irish Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I tend to be less analytical when it comes to his 2006 numbers. i saw every game he played. and remember, it was his first year starting and "team" expectations were very high and so there was a lot of pressure on Rivers. Schottenheimer was very cautious with him especially early on. so to grade him based on last season's numbers alone is foolish IMO. he's now with a great offensive coach. they'll have more speed at the WR position, and Norv loves to use the TE (and we luckily have one of the best). most importantly, the Chargers now know what they have at QB and won't hesitate to turn him loose when the game plan calls for it. the proof isn't always in the numbers. you need a pattern to predict the future. one season, especially a QB's first season, does not make a pattern. it probably just tells of the great things to come. He's not Top 10 but rather Top 15, end of story. It's simply a matter of 2 letters keeping him from being considered in the elite Top 5-10 group- LT. As much as Turner loves to throw to his TE (which they were already doing) he loves to run the football. LT and the defense will continue to win most games for this team and they won't ask Rivers to do much more than he's done as it's already a recipe for success. I mean we could say he had the success he had last year because defenses were keying on LT and when they decided to pass things were open to do so. I know you're a very happy Charger fan (homer) but we need to be realistic and see a hugh jump in Rivers' stats before we crown him Elite in the FF world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 He's not Top 10 but rather Top 15, end of story. It's simply a matter of 2 letters keeping him from being considered in the elite Top 5-10 group- LT. As much as Turner loves to throw to his TE (which they were already doing) he loves to run the football. LT and the defense will continue to win most games for this team and they won't ask Rivers to do much more than he's done as it's already a recipe for success. I mean we could say he had the success he had last year because defenses were keying on LT and when they decided to pass things were open to do so. I know you're a very happy Charger fan (homer) but we need to be realistic and see a hugh jump in Rivers' stats before we crown him Elite in the FF world. I agree. The same arguments made for and against Big Ben can be made here and while the Steelers relied on the run while keeping Ben within his limits; they didn't have LT to dominate the game either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Rivers is the next Tom Brady IMHO. Especially now that he's had a solid year of production under his belt and will be hooking up more with the likes of Vincent Jackson and Craig Davis. My prediction: after this upcoming season, he will be drafted as a solid upper Tier 2 QB... then the following year he will be considered a stud Tier 1 QB. Couldn't have said this better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdog Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 (edited) He's not Top 10 but rather Top 15, end of story. It's simply a matter of 2 letters keeping him from being considered in the elite Top 5-10 group- LT. As much as Turner loves to throw to his TE (which they were already doing) he loves to run the football. LT and the defense will continue to win most games for this team and they won't ask Rivers to do much more than he's done as it's already a recipe for success. I mean we could say he had the success he had last year because defenses were keying on LT and when they decided to pass things were open to do so. I know you're a very happy Charger fan (homer) but we need to be realistic and see a hugh jump in Rivers' stats before we crown him Elite in the FF world. "we need to see a hugh jump in Rivers' stats before we crown him Elite"? isn't this thread based on predictions? we're talking potential here....not what was. If your biggest argument "against" Rivers is that he's got too much talent around him, well i'll take my chances with that. maybe you'll be proven right. maybe they'll repeat the formula of last year and Rivers will have good but modest numbers. maybe he'll be Troy Aikman his whole career, which i'd be very happy with if it comes with the Super Bowls. i just have a difficult time limiting my expectations because he's got a stud at RB. and if things stay the same with the offense, do you expect LT to get another 30 TDs? because if he doesn't, and say he gets 23 TDs, who'll account for the other 7? Edited June 12, 2007 by rebdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 9 Rivers, Philip SDC QB 73.49 10 Vick, Michael ATL QB 74.33 11 Cutler, Jay DEN QB 80.81 12 Romo, Tony DAL QB 82.39 13 Manning, Eli NYG QB 88.45 14 Hasselbeck, Matt SEA QB 91.16 15 Kitna, Jon DET QB 97.49 16 Roethlisberger, Ben PIT QB 102.95 This is the group that ought to see the most movement. I would agree with it more if it was upside down. I would assume Green to move up to 17-19ish.....Favre seems like he's ranked too low, but I'm not really seeing many names above him I'd swap him out for. Probably somewhere in the top 15, but I'd have to think of who I'd drop.....Pennington has a solid schedule for passing this season. I would definitely have him in the top 20.....Leinart is not ranked too high. He's got solid talent around him, an offensive minded coaching staff, and a friendly schedule. I like him better than Vince Young this season.....Rivers I might drop to 10th, maybe 11th, if I'm feeling frisky, but he's more or less right there. Both QBs are young, still developing, and in new situations that will cater to them. Rivers might explode given Norv's ability to develop guys, provided that someone else besides Gates and Tomlinson figure out how to catch the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROYALWITCHEESE Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Young is going way to early IMO. Who else is there on that offense besides him? In what world is it a good thing to be the only playermaker on your team?? You guess it, the FANTASY world. Someone has to score, it will be Vince providing the points both running and passing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 In what world is it a good thing to be the only playermaker on your team?? You guess it, the FANTASY world. Guess again. Unless you mean "fantasy" as in "dreamland" and not FF. Not having