Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Comparing Marvin and Moss' worst years is hardly fair. Manning absolutely made Harrison. Marvin was the only halfway decent WR on the field for his first six or seven years in the league. He was covered like a blanket and still produced prolific numbers. He doesn't get nearly enough credit for that. Moss had future HOFer Cris Carter drawing defensive backs away from him for the first five years of his career. So the "But Marvin has Peyton" argument is kind of silly in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Why are we talking about Marvin Harrison? We know he is good. And Marvin and Randy are different types of receivers too. Moss is not a guy who is going to get 100 receptions a year. Harrison is that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Because Harrison (an active players who is a sure-fire HOF'er) was foolishly brought up as some kind of measuring stick to compare Randy Moss too. As I have clearly demonstrated, that was a bad comparison. No one compares to Marvin Harrison. (Well, except for Jerry Rice, who was a product of Montana and Young ) Edited June 28, 2007 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 By the way, Moss has put up 1500 or more yards exactly ONCE in his entire career, and that was 4 years ago. Not sure why you think he will do it two years in a row all of a sudden. Because he has Tom Brady throwing to him, arguably the best quarterback in the game. Just like Harrison has Manning. Harrison put up 11,185 yards in his first 9 season. Moss? 10700. Harrison put up 845 catches. Moss? 676. Harrison had 98 TD's. Moss? 101. You can have all the "by age 29" crap. In his first 9 years, Harrison blows Moss out of the water by 485 yards and 169 catches. Once again, Peyton Manning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Moss only got to 1500 yards ONCE with Culpepper, who was a stat-monster. Brady's never put up eye-popping stats. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Once again, Peyton Manning. So how do you explain his first two years in the league then? He didn't have Peyton Manning then, and he still put up better numbers than Randy Moss has the last two years. . . I was at Marvin's first NFL game. He was lined up against Aeneus Williams of the Cards, who was at the time, one of the elite cornerbacks in the league. Harrison blew right by him and brought in an over-the-shoulder catch for a 50+ yard TD. Edited June 28, 2007 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 So how do you explain his first two years in the league then? He didn't have Peyton Manning then, and he still put up better numbers than Randy Moss has the last two years. . . Randy was also somewhat hurt these past two years. He quit, yes. That team blew, yes, just like the Colts did. But Walter blew and Brooks blew too, just like the other guys. The simple answer is his quitting hurt his numbers. That's all there is to it. It's a knock, for sure, but he can make up for that now with Brady. Look, I love Marvin Harrison, always have. I think this is a stupid argument. We are trying to argue whether Moss is worthy of the HOF. One final thing about Harrison vs. Moss: Yes, Harrison is older than Moss by four years, but the important thing is that Moss has played two years less in the league. If one was to take his per season average for yards and touchdowns, he would be at 123 for touchdowns (one more than Harrison), and 13,077 (620 behind Harrison). These guys are both awesome wide outs and two of the best of this "era." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Speaking of game film... I defy anyone to show me game film of Marvin Harrison running shallow cross routes. Saying Moss made his career outside the numbers and dissing him for it is a bit disengenuous considering how many WRs actually make a living between the numbers... few to none. check this video. First two clips are catches over the middle. the catch my favorite part is Vrable crying for a flag after the spiked ball hits him in the facemask. What a little bitch! Edited June 28, 2007 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Moss only got to 1500 yards ONCE with Culpepper, who was a stat-monster. Brady's never put up eye-popping stats. . . If you think Brady is not going to do well this season, then all I can do is . Edited June 28, 2007 by Goopster24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) If you think Brady is not going to do well this season, then all I can do is . Uh, read my other posts brainiac. I already said that I think Moss will have a great season, and will be in the HOF someday. He's just not as good as Marvin Harrison, plain and simple. Edited June 28, 2007 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Why are we talking about Marvin Harrison? We know he is good. And Marvin and Randy are different types of receivers too. Moss is not a guy who is going to get 100 receptions a year. Harrison is that guy. BINGO! Randy Moss SHOULD be that guy!!!! He has all the talent in the world, but none of the work ethic. He should catch 100 balls every single year. There is no way Marvin Harrison should put up better numbers than Randy Moss. But Moss is a quitter when things aren't going well. He dogs it on the field even when they are. And he doesn't work hard at making himself the best WR he can be. Those are the reasons he isn't in the same category as Harrison. Edited June 28, 2007 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 We know Marvin Harrison is amazing. We are trying to determine if Randy Moss is a HOFer, not better than Marvin Harrison. My lord... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 We know Marvin Harrison is amazing. We are trying to determine if Randy Moss is a HOFer, not better than Marvin Harrison. My lord... once again, (I will type slower so you can understand), because Harrison was brought up as a current NFL receiver that is already a lock for the HOF, so Randy is being compared to him. Get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Once again, Peyton Manning. No doubt that Peyton has contributed to Marvin's numbers. But how do you explain what Marvin did in 2002 (143 receptions, 1722 yds)? No other receiver or TE on that offense caught even 50 balls! Opposing defenses KNEW that Peyton was going to Marvin. So how did he catch 143 balls in double- and triple-coverage? I'll give you a hint: It has nothing to do with Peyton Manning. Edited June 28, 2007 by Bill Swerski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) once again, (I will type slower so you can understand), because Harrison was brought up as a current NFL receiver that is already a lock for the HOF, so Randy is being compared to him. Get it? You'd be one of the last people on this board that I would imagine assuming things. Why are you attacking me? Did I ever say I don't understand? Edited June 28, 2007 by Goopster24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Like I said earlier, Moss doesn't have enough to get in if his career ended today. 