, from your feet to your eyes to where I hold the ball -- all those things that he's taught all the quarterbacks who had success.

 

"Now I just need to hammer it home and get it through repetition."

One thing Martz has changed is how Stanton grips the ball. Martz wants him to grip it more with his fingertips, with less of his hand touching the ball.

 

Stanton's natural wrist action gives him a strong release. Throwing with his fingertips will make him more accurate.

 

Working with quarterbacks is a slow process, step by step.

"You take one little thing at a time until he gets comfortable with it," Martz said. "If you give them everything, they just fall apart."

 

Quarterback comparison

 

Stanton is the fourth quarterback drafted by the Lions in the last seven years. He ranks ahead of the other three -- Mike McMahon (2001), Joey Harrington ('02) and Dan Orlovsky ('05) in one of the most important categories: accuracy.

 

Stanton had a career completion rate of 64.2 percent, with a one-season high of 66.7 in 2005.

McMahon and Harrington never had high completion rates in college, and that weakness showed in the pro game. Both have had enough starts to be evaluated as pros. Here's the quarterback breakdown:

McMahon -- A fifth-round draft pick out of Rutgers. He was rated No. 2 athletically, based on workouts, among quarterbacks in the 2001 class. Michael Vick of Virginia Tech was rated No. 1 and was the first player drafted. There is more to playing quarterback than being a great athlete, which is why McMahon was still on the board in the fifth round.

 

Accuracy and decision-making were his biggest weaknesses.

 

McMahon completed 51.8 percent of his passes at Rutgers. He had a high of 51.8 percent in his second season. He played 29 NFL games, with 14 starts, in five seasons with the Lions and Eagles and had a career completion rate of 44.5 percent.

 

McMahon was released by the Vikings at the end of camp last year and has signed with Toronto of the CFL.

Harrington: He arrived in camp with the Lions in 2002 and had a nice, smooth delivery. And given the franchise's history of quarterback failures, he was projected as the savior.

 

One thing that was overlooked in his career at Oregon -- by myself, included -- was his low completion rate. Harrington had a career completion rate of 58.5 percent, with a one-season best of 58.1 in 2001.

Harrington has had a full test in the NFL -- 69 games and 66 starts for the Lions and Dolphins. His career completion rate is 55.2 percent. His improvement from year to year has been as gradual as a tortoise climbing Mt. Everest -- 55.8 percent in 2003, 56.0 in '03, 57.0 in '05 and 57.5 last year with the Dolphins.

He was released after his one season with the Dolphins and signed by Atlanta to be Vick's backup.

Orlovsky: His career completion rate at Connecticut was 58.5 percent, with a one-season high of 63.0 in 2004. Orlovsky has had minimal playing time with the Lions -- 17 attempts and seven completions, all in 2005.

[TecmoBeast]

i don't like the statement, "He's changing everything"

[Rovers]

I saw clips of Stanton's pro day, and listened to Mayock's comments on him. At least on that day, indoors, Stanton was awful in terms of accuracy. I mean awful... no spirals at all. Wobbler after wobbler. After watching that, I had no clue as to how he could have had such a high completion percentage rate. Mayock usually won't rip a player apart, but he did that to Stanton when discussing his pro day.

 

It sounds to me like he's a project. Maybe a very worthwhile project, but a project none the less.

[godtomsatan]

It sounds to me like he's a project. Maybe a very worthwhile project, but a project none the less.

 

 

A 3yr starter at a Big 10 school with 850+ pass attempts drafted in the 2nd Round isn't supposed to be a project.

[Bronco Billy]

Stanton ought to be a very good pro QB. I've already posted in a previous thread how many Mich St players on the O side were drafted in the past 3 years:

 

None in 2007

7th rounder C Chris Morris in 2006

6th rounder RB Deandra Cobb in 2005

7th rounder G William Whitticker in 2005

 

In short, he had very little talent around him on offense to work with - yet he put up superb numbers in a very good BCS conference. His combine workout was very good.

 

To base one's opinion of him on his pro day workout & ignore all his other history borders on stupidity - and Mayock ought to know better.

 

That he's going to be throwing to R Williams & C Jackson for years enhances his value tremendously. The only real knock on him is that he'll force the ball into bad spots when trying to do too much by himself - but he was literally forced to do that at Mich. St.