weapons on offense is not good in any sense. Generally IMO: Too low: Kitna Favre Delhomme Too high: Young McNabb Russell Cutler Schaub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Guess again. Unless you mean "fantasy" as in "dreamland" and not FF. Not having weapons on offense is not good in any sense. Generally IMO: Too low: Kitna Favre Delhomme Too high: Young McNabb Russell Cutler Schaub McNabb would have been the no1 qb last year if not for the injury... Young will get a ton of points off of his rushing yards/TD's. I think he's a top 10 qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URLACHERisGOD Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 McNabb would have been the no1 qb last year if not for the injury... Young will get a ton of points off of his rushing yards/TD's. I think he's a top 10 qb. Did you already forget who is on the cover of Madden '08? Guess again please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Did you already forget who is on the cover of Madden '08? Guess again please... Vince Young will kill the streak. Everytime I doubt him he wins. I was sure he would collapse before he got to a N.C. I was sure USC would destroy UT at the N.C. I was sure his skills wouldnt carry over to the NFL. I was sure he couldnt make the Titans go 8-8 last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Swap Kitna with V. Young and the top 5 seems perfect (I would have Palmer at #1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 1 Peyton Manning, IND 2 Carson Palmer, CIN 3 Tom Brady, NE 4 Drew Brees, NO 5 Marc Bulger, S 6 Donovan McNabb, PHI 7 Vince Young, TEN 8 Tony Romo, DAL 9 Philip Rivers, SD 10 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 11 Matt Hasselbeck, SEA 12 Brett Favre, GB 13 Matt Leinart, ARI 14 Jay Cutler, DEN 15 Steve McNair, BAL 16 Kitna DET 17 Eli Manning, NYG 18 Alex Smith, SF 19 J.P. Losman, BUF 20 Matt Schaub, HOU 21 Trent Green, MIA 22 Jake Delhomme, CAR 23 Michael Vick, ATL 24 Chad Pennington, NYJ 25 Byron Leftwich, JAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazysight Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 (edited) Too low: Kitna Roethisberger Smith Losman Too high: Vick Eli Manning Schaub Russell Edited June 13, 2007 by Crazysight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I think Romo's too high given the way he played the second half last year and a new scheme to learn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 high: Young McNabb Russell Cutler Schaub Cutler belongs at or near the 10 spot. He made some rookie mistakes but to finish with an almost 2:1 TD/INT ratio in his first 5 games is nice for a rook. 4 of 5 games with 2 pass TDs and a nice 88.5 QB rating (Brady finished the season at 87.9). Look out for Cutler imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 29 McNair, Steve BAL QB 179.44 Actually, this is one name that seems extremely low here at 29. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish247 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Actually, this is one name that seems extremely low here at 29. He had only 4 games with 2+ TDs and 4 games with zero TDs. I agree he probably doesn't belong below Jackson/Quinn/Leftwich. He's actually probably right there with Leftwich. Anyways, McNair in Baltimore is about as consistent as Grossman only with slightly worse stats. While a lot of guys' careers ahead of McNair pale in comparison, the bet there is the FF production ceiling is greater for a lot of those guys. McNair, in Baltimore's offense, sure seems settled into that 3000yd/16 passing TD range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 McNabb would have been the no1 qb last year if not for the injury... those last words are key. I don't trust him to stay healthy. If he does, yeah, he's great. Young will get a ton of points off of his rushing yards/TD's. Agree but even so his passing is too rough for it to compensate enough for him to be top 10. And don't count on those rushing stats to be the same or better every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 He had only 4 games with 2+ TDs and 4 games with zero TDs. I agree he probably doesn't belong below Jackson/Quinn/Leftwich. He's actually probably right there with Leftwich. Anyways, McNair in Baltimore is about as consistent as Grossman only with slightly worse stats. While a lot of guys' careers ahead of McNair pale in comparison, the bet there is the FF production ceiling is greater for a lot of those guys. McNair, in Baltimore's offense, sure seems settled into that 3000yd/16 passing TD range. I have him down as the #16 QB last year. Even if a handful ranked below him play a full season, I still can't see him much below #20 with a more mature receiving corps and presumably younger/fresher legs to run the football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROYALWITCHEESE Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Guess again. Unless you mean "fantasy" as in "dreamland" and not FF. Not having weapons on offense is not good in any sense. Generally IMO: Too low: Kitna Favre Delhomme Too high: Young McNabb Russell Cutler Schaub You act like Bennett and Henry were superstars, they were products of that offense and the threat of Young. You might want to tell Vick to stop being a top 10 QB, I guess he didn't get the memo. He hasn't had any weapons either, yet still manages big fantasy points. I'll bet you VY exceeds last years stats, and is a top 10 FF QB... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 (edited) You act like Bennett and Henry were superstars, they were products of that offense and the threat of Young.?? Bennett and Henry were successful before Young came along and Henry w/the Bills before that. I won't even get into "product of the offense" You might want to tell Vick to stop being a top 10 QB, I guess he didn't get the memo. He hasn't had any weapons either, yet still manages big fantasy points.Granted his WRs are lacking, but I'd say Crumpler, Dunn and then Norwood have been pretty good weapons. But much as I think it unlikely, there is a chance of Vick being suspended this year, and who knows how that whole mess will impact him/the team even if not. I'll bet you VY exceeds last years stats, and is a top 10 FF QB... #1 isn't saying much, disagree on #2. Possible, I just don't see it this year. Edited June 13, 2007 by BeeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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