Best Athlete By Number

[URLACHERisGOD]

#9: Ted Williams? C'mon! What about the Punky QB...Jim McMahon!

#10: Pele? How about Kordell Stewart baby?!

[DKF]

I am just glad they included '00' as a number.

Edited July 6, 2007 by DKF

[Bill Swerski]

Im not arguing he wasnt a good player back then, just that he has been surpassed by more than 1 SS, and is remembered for that streak. without it, he is just another player whose stats dont measure up with todays stars.

 

NOBODY'S stats from the early 80's-early 90's match up to today's players. Even if you take steroids/HGH out of the equation, players are in much better physical shape today, the fences have moved in about 20 feet in a number of ballparks, they're facing diluted pitching talent due to expansion, and retired pitchers will even tell you that the ball is wound tighter today.

 

Ripken most certainly was a good player, but MVPs, dont mean your a top 5 player in the league. Was Morneau really a top 5 player last yr, or how bout Juan Gone the yrs he wont it.

 

Morneau and Juan Gone were easily Top 5 players when they won it. Plus, everybody knows that Juan Gonzalez was a roider. Even Tom Hicks admitted so on camera a couple of weeks ago.

 

Frank Thomas "only" won two MVPs, yet nobody is disputing that he dominated in '93 and '94 and is a lock for the HOF. Like Thomas, Ripken was also consistently very good for a long time IN ADDITION to those two MVPs.

 

2 gold gloves is nothing, if he was a better defensive SS, he would have plenty more in 20 yrs.

 

Gold Gloves are somewhat of a popularity contest and they only give them to one player at each position in each league. Jeter has won the past three in the AL, but anybody who watches baseball will tell you that Juan Uribe is superior defensively. Eric Chavez almost always wins the 3B Gold Glove in the AL, but it can be argued that Joe Crede is as good or better defensively. Consider the fact that Ripken played SS in the overlapping eras of Ozzie Smith and Omar Vizquel, two of the best defensive shortstops EVER, and it's no wonder that he didn't win more.

 

The one thing that a Gold Glove will tell you is that you're playing awfully well at your position. Ripken was an excellent defensive SS.

 

Top 5 of his generation, or best SS prior to this era, hardly the case. Ernie Banks was better, and he came before Ripken.

 

Banks only played the first half of his career at SS, switching to 1B in the early '60s. That was a full generation before Cal.

 

Ripken may not have been one of the Top 5 overall players of his generation, but he was a first-ballot HOFer and the best player of his era to wear a baseball uniform with the #8 on the back (which is what this thread is about).

 

He doesn't need drugs but does need to stay healthy. Doubtful but possible. Griffey couldn't do but you never know.

 

A-Rod's numbers are going to decline once he hits his mid/late 30's, even without injuries. I agree that he has a legitimate shot IF he stays healthy, but that's VERY difficult to do (Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, Jeff Bagwell, Griffey, Sammy Steroids, etc.).

Edited July 6, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[Azazello1313]

NOBODY'S stats from the early 80's-early 90's match up to today's players. Even if you take steroids/HGH out of the equation, players are in much better physical shape today, the fences have moved in about 20 feet in a number of ballparks, they're facing diluted pitching talent due to expansion, and retired pitchers will even tell you that the ball is wound tighter today.

 

yeah, offensive stats are obviously way up these days compared to those of ripken. sarge would have us believe that is because today's players are so much better, but that is foolish. when ripken was growing up in the 60s and 70s, EVERY young kid of EVERY race wanted to be mickey mantle, willie mays, roberto clemente, sandy koufax, bob gibson, johnny bench, brooks robinson. today, baseball is way less popular (except in latin america), and all the top young american athletes are going into football and basketball, so i don't think the talent pool is what it used to be. then there's expansion, which just dilutes the pitching quality that much more now compared to then. next, add in the slew of new ballparks, nearly all of which are far more hitter-friendly than ballparks in the 80s. and, you can't forget the performance nehancing drugs, either.

 

of course, i'm sure if jimmy rollins played in the 80s he'd be hitting 40 dingers, winning league MVP and a gold glove every year. it would be like putting shaq on the 1952 celtics.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Azazello1313

[blips]

Fixed:

 

The best CHEATER of all time.

[McBoog]

Gotta Love that Shot of 00 Jim Otto!

[Sgt. Ryan]

NOBODY'S stats from the early 80's-early 90's match up to today's players. Even if you take steroids/HGH out of the equation, players are in much better physical shape today, the fences have moved in about 20 feet in a number of ballparks, they're facing diluted pitching talent due to expansion, and retired pitchers will even tell you that the ball is wound tighter today.

Morneau and Juan Gone were easily Top 5 players when they won it. Plus, everybody knows that Juan Gonzalez was a roider. Even Tom Hicks admitted so on camera a couple of weeks ago.

 

Frank Thomas "only" won two MVPs, yet nobody is disputing that he dominated in '93 and '94 and is a lock for the HOF. Like Thomas, Ripken was also consistently very good for a long time IN ADDITION to those two MVPs.