 

It remains to be seen whether he'll pan out better than Orlovsky, but that Martz wanted him even though he already had Orlovsky to work with for a year says a lot to me who will end up ahead on the depth chart - unless Stanton just doesn't have a good transfer into the pros at all.

[godtomsatan]

In short, he had very little talent around him on offense to work with - yet he put up superb numbers in a very good BCS conference.

 

 

He put up superb numbers in 2005. In 2006, he was mediocre to say the least.

 

I understand he didn't have the necessary talent around him to put up numbers, but there are issues of mechanics that observors harped on in the pre-draft period. Based on the article, that's obviously something the Lions have targeted to change on Day 1.

[Bronco Billy]

He put up superb numbers in 2005. In 2006, he was mediocre to say the least.

 

I understand he didn't have the necessary talent around him to put up numbers, but there are issues of mechanics that observors harped on in the pre-draft period. Based on the article, that's obviously something the Lions have targeted to change on Day 1.

 

 

So you're willing to penalize him for playing most of the year injured, mostly due to his horse**** O-line? And despite a ton of drops by crappy receivers, he still managed to complete 61% of his passes.

 

2006: Left the Notre Dame game in the waning moments (Sept. 23) when he bruised his ribs … Suffered bruised ribs when he was slammed to the ground by defensive end Doug Pilcher, leaving the Illinois game (Sept. 30) in the fourth quarter … Suffered a right hand bruise vs. Michigan (Oct. 7) … Left the Ohio State game (Oct. 14) with back and head injuries after he slammed into a water cooler on the sidelines when forced out of bounds in the third quarter … Left the following game vs. Northwestern (Oct. 21) when he again experienced neck and back pain, but returned later … Suffered a concussion early in the fourth quarter vs. Minnesota (Nov. 11), but played several more snaps before going to the sidelines due to dizziness and did not return to the field. That injury would force him to sit out the season finale vs. Penn State (Nov. 18).

[Doc Holliday]

I think Stanton's chances to be the starter 3 years down the road are good. as was mentioned they already had assessed Orvlosky and them taking Stanton when they did said they don't think he is the guy to eventually replace Kitna.

 

He did tend to throw wild passes when under pressure at MSU. but alot of that was trying to bring the team back from behind and really having no choice but to chuck it up.

[godtomsatan]

So you're willing to penalize him for playing most of the year injured, mostly due to his horse**** O-line? And despite a ton of drops by crappy receivers, he still managed to complete 61% of his passes.

 

 

If by penalize, you mean to point out that his 2006 wasn't nearly as good as his 2005, then yeah, I guess I am.

[Bronco Billy]

If by penalize, you mean to point out that his 2006 wasn't nearly as good as his 2005, then yeah, I guess I am.

 

 

Fair enough.

[godtomsatan]

I think Stanton's chances to be the starter 3 years down the road are good. as was mentioned they already had assessed Orvlosky and them taking Stanton when they did said they don't think he is the guy to eventually replace Kitna.

 

 

If you aren't getting a starting QB, then why draft him at 2.11?

[Bronco Billy]

If you aren't getting a starting QB, then why draft him at 2.11?

 

 

 

You're kidding, right?

[Rovers]

Stanton ought to be a very good pro QB. I've already posted in a previous thread how many Mich St players on the O side were drafted in the past 3 years:

 

None in 2007

7th rounder C Chris Morris in 2006

6th rounder RB Deandra Cobb in 2005

7th rounder G William Whitticker in 2005

 

In short, he had very little talent around him on offense to work with - yet he put up superb numbers in a very good BCS conference. His combine workout was very good.

 

To base one's opinion of him on his pro day workout & ignore all his other history borders on stupidity - and Mayock ought to know better.

 

That he's going to be throwing to R Williams & C Jackson for years enhances his value tremendously. The only real knock on him is that he'll force the ball into bad spots when trying to do too much by himself - but he was literally forced to do that at Mich. St.

 

It remains to be seen whether he'll pan out better than Orlovsky, but that Martz wanted him even though he already had Orlovsky to work with for a year says a lot to me who will end up ahead on the depth chart - unless Stanton just doesn't have a good transfer into the pros at all.