4-4 in the play-offs, including 0-2 in the NFC Championship. 5 of his 9 teams have been .500 or worse. A 1000 yard season and a SB ring would put him in the HOF for sure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 No doubt that Peyton has contributed to Marvin's numbers. But how do you explain what Marvin did in 2002 (143 receptions, 1722 yds)? No other receiver or TE on that offense caught even 50 balls! Opposing defenses KNEW that Peyton was going to Marvin. So how did he catch 143 balls in double- and triple-coverage? I'll give you a hint: It has nothing to do with Peyton Manning. I have never doubted Harrison's ability. All I was saying is that Moss has never played with someone like Manning. If he falters now, then we can call him a bust and what not. But the talent he has paired with Brady should produce some positive things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 If you think Brady is not going to do well this season, then all I can do is . We know Marvin Harrison is amazing. We are trying to determine if Randy Moss is a HOFer, not better than Marvin Harrison. My lord... You'd be one of the last people on this board that I would imagine assuming things. Why are you attacking me? Did I ever say I don't understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) I have never doubted Harrison's ability. All I was saying is that Moss has never played with someone like Manning. If he falters now, then we can call him a bust and what not. But the talent he has paired with Brady should produce some positive things. And I definitely agree. But you don't seem to understand that the off the field crap that Randy has pulled, plus quitting on his teams, does weigh into considering his "greatness". You can't be a world class talent and be a world class a-hole and be "great". He's not currently a lock for the HOF because of it. And for about 5 years, Culpepper and Manning were considered two of the top QB's in the league. Just because Culpepper has sucked since a catastrophic knee injury doesn't mean he wasn't any good. Edited June 28, 2007 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I have never doubted Harrison's ability. All I was saying is that Moss has never played with someone like Manning. Marvin has spent his entire career in double coverage and had garbage lined up opposite him for his first five years in the league. Randy Moss had a future HOFer on the other side of the field for his first five years. How has Peyton artificially inflated Marvin's numbers, while Cris Carter didn't draw coverage away from Moss and inflate his? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 He's not currently a lock for the HOF because of it. I agree with that. I think that he'll get in, but he's definitely not a lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) And I definitely agree. But you don't seem to understand that the off the field crap that Randy has pulled, plus quitting on his teams, does weigh into considering his "greatness". You can't be a world class talent and be a world class a-hole. He's not currently a lock for the HOF because of it. Please don't tell me what I don't "seem" to understand when it comes to the HOF. There are plenty of guys who were jerks to their teammates and jerks to fans and management and what not who are in HOFs around sports. Randy Moss IMO hasn't done stuff to warrant being kept out of the HOF. He is misunderstood I think and the media sees it differently than me, along with many fans, I KNOW. You are correct, that will probably keep him out of the HOF. I will take back that I said he is a lock or "plain and simple" but I think when he is done, like you think too, that he will be in the HOF. Edited June 28, 2007 by Goopster24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Please don't tell me what I don't "seem" to understand when it comes to the HOF. There are plenty of guys who were jerks to their teammates and jerks to fans and management and what not who are in HOFs around sports. Randy Moss IMO hasn't done stuff to warrant being kept out of the HOF. He is misunderstood I think and the media sees it differently than me, along with many fans, I KNOW. You are correct, that will probably keep him out of the HOF. I will take back that I said he is a lock or "plain and simple" but I think when he is done, like you think too, that he will be in the HOF. name someone in the NFL Hall of Fame that has as much baggage as Randy Moss. kicked out of two colleges. ran over a meter maid. squirted a ref with a water bottle, repeatedly "dogs" it on the field, left a game before it was over, admits to drug use, quit on his team, blew up the relationship between himself and his QB, traded twice etc. etc. Edited June 28, 2007 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goopster24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 name someone in the NFL Hall of Fame that has as much baggage as Randy Moss. Once again I will begin this in saying that his "baggage" I don't consider baggage at all. The one thing you can hold him to is he quit in Oakland. That is it IMO. What about Michael Irvin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHook Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Once again I will begin this in saying that his "baggage" I don't consider baggage at all. The one thing you can hold him to is he quit in Oakland. That is it IMO. What about Michael Irvin? one drug arrest while he was a player, for which he paid a fine and was put on probation. probably one of the reasons he didn't get in until his third year of eligibility. But you will never, ever hear anyone say that Irvin didn't give it his all on game day. and he won 3 SB's. diidn't blow up his relationship with Aikman. never was traded. never kicked out of college. Edited June 28, 2007 by CaptainHook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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