Gold Gloves are somewhat of a popularity contest and they only give them to one player at each position in each league. Jeter has won the past three in the AL, but anybody who watches baseball will tell you that Juan Uribe is superior defensively. Eric Chavez almost always wins the 3B Gold Glove in the AL, but it can be argued that Joe Crede is as good or better defensively. Consider the fact that Ripken played SS in the overlapping eras of Ozzie Smith and Omar Vizquel, two of the best defensive shortstops EVER, and it's no wonder that he didn't win more.

 

The one thing that a Gold Glove will tell you is that you're playing awfully well at your position. Ripken was an excellent defensive SS.

Banks only played the first half of his career at SS, switching to 1B in the early '60s. That was a full generation before Cal.

 

Ripken may not have been one of the Top 5 overall players of his generation, but he was a first-ballot HOFer and the best player of his era to wear a baseball uniform with the #8 on the back (which is what this thread is about).

A-Rod's numbers are going to decline once he hits his mid/late 30's, even without injuries. I agree that he has a legitimate shot IF he stays healthy, but that's VERY difficult to do (Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, Jeff Bagwell, Griffey, Sammy Steroids, etc.).

 

 

The streak led to Ripkens poularity. he was a solid player in his time no doubt, but his stats by todays standards are avg at best, regardless of whatever excuse you want to say about todays advantages. Players today are stronger and hit the ball further than ever before. Pitchers throw harder, and the game as a whole is faster. Defensively and offensively. Ripken received too much credit for a streak, and was an avg power hitter, in a dead ball era. His power doesnt translate in todays game, neither does his arm, or ability to make the plays SS today make. Seriously, Ripken would probably be a 1B or DH in todays game.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Sgt. Ryan

[McBoog]

Fixed: Fixed:

 

The best CHEATER of all time

 

...but in a good way!

[Bill Swerski]

The streak led to Ripkens poularity.

 

That is true, but he was also popular before the streak because he was a great player.

 

he was a solid player in his time no doubt, but his stats by todays standards are avg at best, regardless of whatever excuse you want to say about todays advantages.

 

So, I suppose that Donovan McNabb and Daunte Culpepper are much, MUCH better players than Otto Graham and Joe Namath, regardless of whatever excuse you want to say about today's advantages.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Bill Swerski

[Azazello1313]

The streak led to Ripkens poularity.

 

right, that's why he was the overall top all-star vote getter in 85 and 86, when "the streak" was in the low 3-digits.

[MikesVikes]

#14 Don Hutson

#74 Bob Lilly

#81 Night Train Lane is not better than Tim Brown?

Edited July 6, 2007 by MikesVikes

[Bill Swerski]

Even Otto Graham couldnt have taken that Bird offense to the playoffs the past decade, outside the 1 yr with TO. So I think McNabb is a proven stud.

 

Otto Graham is a HOFer because he was one of the greatest OF HIS ERA. Donovan McNabb is not. Let me repeat the important part that you're not understanding: OF HIS ERA!

 

Games change dramatically from decade to decade. Players need to be judged against their peers, rather than raw statistics.

[Crazysight]

Jabar was great, but 33 should be Larry Bird. He made the Celtics franchise in the same way Magic did for L.A.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Crazysight

[Crazysight]

I'd take Ronnie Lott over Jackie Robinson too...but I'm not a baseball person.

[Crazysight]

That said, how the hell were Warren Moon and all those other guys rated higher than the guy who made baseball to begin with, Babe Ruth?

Edited July 7, 2007 by Crazysight

[Azazello1313]

That said, how the hell were Warren Moon and all those other guys rated higher than the guy who made baseball to begin with, Babe Ruth?

 

when i think of babe, i think of the number 3. he was 3, gehrig was 4 -- like their spots in the lineup.

 

edit: and of course, ruth was the choice for 3.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Azazello1313

[Bill Swerski]

I'd take Ronnie Lott over Jackie Robinson too...but I'm not a baseball person.

 

I'd agree with that. I can't begin to imagine the amount of racist crap that Jackie had to endure, but if we only consider the level of play on the field, I'd take Lott.

[Crazysight]

My bad...Ruth is number 3. For some reason I'd thought Moon was in that spot. I was looking on the right where it said "3 of 33."

Edited July 7, 2007 by Crazysight

[PSULions]

Some Philly arguments:

 

#1: Bernie Parent won two stanley Cups, and is widely considered one of the Top 5 golatenders of all-time. Warren Moon?

#6: tough one to argue against with Bill Russell, but I can't think of the #6, and not think of Dr. J

#20: While Sanders is also tough to argue against, Mike Schmidt was the best third-baseman of all-time

 

I gotta think #6 when I think of Dr. J and loved Mike Schmidt as a kid growing up in PA, so he needs to be mentioned in the arguement for #20. I must disagree with you on 3B, as I think Brooks Robinson another favorite of mine growing up and watching him play for my beloved O's is right up there with Schimdt as the best of all-time.

 

I haven't even seen Brooks listed as someone that deserves mention for #5. The guy was an unbelievable fielder and a great hitter as well.