 

 

You exagerate to make a point to support your opinion. Mayock obviously saw a lot of things he didn't like from Stanton that day... and apparently so did Martz. Otherwise, why this:

 

"He's changing everything," Stanton said. "It's a lot, and you can see the success rate when you do what he's telling you."

 

Stanton clearly has to change a lot of what he does before he'll be ready to play in the NFL. In so many words, even Martz said so. Mayock never said he couldn't be an NLF QB, he simply stated the obvious... on Stanton's pro day, he couldn't throw a spiral. Is he supposed to praise the kid at that point? Note the point that was made about how he grips the ball.... it's an inherently inaccurate way to throw. I think he can be coached up, but he isn't NFL ready, that mush seems pretty apparent.

[kingfish247]

I don't mean to say they are the same guy or similar passers but the knocks on Stanton remind me of the knocks on Cutler when he came out last year. Cutler had nothing to work with at Vandy, another BCS conference. In fact, he didn't win many games. He also managed only one season above 60% completion rate. Stanton bested that every year.

 

Cutler took his knocks in his rookie year but looked pretty decent while doing something no other rookie did since Marino... 2 TDs in his first 4 starts wasn't too shabby.

[Ramhock]

All he needs to teach him is to take a blindsided hit, off the edge.

[Rovers]

I don't mean to say they are the same guy or similar passers but the knocks on Stanton remind me of the knocks on Cutler when he came out last year. Cutler had nothing to work with at Vandy, another BCS conference. In fact, he didn't win many games. He also managed only one season above 60% completion rate. Stanton bested that every year.

 

Cutler took his knocks in his rookie year but looked pretty decent while doing something no other rookie did since Marino... 2 TDs in his first 4 starts wasn't too shabby.

 

 

Wow, you are going to comapre Stanton to Cutler? I don't even know where to start with that one... so I'll pass.

[Bronco Billy]

I think he can be coached up, but he isn't NFL ready, that mush seems pretty apparent.

 

 

How many QBs are NFL ready? The greatest QB of this generation - Manning (Peyton version) - wasn't NFL ready. Elway wasn't NFL ready. Almost every QB coming out of college isn't NFL ready. That doesn't mean teams don't try to start them as rookies, but just because a rookie is starting doesn't make them ready to play in the NFL.

 

There's a humongous jump from college to the bigs at QB and it takes an incredibly exceptional individual to be capable of making that jump in a period of 8 months.

[kingfish247]

Wow, you are going to comapre Stanton to Cutler? I don't even know where to start with that one... so I'll pass.

 

Give it a try... because Cutler's win totals at Vindy seem to not be so great. Unless you know something about Cutler's completion percentage while at Vandy other than what can be found on his player cards then please tell. In seasons where both Stanton and Cutler had 140+ attempts, Stanton had a substantially better YPA but only slight better in his last season. (EDIT: YPA is actually a much better gauge of accuracy and overall QB/offensive success/effectiveness than completion percentage)

 

Vandy players drafted...

2006-Cutler, 1st round

2005-a DE and a G in the 6th round

2004-none

2003-Hunter Hillenmeyer, LB 5th round

 

so tell me how the situations of Cutler and Stanton are substantially different?

 

I never said they are the same QB. I'm only saying their situations from college and stats coming out of the pros were similar.

Edited May 7, 2007 by kingfish247

[Savage Beatings]

Drew Stanton is the most exciting player in the NFL.

[godtomsatan]

so tell me how the situations of Cutler and Stanton are substantially different?

 

I never said they are the same QB. I'm only saying their situations from college and stats coming out of the pros were similar.

 

 

The college situations and stats are similar.

 

The evaluations coming out from scouts pre-draft are night and day. Cutler was as highly touted as Vince Young and Matt Leinart, two who are about as accomplished college QBs as there can be in any given year, because of his physical package as well as his fundamentals: throwing ability, pocket presence, decision making, etc..

 

There are plenty of knocks on Stanton for his decision making and his inability to check off receivers. Some of that can be attributed to quality of teammates, but a lot of it is plain ol' fundamentals that starting QBs in the NFL need to have and/or develop. Not that he can't, but he's behind where he needs to be.

 

To quantify the difference between the two a little bit:

 

Denver traded up a bunch last year to get Cutler at 1.12.

Detroit drafted Stanton at 2.11/#43 overall. No other QB was taken for 50 more picks.

 

In my estimation, the Lions panicked because they thought there was going to be a run on QBs in the 2nd after Kolb and Beck went in front of them. Turns out they might have been able to wait until the 4th Round to pick him up. And definitely could have waited until the #61 pick later on in the 2nd to get him if they really wanted to.

[rattsass]

 

Denver traded up a bunch last year to get Cutler at 1.12.

Detroit drafted Stanton at 2.11/#43 overall. No other QB was taken for 50 more picks.

 

In my estimation, the Lions panicked because they thought there was going to be a run on QBs in the 2nd after Kolb and Beck went in front of them. Turns out they might have been able to wait until the 4th Round to pick him up. And definitely could have waited until the #61 pick later on in the 2nd to get him if they really wanted to.

 

 

So you are saying the Lions botched a draft?

[Randall]

[quote name=(Godtomsatan @ 5/7/07 9:15pm)

 

 

Denver traded up a bunch last year to get Cutler at 1.12.

Detroit drafted Stanton at 2.11/#43 overall. No other QB was taken for 50 more picks.

 

In my estimation, the Lions panicked because they thought there was going to be a run on QBs in the 2nd after Kolb and Beck went in front of them. Turns out they might have been able to wait until the 4th Round to pick him up. And definitely could have waited until the #61 pick later on in the 2nd to get him if they really wanted to.

 

 

That's possible but I doubt he would be there late 3rd or 4th. If you want someone you often reach a little.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Randall

[Rovers]

OK, but I'm not going to get into a 3 page debate on any Stanton to Cutler comparison.

 

Comparing stats in the case doesn't mean much to me. While Stanton may have played with less talent than his college is used to, Cutler had zilch talent aroung him at Vandy. Zilch, zero, nada, even on the defense. He had to attempt to win every game with gun slinging and high risk plays. Vandy sucks every year because they have a lousy football program. Stanton had much more to work with.

 

Cutler had some mechanics to improve on, but the real basic stuff, like how to grip the ball weren't part of what he had to fix, compared to Stanton. Cutler had to work on his footwork, how to square up better... Stanton from this report, and what Martz said has many more basic mechanics to fix, even to relearn.... nearly from scratch.

 

Cutler has a better arm and we never saw reports like this on him... rather there was high praise for how good he was from the start. All college QB's need seasoning, clipboard time, coaching and reps in practice before they are properly prepared to attempt to run an NFL offense. Stanton's development sounds like it is far behind where Cutler was at this same time last year. Cutler didn't look like puke on his pro day. There is no comparison. Based on where they were drafted... the NFL agrees with me, or rather, I with them. No comparison holds water between these two. Cutler is the better, faster athlete, has a better arm, and had fewer mechanics to get fixed.

 

That doesn't mean Stanton can't develop, bit he's far behind where Cutler was from a development standpoint, and Stanton doesn't possess either the talent or athletisism that Cutler does. Compare Stanton to Clemens... now that would make more sense to me.

[Randall]

While Mayyock and some others loved Cutler this was the negative on him last year.

 

Weaknesses: He has a lot of room to improve in terms of his overall mechanics and consistency. He has a bit of a windmill delivery. Has a tendency to drop his arm and wind up, especially when throwing on the run. Needs to quicken his release. Will telegraph too many of his throws. Takes too many chances throwing the ball up for grabs. He can be streaky as a passer and will lose the "strike zone" too frequently. He has a tendency to throw off his back foot and force throws under pressure. He needs to become more consistent when throwing timing routes. Will release too late at times on timing routes. Needs to show more consistency when trying to get rid of the ball before the WR gets out of his break.

[Rovers]

While Mayyock and some others loved Cutler this was the negative on him last year.

 

Weaknesses: He has a lot of room to improve in terms of his overall mechanics and consistency. He has a bit of a windmill delivery. Has a tendency to drop his arm and wind up, especially when throwing on the run. Needs to quicken his release. Will telegraph too many of his throws. Takes too many chances throwing the ball up for grabs. He can be streaky as a passer and will lose the "strike zone" too frequently. He has a tendency to throw off his back foot and force throws under pressure. He needs to become more consistent when throwing timing routes. Will release too late at times on timing routes. Needs to show more consistency when trying to get rid of the ball before the WR gets out of his break.

 

 

Like I said... mostly footwork and squaring up....